I don't care if they use the term 'ningen'...

[SuperForteX]

You're really twisting things if you call Saiyans, Namekians, Freeza, and all other alien races 'humans'. I saw a silly post about this on the other DB board, and quite frankly--you guys must know, somewhere deep down inside, how trollishly stupid it sounds claiming that all of these races are considered 'human', because they're described with the term 'ningen'. How assinine.

No. Saiyans are not humans. Neither are Namekians.
Prove to me that they're humans. That's silly.

[Fox666]

What was all that?

Random hated discussion?

[Bussani]

I think Herms made this thread for when this comes up. Even if you think it's asinine, it's worth pointing out that the way Dragon Ball uses the term isn't exactly "normal" in Japanese fiction, kind of like how jinzo'ningen isn't exactly the normal Japanese term for what #17 and #18 are. Dragon Ball's terminology has some quirks.

[nathantheguitarist]

Aliens are people too!

The term you're thinking of is "jin" that's stuck at the end of things. Saiya-jin, Namekusei-jin (I think that's how that's spelled, I use Namekian meself). I've heard that it means "person" in it's usage. So like... Saiya-person/people.

"Ningen" I've seen used only for Jinzou-ningen (Artificial human), in DB anyways. I hear it in One Piece quite a bit. Luffy points out he's a Gomu-ningen, usually translated to "Gum/Rubber human/man" and other people with Devil Fruit powers.

I don't see how you missed this though. I only watch this stuff in Japanese through subtitled translations. I don't actually know, or have made any real effort to learn the language.

[SuperForteX]

And I don't care if it is or not. The story itself differentiates between aliens and humans. How is Yamcha's line about Krillin being the strongest "among humans" worded?

[CatouttaHell]

And I don't care if it is or not. The story itself differentiates between aliens and humans. How is Yamcha's line about Krillin being the strongest "among humans" worded?

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P3.2-3
Marron: “That person dad’s fighting is big and looks strong…I wonder if he’ll be alright?...”
Yamcha: “It’s fine, fine! Someone like that doesn’t matter at all! Your father is the strongest in the world! Among Earthlings…”

[SuperForteX]

So it's Saiyan humans, Namekian humans, Freeza etc are humans. Ginyu's a human. It's not correct. I think we're being misled.

[Kaboom]

No, no, no, it's just a generic term for "person / people." Not necessarily a human/Earthling. I think "Chikyuu-jin" is what's commonly translated as "Earthling" or sometimes "human."

[TripleRach]

This thread is awfully antagonistic. Tone it down.

In a lot of cases I would probably use "humanoid," personally, but it's definitely not wrong to say "human" either. The word "human" doesn't necessarily have to refer solely to the Earthling Homo sapiens race, especially in a fictional universe so altered from our own. Why couldn't it refer to any sentient humanoid race? (On that note, what do they call the regular human people in Star Wars?) And we know Saiyans are genetically compatible with Earthling humans, just like the various breeds of cats. I don't think it's twisting the meaning at all.

For comparison, think of the argument "How can you call him 'God' when he's not the Abrahamic [or other monotheistic] God!?" It's what the word means, and a vastly different fictional universe doesn't necessarily have to follow our rules.

How is Yamcha's line about Krillin being the strongest "among humans" worded?

The line is: 地球人の中じゃね… (Among the Earthlings...). As I recall, pretty much every instance of someone wanting to distinguish Earth humans uses 地球人 Chikyuujin (Earthling).

[Fox666]

Saiyans are humans


Human = Homo sapiens species

Species = "A species is often defined as a group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring" (Wikipedia)

Easy, don't?

I think that saiyans fall under the "race" terminology: "Race is classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypical characteristics or geographic ancestry, but also often influenced by and correlated with traits such as appearance, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status." Wikipedia


And what's the deal with "alien"? Why can't humans live in other planets? There are tons of sci-fi stories about other worlds also populated by mankind.

[SuperForteX]

Saiyans are not humans. Humans have tails and can become Super Saiyan?
Why do Nappa and Vegeta differentiate between a Saiyan-human hybrid and a natural born Saiyan, if Saiyans are humans? This makes zero sense.

It's the mincing of words... ningen, what does it even mean? You're saying it's a literal translation for the word human?

I don't buy this, this is all a farce. Saiyans are not humans, neither is Capt. Ginyu. He's freaking purple and he has horns. There's no human like that.

Humans can't live on other planets?

It's not the same thing.

[Fox666]

Humans have tails

Sometimes in real life

[SuperForteX]

Humans have tails

Sometimes in real life

You're being impossibly difficult right now.

[Bussani]

Like I said, it's also not technically correct that #17, #18, and Cell are called jinzo'ningen. Dragon Ball's terminology can be unusual. Honestly, I'd use "humanoid" in place of human, but it's still worth pointing out, at least.

[SuperForteX]

According to Herm's thread, it's specifically 'human'. Not 'people' or 'humanoids' like Kaboom and Rachel are trying to say. So which is correct?

[Fox666]

I gave you the biological definition of human.

What else do you want?

[SuperForteX]

I gave you the biological definition of human.

What else do you want?

No. You didn't. You combined two definitions together to twist things around.

[Fox666]

Why don't you check the dictionary? It probably will tell you something like "human is the homo sapien species"

Which of course if you don't know what "species" is (which seems to be the case) you won't understand what that means. That's why I told you

[SuperForteX]

So, by your 'logic', Namekians and Humans can mate.

[In Brightest Day]

Humans have tails

Sometimes in real life

You're being impossibly difficult right now.

You can say this without sounding completely hypocritical, how?