Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kaboom]

Now that I think of it though, Gohan didn't actually see Freeza at 100% in the manga, did he?

Gohan didn't "see" Freeza at 100%, no. But he definitely would have sensed him, since he and the others didn't get wished off the planet until LONG after Freeza had powered up. He'd already been fighting Goku for a while at 100% before Shenlong was summoned.

[Zephyr]

Now that I think of it though, Gohan didn't actually see Freeza at 100% in the manga, did he?

Gohan didn't "see" Freeza at 100%, no. But he definitely would have sensed him, since he and the others didn't get wished off the planet until LONG after Freeza had powered up. He'd already been fighting Goku for a while at 100% before Shenlong was summoned.

Ah good point.

[Piccolo Daimao]

What if you take the Jump Special into consideration? Wouldn't that throw off Goten and Trunks' numbers because Abo and Cado were supposed to be about as strong as Freeza while they were consdered a good challenge for the kids?

To most of the known universe, "stronger than Freeza" just means, "a battle power higher than 530,000." So given that Tarble was the one who made that call on Avo and Cado...

Yep. People tend to overlook this fact a LOT. Or maybe just ignore it. I dunno. But there's exactly a 0% chance Tarble was even referring to 4th form Freeza's resting power, let alone his full power. At best he would have known about 2nd form Freeza, and that's it.

I guess because, from a storyline perspective, you would think that he'd be referring to Freeza at his strongest, if you didn't take it at face value and think, "Oh, wait, Tarble's never seen Freeza's full power, has he?"

Kaioshin had never seen Freeza's full power either, but he mentioned that all five Kaioshin could destroy Freeza in blow, and Boo killed all but one, and this surprised Goku. Now, why would Goku be surprised at the fact that someone killed a bunch of guys who could kill some guy with only 530,000? He's going to think of Freeza's full power, and so are we, if we don't pick apart what's behind it and just look at it from a storyline perspective.

[Xyex]

Kaioshin had never seen Freeza's full power either, but he mentioned that all five Kaioshin could destroy Freeza in blow, and Boo killed all but one, and this surprised Goku. Now, why would Goku be surprised at the fact that someone killed a bunch of guys who could kill some guy with only 530,000? He's going to think of Freeza's full power, and so are we, if we don't pick apart what's behind it and just look at it from a storyline perspective.

You have to take things in context when reading or watching a story. That's the entire point of having context. If you don't take things within context you end up with inconsistences and incorrect 'facts' all over the place.

And even if you were to ignore it, it's no more shocking to Goku that someone/thing killed people who could OHKO 100% Freeza than 1st form Freeza. After all, 16, 17, 18, and all forms of Cell could do likewise, and by this point Goku could OHKO them all, and Gohan defeated Super Perfect Cell, who could OHKO Semi-Perfect Cell, who could OHKO Piccolo, who could OHKO Freeza.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Kaioshin had never seen Freeza's full power either, but he mentioned that all five Kaioshin could destroy Freeza in blow, and Boo killed all but one, and this surprised Goku. Now, why would Goku be surprised at the fact that someone killed a bunch of guys who could kill some guy with only 530,000? He's going to think of Freeza's full power, and so are we, if we don't pick apart what's behind it and just look at it from a storyline perspective.

You have to take things in context when reading or watching a story. That's the entire point of having context. If you don't take things within context you end up with inconsistences and incorrect 'facts' all over the place.

And even if you were to ignore it, it's no more shocking to Goku that someone/thing killed people who could OHKO 100% Freeza than 1st form Freeza. After all, 16, 17, 18, and all forms of Cell could do likewise, and by this point Goku could OHKO them all, and Gohan defeated Super Perfect Cell, who could OHKO Semi-Perfect Cell, who could OHKO Piccolo, who could OHKO Freeza.

Storyline perspective, man. Goku's shocked that a guy who could defeat Freeza in one blow (Freeza, the guy that had given SSj Goku an even fight) was defeated by Boo. That loses all impact if we're talking about a 530,000 wimpy-ass Freeza who could be one-shotted by practically anyone in comparison by now. We'd think that Goku's an idiot for being surprised at the fact that this guy hasn't done anything more impressive than beat first-form Freeza. The guy that beat Kaioshin may as well be a lightweight in comparison to Goku and the other heavyweights in the Boo arc. Even Goten could probably blow away Freeza with his pinkie.

[Xyex]

Storyline perspective, man. Goku's shocked that a guy who could defeat Freeza in one blow (Freeza, the guy that had given SSj Goku an even fight) was defeated by Boo. That loses all impact if we're talking about a 530,000 wimpy-ass Freeza who could be one-shotted by practically anyone in comparison by now. We'd think that Goku's an idiot for being surprised at the fact that this guy hasn't done anything more impressive than beat first-form Freeza. The guy that beat Kaioshin may as well be a lightweight in comparison to Goku and the other heavyweights in the Boo arc. Even Goten could probably blow away Freeza with his pinkie.

And my point is, where's the impact with 100% Freeza? What's so much more impressive about that? Everyone who can OHKO 1st Form Freeza can also OHKO 100% Freeza by this point. It makes 0 difference.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Storyline perspective, man. Goku's shocked that a guy who could defeat Freeza in one blow (Freeza, the guy that had given SSj Goku an even fight) was defeated by Boo. That loses all impact if we're talking about a 530,000 wimpy-ass Freeza who could be one-shotted by practically anyone in comparison by now. We'd think that Goku's an idiot for being surprised at the fact that this guy hasn't done anything more impressive than beat first-form Freeza. The guy that beat Kaioshin may as well be a lightweight in comparison to Goku and the other heavyweights in the Boo arc. Even Goten could probably blow away Freeza with his pinkie.

And my point is, where's the impact with 100% Freeza? What's so much more impressive about that? Everyone who can OHKO 1st Form Freeza can also OHKO 100% Freeza by this point. It makes 0 difference.

Freeza's apparently still a big thing, according to Goku. Now, you may say that he could still consider first-form Freeza a big thing, but he's never even fought him in his first form and I have an easier time believing that 100% Freeza is still a big thing as opposed to first-form Freeza.

[Xyex]

So, I decided to make a new 'what-if' list. This one? Kaioken does not exist and SSJ is temporary. You can not learn to change at will. You get it, you use it, you power down, you lose it. SSJ is also only a 10x increase. Anyway, onward, I can explain other odd things as I go.

Oh, and I'm starting with Freeza because pre-Freeza things aren't really much different. Just take Goku's 'safe' Kaioken levels (16k vs Vegeta, and 900k when he arrives on Namek) and consider those his full base power, and that's about it.

-=Freeza Saga=-
-Good-
Krillin - 75,000
Gohan - 175,000
+ Zenkai - 800,000
Vegeta - 230,000
+ Zenkai - 3,000,000
Piccolo - 8,000
+ Fused with Nail - 1,225,000
+ W/out weights - 1,600,000
Goku - 4,000,000
+ Full Power - 10,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 20,000,000
+ SSJ - 100,000,000

-Bad-
Freeza - 530,000
+ 2nd Form - 1,060,000
+ 3rd Form - 2,120,000
+ Final Form - 4,240,000
+ 50% Power - 25,000,000
+ 100% Power - 50,000,000

*Pretty straight forward. Lack of Kaioken means that Goku's base is much larger at this point than in the series (or else Freeza would be much weaker, instead of only slightly). The fight still goes mostly the same, with both Freeza and then SSJ Goku dragging it out for their own reasons, instead of ending it quickly like both are capable of at different times in the battle.

-=History of Trunks=-
~Park Battle~
-Good-
Gohan - 8,000,000
Trunks - 1,580,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 10,000,000
Android 17 - 11,000,000

~Gohan's Death~
-Good-
Gohan - 8,750,000
Trunks - 3,300,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 11,000,000
+ Full Power - 22,000,000
Android 17 - 12,000,000
+ Full Power - 24,000,000

~Bridge Town~
-Good-
Trunks - 9,500,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 11,000,000
Android 17 - 12,000,000

*Gohan hasn't caught up to Goku yet, as per the series. Androids are weaker than Freeza since they're not dealing with SSJs.

-=Trunks Saga=-
-Good-
Trunks - 5
+ Full Power - 9,500,000
Goku - 11,000,000

-Bad-
Soldiers - 800 - 1,200
Cold - 6,800,000
Freeza - 5,000,000
+ Full Power - 60,000,000 (unused)

*First plot change. Trunks doesn't screw around with Freeza. He just kills him, no goofing aound, because he knows Freeza can become stronger than him, here. Otherwise, not much is changed.

-=Android Saga=-
-Good-
Yamcha - 45,000
Tien - 60,000
Krillin - 90,000
Gohan - 750,000
Piccolo - 8,000,000
+ W/out weights - 12,500,000
Goku - 15,000,000
+ Sick - 10,000,000 (and dropping)
+ Post Kamehameha - 7,000,000
Vegeta - 16,000,000
+ Drained - 14,000,000
+ Big Bang Attack - 16,500,000
+ Post BBA - 10,000,000
Trunks - 10,000,000

-Bad-
Android 19 - 8,000,000
+ Goku's Kamehameha - 11,000,000
+ Goku's Energy - 12,000,000
+ Vegeta's Energy - 13,500,000
Android 20 - 10,000,000
+ Yamcha's Energy - 10,040,000
+ Vegeta's Energy Blast - 10,500,000
+ Krillin's Energy - 10,575,000
Android 18 - 22,000,000
Android 17 - 24,000,000
Android 16 - 26,000,000
Cell - 20,000,000

*No SSJ means higher base levels than I'd normally put here. Not only to contend with the powers, but because Zenkais are still around/effective.

-=Cell Saga=-
-Good-
Piccolo - 12,500,000
+ Fused with Kami - 25,000,000
Vegeta - 44,000,000
+ Final Flash - 53,000,000
Trunks - 42,000,000
+ Full power - 50,000,000
-Bad-
Android 18 - 22,000,000
Android 17 - 24,000,000
Android 16 - 26,000,000
Cell - 20,000,000
+ Piccolo's Energy - 21,000,000
+ Humans - 25,000,000
+ Semi-Perfect - 37,000,000
+ Perfect - 80,000,000
+ Full Power (buff) - 300,000,000

*Piccolo, sadly, gets left in the dust from here. Zenkai abusing Saiya-jins can outstrip him pretty easily. Again, not much different here, though Trunks is not stronger than Cell in this. No SSJ means no SSJU means no speed loss. So Trunks has to stay under Cell. Trunks still hides his true power from Vegeta, though, until his father is KOed. Also, we're finally matching/surpassing Freeza. XD

-=Cell Games=-
-Good-
Piccolo - 30,000,000
Vegeta - 62,500,000
Trunks - 62,000,000
Goku - 75,000,000
+ Warp Kamehameha - 90,000,000
+ Tired - 60,000,000
Gohan - 90,000,000
+ SSJ - 900,000,000
+ Injured - 375,000,000
+ Injured (Determined) - 720,000,000
+ FSK - 880,000,000
+ Injured Full Power - 860,000,000
+ FSK Full Power - 1,250,000,000

-Bad-
Cell - 80,000,000
+ Full Power - 150,000,000
+ Buff - 300,000,000
+ Super Perfect - 600,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 900,000,000

*Cell games is about he same, only without perma-SSJs or SSJ2. Instead of SSJ2, Gohan goes SSJ. Perfect Cell is a LOT stronger than his previous forms (mainly because I wanted SSJ Gohan here, without him being massively stronger than Cell).

-=Return to the Future=-
-Good-
Trunks - 62,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 11,000,000
Android 17 - 12,000,000
+ Full Power - 24,000,000

-=Future Cell=-
-Good-
Trunks - 70,000,000

-Bad-
Cell - 20,000,000

*Future stuff with Trunks, not really much different here. He just deals with the Androids and Cell without transforming is all.

-=Budokai=-
-Good-
Krillin - 70,000
Goten - 15,000,000
Trunks - 16,000,000
Android 18 - 22,000,000
Piccolo - 42,000,000
Kibito - 13,000,000
Kaioshin - 75,000,000
Gohan - 80,000,000

-Bad-
Yamu - 11
Spoppovitch - 12

*Piccolo's a little stronger, Gohan's weaker, and Kaioshin is strong enough to one-shot Freeza, as per the series.

-=Majin Saga=-
-Good-
Shin - 75,000,000
Gohan - 80,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 120,000,000
Vegeta - 150,000,000
+ Majin - 500,000,000
Goku - 180,000,000
+ Powered-up - 500,000,000
+ Full Power - 750,000,000

-Bad-
Pui Pui - 12,000,000
Yakon - 60,000,000
Dabura - 100,000,000
Majin Buu - 150,000,000
+ Powered-up - 325,000,000
+ Full Power - 650,000,000

*The Dabura/Cell comparison is to the Cell that Goku fought (only way to make it logically work in this). Goku's gained a LOT of power while dead. Vegeta's tried to, and has gotten much stronger, but not nearly to Goku's extent. Goku simply holds back his full power against Vegeta as opposed to holding back a tranformation.

-=Fusion Saga ~ Part 1=-
-Good-
Goten - 15,000,000
Trunks - 16,000,000
Gotenks - 450,000,000

-Bad-
Majin Buu - 650,000,000

*Dance Fusion is Weakest x 30.

-=Fusion Saga ~ Part 2=-
-Good-
Kibito - 13,000,000
Shin - 75,000,000
Kibitoshin - 352,000,000
Goten - 32,000,000
Trunks - 33,000,000
Gotenks - 960,000,000
Ultimate Gohan - 1,600,000,000
Vegeta - 500,000,000
Goku - 750,000,000
Vegetto - 5,000,000,000
+ SSJ - 50,000,000,000

-Bad-
Majin Buu - 650,000,000
Mr. Buu - 280,000,000
Skinny Buu - 370,000,000
+ Super Buu - 1,200,000,000
+ Super Buu2 - 2,202,000,000
+ Super Buu1.5 - 1,307,000,000
+ Super Buu3 - 2,907,000,000
Kid Buu - 800,000,000

*Potara Fusion is A + B x 4. Not much progressionally different here than in the series, either. Toei must have borrowed this Vegetto for their anime filler, though. Base Vegetto completely outclasses Buu. SSJ (Potara magic allows him to access it at will) is just adding insult to injury.

-=Kid Buu Saga=-
-Good-
Mr. Buu - 280,000,000
Vegeta - 500,000,000
Goku - 750,000,000
+ Spirit Bomb - 1,000,000,000
+ Goku Pushing - 1,700,000,000

-Bad-
Kid Buu - 800,000,000
+ Full Power - 950,000,000

*Ending is unchanged. I considered having Vegeta go SSJ (and boosting Buu's maximum by 1,000,000,000 to make it required for winning) instead of the Spirit Bomb plan, but it seemed to contrived so, I left it as was.

-=10 Years Later=-
Pan - 18,000,000
Goten - 20,000,000
Trunks - 21,000,000
Mr. Buu - 280,000,000
Vegeta - 780,000,000
Goku - 900,000,000
Uub - 1,000,000
+ Angry - 300,000,000
Ultimate Gohan - 1,400,000,000

*Gohan's weaker, Goku and Vegta are stronger. Not much else to say. XD

[Kaboom]

Sooo... here's one more slight revision to my list. It's still mostly based on the numbers from that chart I liked so much, but with some tweaks here and there to my liking. Not a big deal, except that it'll be what certain other things are based on later. So I figured I should/could post it for reference.

• Super Saiyan - 50x Base
  Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 75x Base
  Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 125x Base
  Super Saiyan 2 - 100x Base
  Super Saiyan 3 - 400x Base

TRUNKS

Mecha Freeza - 10,000,000

• Full Power - 135,000,000

King Cold - 90,000,000

Trunks - 3,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 150,000,000

Son Goku - 3,300,000

• Super Saiyan - 165,000,000

ANDROIDS

Son Goku - 4,500,000

• Super Saiyan - 225,000,000
  Sick - 150,000,000
  Sick and Drained - 50,000,000

Vegeta - 5,000,000
Super Saiyan - 250,000,000
Drained - 60,000,000

Trunks - 3,500,000

• Super Saiyan - 175,000,000

Piccolo - 100,000,000

• Merged with Kami - 300,000,000

Android 19 - 40,000,000

• + Absorbed Ki - 60,000,000

Android 20 - 70,000,000

• + Absorbed Ki - 85,000,000

Android 16 - 400,000,000
Android 17 - 295,000,000
Android 18 - 275,000,000

CELL

Imperfect Cell - 150,000,000

• Humans Absorbed - 400,000,000

Semiperfect Cell - 600,000,000

• Powered Up - 750,000,000

Perfect Cell - 900,000,000
Vs Vegeta & Trunks - 1,300,000,000


Vegeta - 14,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 700,000,000
  Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 1,000,000,000

Trunks - 12,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 600,000,000
  Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 900,000,000
  Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 1,500,000,000

CELL GAMES

Perfect Cell - 2,500,000,000

• Full Power - 4,000,000,000
  Bulked Up - 6,000,000,000
  Super Perfect - 5,000,000,000

Son Goku - 40,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 2,000,000,000

Son Gohan - 50,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 2,500,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2- 5,000,000,000
  Angry SSj2 - 6,000,000,000
  Injured - 3,000,000,000

Vegeta - 30,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 1,500,000,000

Trunks - 25,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 1,250,000,000

Piccolo - 750,000,000

Yamcha - 25,000
Tenshinhan - 50,000
Kuririn - 85,000


MAJIN BOO

Son Gohan - 40,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 2,000,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 4,000,000,000
  Ultimate - 40,000,000,000

Vegeta - 50,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 2,500,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 5,000,000,000
  Majin SSj2 - 6,000,000,000

Son Goku - 60,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 3,000,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 6,000,000,000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 24,000,000,000

Piccolo - 1,000,000,000

Son Goten - 7,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 350,000,000

Trunks - 8,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 400,000,000

Android 18 - 275,000,000

Kaioshin - 1,500,000,000

• Merged - 3,000,000,000

Kibito - 50,000,000

Pui Pui - 500,000
Yakon - 80,000,000
Dabra - 2,000,000,000

Gotenks - 80,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 4,000,000,000
  (Super Saiyan 2 - 8,000,000,000)
  Super Saiyan 3 - 32,000,000,000

Fat Boo - 10,000,000,000
Mister Boo - 4,000,000,000
Pure Evil Boo - 6,000,000,000
Evil Boo - 30,000,000,000

• + Gotenks - 65,000,000,000
  + Piccolo - 32,000,000,000
  + Gohan - 75,000,000,000

"Buff" Boo - 35,000,000,000
Pure Boo - 20,000,000,000

Super Vegetto - HOLY $#!%


... That just about covers everything, I think.

So, I've said this about like 3 different "tweaked" incarnations now, but these Boo-arc numbers should end up being what I base GTR's power levels on. But in addition, they're going to be used as a foundation for something even better, that people will actually care about! Here's a preview...

MOVIE 1 - "I WANT MY GOHAN BACK, GOHAN BACK, GOHAN BACK~"
"Thank Dende we'll never see this Garlic guy again, right...?"

Son Goku - 475
Piccolo - 450
Kuririn - 206
Kami - 220
Son Gohan - 1

• Okay to Drive - 0.15 BAC
  I CAN QUIT ANY TIME I WANT - 1400

Minuteman "Grumpy" Garlic - 1776
Grandpa Garlic - 150
Garlic Senior - 250
Garlic Junior - 200

• Bulked Up - 800

Nicky - 165

• Bulked Up - 260

Ginger - 185

• Bulked Up - 280

Sansho - 175

• Bulked Up - 270

That's right, I'm re-making the Movies power levels list I made back way yonder in the early pages of the thread, complete with a bunch of new numbers and all-new jokes! Should be ready in a few days.

[Xyex]

Gotenks - 80,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 4,000,000,000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 32,000,000,000
  SSj3 "Combat Level" - 25,000,000

Now that is a power drain.

[Kaboom]

Now that is a power drain.

D'oh! Fixed.

[Rocketman]

*Potara Fusion is A + B x 4. Not much progressionally different here than in the series, either. Toei must have borrowed this Vegetto for their anime filler, though. Base Vegetto completely outclasses Buu. SSJ (Potara magic allows him to access it at will) is just adding insult to injury.

I'm picturing the moment where Vegetto explodes into Super Saiyan at will, the transformation under total control for the first time in the series....

It's a good feeling. Mmm...

[Xyex]

*Potara Fusion is A + B x 4. Not much progressionally different here than in the series, either. Toei must have borrowed this Vegetto for their anime filler, though. Base Vegetto completely outclasses Buu. SSJ (Potara magic allows him to access it at will) is just adding insult to injury.

I'm picturing the moment where Vegetto explodes into Super Saiyan at will, the transformation under total control for the first time in the series....

It's a good feeling. Mmm...

Haha. I had a feeling you'd have no problems with that Vegetto.

And I'd say, in that universe, SSJ control makes Vegetto the Legendary Super Saiya-jin~

Edit
So, looking over that list again I realized there's no reason to have Goku get 10x stronger in 7 years when Vegeta's only 2.4x stronger. The gap's supposed to be big between them, but that's kind of aburdly big. I think it's because I was factoring in what the differential would have been had SSJ3 existed, but without the transformation it's really not needed. So, I did some redesigning of the Buu era powers, and they came out pretty interesting.

-=Budokai=-
-Good-
Krillin - 70,000
Goten - 15,000,000
Trunks - 16,000,000
Android 18 - 22,000,000
Piccolo - 42,000,000
Kibito - 13,000,000
Kaioshin - 75,000,000
Gohan - 80,000,000

-Bad-
Yamu - 11
Spoppovitch - 12

*No changes here.

-=Majin Saga=-
-Good-
Shin - 75,000,000
Gohan - 80,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 120,000,000
Vegeta - 150,000,000
+ Majin - 250,000,000
Goku - 180,000,000
+ Powered-up - 250,000,000
+ Full Power - 350,000,000

-Bad-
Pui Pui - 12,000,000
Yakon - 60,000,000
Dabura - 100,000,000
Majin Buu - 100,000,000
+ Powered-up - 200,000,000
+ Full Power - 300,000,000

*Nerfed Goku to 350 million (4x increase over Vegeta's 2.4x. Definitely significant enough for Vegeta to decide to go Majin). Buu's also been nerfed to 300 million. The 180 million level for Goku is what he uses to defeat Yakon.

-=Fusion Saga ~ Part 1=-
-Good-
Goten - 15,000,000
Trunks - 16,000,000
Gotenks - 225,000,000

-Bad-
Majin Buu - 300,000,000

*Dance fusion is now weakest x15

-=Fusion Saga ~ Part 2=-
-Good-
Kibito - 13,000,000
Shin - 75,000,000
Kibitoshin - 352,000,000
Goten - 32,000,000
Trunks - 33,000,000
Gotenks - 480,000,000
Ultimate Gohan - 750,000,000
Vegeta - 250,000,000
Goku - 350,000,000
Vegetto - 3,000,000,000
+ SSJ - 30,000,000,000

-Bad-
Majin Buu - 300,000,000
Mr. Buu - 130,000,000
Skinny Buu - 170,000,000
+ Super Buu - 550,000,000
+ Super Buu2 - 1,072,000,000
+ Super Buu1.5 - 657,000,000
+ Super Buu3 - 1,407,000,000
Kid Buu - 400,000,000

*Aside from nerfing powers, the only change is to Potara Fusion. It's now A+Bx5 (I wanted a rounded number for Vegetto). I do like that no one breaks a billion until Super Buu2.

-=Kid Buu Saga=-
-Good-
Mr. Buu - 130,000,000
Vegeta - 250,000,000
Goku - 350,000,000
+ Spirit Bomb - 550,000,000
+ Goku Pushing - 900,000,000

-Bad-
Kid Buu - 400,000,000
+ Full Power - 500,000,000

*Again, unchanged but for power nerfs. I kind of like that fact that Kid Buu, who Kaioshin fears so much, is actually weaker than Super Perfect Cell and Cell Games SSJ Gohan.

-=10 Years Later=-
Pan - 18,000,000
Goten - 20,000,000
Trunks - 21,000,000
Mr. Buu - 130,000,000
Vegeta - 480,000,000
Goku - 600,000,000
Uub - 1,000,000
+ Angry - 250,000,000
Ultimate Gohan - 600,000,000

*No changes but power nerfs here, either.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I'm surprised that you gave Super Saiyan 3rd Grade a bigger multiplier than Super Saiyan 2, Kaboom. Not criticizing you or anything, it's just interesting to see and a change from the norm. But could I ask why?

[Xyex]

Made a few minor adjustments to the Freeza and Android saga powers on my No Kaioken/temp SSJ list. SSJ Goku on Namek being stronger than Kaioshin was kind of annoying me. So, I serfed the SSJ increase. 5x now, instead of 10x. I nerfed Cell's power to compensate, boosted Piccolo a little in a few places because I thought I had him a little too low, that sort of thing. Not going to bother noting anything for each section this time, it's largely the same as before, just slightly tweaked.

At least Super Perfect Cell is weaker than Kid Buu now. XD

-=Freeza Saga=-
-Good-
Krillin - 75,000
Gohan - 175,000
+ Zenkai - 800,000
Vegeta - 230,000
+ Zenkai - 3,000,000
Piccolo - 8,000
+ Fused with Nail - 1,225,000
+ W/out weights - 1,600,000
Goku - 4,000,000
+ Full Power - 10,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 15,000,000
+ SSJ - 50,000,000

-Bad-
Freeza - 530,000
+ 2nd Form - 1,060,000
+ 3rd Form - 2,120,000
+ Final Form - 4,240,000
+ 50% Power - 20,000,000
+ 100% Power - 40,000,000

-=History of Trunks=-
~Park Battle~
-Good-
Gohan - 7,000,000
Trunks - 3,600,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 10,000,000
Android 17 - 11,000,000

~Gohan's Death~
-Good-
Gohan - 8,750,000
Trunks - 4,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 11,000,000
+ Full Power - 22,000,000
Android 17 - 12,000,000
+ Full Power - 24,000,000

~Bridge Town~
-Good-
Trunks - 9,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 11,000,000
Android 17 - 12,000,000

-=Trunks Saga=-
-Good-
Trunks - 5
+ Full Power - 10,000,000
Goku - 11,500,000

-Bad-
Soldiers - 800 - 1,200
Cold - 6,800,000
Freeza - 5,000,000
+ Full Power - 60,000,000 (unused)

-=Android Saga=-
-Good-
Yamcha - 45,000
Tenshinhan - 60,000
Krillin - 90,000
Gohan - 750,000
Piccolo - 8,000,000
+ W/out weights - 12,500,000
Goku - 15,000,000
+ Sick - 10,000,000 (and dropping)
+ Post Kamehameha - 7,000,000
Vegeta - 16,000,000
+ Drained - 14,000,000
+ Big Bang Attack - 16,500,000
+ Post BBA - 10,000,000
Trunks - 10,500,000

-Bad-
Android 19 - 8,000,000
+ Goku's Kamehameha - 11,000,000
+ Goku's Energy - 12,000,000
+ Vegeta's Energy - 13,500,000
Android 20 - 10,000,000
+ Yamcha's Energy - 10,040,000
+ Vegeta's Energy Blast - 10,500,000
+ Krillin's Energy - 10,575,000
Android 18 - 22,000,000
Android 17 - 24,000,000
Android 16 - 26,000,000
Cell - 20,000,000

-=Cell Saga=-
-Good-
Piccolo - 12,500,000
+ Fused with Kami - 25,000,000
Vegeta - 44,000,000
+ Final Flash - 53,000,000
Trunks - 42,000,000
+ Full power - 50,000,000
-Bad-
Android 18 - 22,000,000
Android 17 - 24,000,000
Android 16 - 26,000,000
Cell - 20,000,000
+ Piccolo's Energy - 21,000,000
+ Humans - 25,000,000
+ Semi-Perfect - 37,000,000
+ Perfect - 80,000,000
+ Full Power (buff) - 180,000,000

-=Cell Games=-
-Good-
Piccolo - 40,000,000
Vegeta - 62,500,000
Trunks - 62,000,000
Goku - 75,000,000
+ Warp Kamehameha - 90,000,000
+ Tired - 60,000,000
Gohan - 90,000,000
+ SSJ - 450,000,000
+ Injured - 200,000,000
+ Injured (Determined) - 320,000,000
+ FSK - 400,000,000
+ Injured Full Power - 400,000,000
+ FSK Full Power - 550,000,000

-Bad-
Cell - 80,000,000
+ Full Power - 120,000,000
+ Buff - 180,000,000
+ Super Perfect - 360,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 450,000,000

-=Return to the Future=-
-Good-
Trunks - 62,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 11,000,000
Android 17 - 12,000,000
+ Full Power - 24,000,000

-=Future Cell=-
-Good-
Trunks - 70,000,000

-Bad-
Cell - 20,000,000

[Saimaroimaru]

I'm surprised that you gave Super Saiyan 3rd Grade a bigger multiplier than Super Saiyan 2, Kaboom. Not criticizing you or anything, it's just interesting to see and a change from the norm. But could I ask why?

Yeah, I always thought they gave the same power up except Super Saiyan 2 didn't slow the user down with bulk.

[Kaboom]

I'm surprised that you gave Super Saiyan 3rd Grade a bigger multiplier than Super Saiyan 2, Kaboom. Not criticizing you or anything, it's just interesting to see and a change from the norm. But could I ask why?

Well the main reason was because the Vegeta-Cell-Trunks gaps all had to be fairly large, and keeping Grade 3's boost under that of Super Saiyan 2 wasn't cutting it.

But furthermore, I thought it seemed appropriate and possible, given how Grade 3 over-emphasizes raw power to such an extreme and counter-productive degree. So Grade 3 may grant more power, but kills speed in the process so it's horribly useless, compared to a proper Super Saiyan 2 which is much more balanced and improves upon every category.

And wait 'til you see the boosts for Broly in this new movies list, since I treat "Legendary" Super Saiyan as like a Grade 4...

[Piccolo Daimao]

I'm surprised that you gave Super Saiyan 3rd Grade a bigger multiplier than Super Saiyan 2, Kaboom. Not criticizing you or anything, it's just interesting to see and a change from the norm. But could I ask why?

Well the main reason was because the Vegeta-Cell-Trunks gaps all had to be fairly large, and keeping Grade 3's boost under that of Super Saiyan 2 wasn't cutting it.

But furthermore, I thought it seemed appropriate and possible, given how Grade 3 over-emphasizes raw power to such an extreme and counter-productive degree. So Grade 3 may grant more power, but kills speed in the process so it's horribly useless, compared to a proper Super Saiyan 2 which is much more balanced and improves upon every category.

And wait 'til you see the boosts for Broly in this new movies list, since I treat "Legendary" Super Saiyan as like a Grade 4...

OK, fair enough.

[Xyex]

Yeah, I've done it before (a few ways). Having SSJU2 stronger than SSJ2 often makes things with Cell flow a lot easier. Trunks was certainly a fair amount stronger than Cell at that point, it's even possible his SSJU2 was stronger than Goku's MSSJ level, so a higher increase for it makes sense.

[Senzu_Bean]

I believe no one as done anything like this before regarding battle powers and whatnot.


Click here for larger version.

Any criticism about the battle powers themselves will be entirely discredit, so don't bother to post about them. The other story arcs will probably be included later. Thoughts?