What's everyone's problem with the English music?

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Rory
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by Rory » Sat May 28, 2011 2:37 pm

I like some of Faulconers tracks, I've admitted this several times on this board.
However, it simply doesn't fit within the context of the show. Dragon Ball is a martial arts shows (which eventually gets sci-fi elements incorporated into it), and the flat SNES sounding music just feels.. off, like it's not really meant to be there.
Unless you're talking about FUNimation's attempt to put real rock music into the movies, in which case, that's just absolute shit. :)

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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by DBZ Mick » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:30 am

I don't mind Faulconer's score. In fact I like various pieces of it.

But it just doesn't fit Dragonball. Like how the dub scripts completley change characters from the original Japanese.
It is in his character to be rude and a bit crass. He's a hick, with no formal education. That is Son Goku. That is who he is.

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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by DragonBoxZTheMovies » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:53 am

I love it in the Cell and Buu arcs, but in the Android and Freeza arcs there's only one or two good themes. The rest of the time it sounds like this:
Hmmmmmmmm, dun, dun, dun, da, da, da, doo, dee, dee dee, dum, dun, dun, dun, hmmmmmmmm
Mark Menza was good in the movies, but in GT he put me to sleep. Same goes for Nathan Johnson. I love his work in DBZ Movie 13, and to a lesser extent in Movie 12 (although strangely on my 'Double Features' the composer was credited as Mark Menza) , but in the 'Ultimate Uncut' and the redubs of the first three movies it just sounded like random background noise which was there for the sake of having music.
Funnily enough, I love Kikuchi up until the Buu arc where they stop using my favourite themes.

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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:19 pm

Sorry to revive this topic, but it's an interesting question and to discuss with others.

I initially completely detested the English music for some odd reason, probably because I grew up with the original but after giving them a chance I've realized how awesome they were too.

It's just too bad Nathan's and Faulconer Productions music was used on an English dub that wasn't taken seriously or even decently good. Not to forget there were very little dialogue only moments, most of the time's just non-stop music (not bad but silent scenes would've been nice).

Between Nathan Johnson and Faulconer Productions (4 guys), I'd choose over NJ's music because I like his BGMs overall (despite the silentness in them). There's also Menza (US) and Shuki/Kussa (Canda).

Nostalgia's the problem with some people, I'd say.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:25 pm

I suppose I haven't posted in this thread yet, so I'll attempt to write a response now. Basically, a lot of what has been said so far. Firstly, silence. All of the English music lacks real moments of silence. Silence can really help with emotional scenes, and they can oft be ruined by music playing in the background that never shuts the fuck up. The biggest moments of silence are always a few short seconds between songs. The Faulconer Productions music also sounds too electronic and synthesized, almost like Super Nintendo music at times. However, an even bigger issue is mis-interpreted scenes, and this does sometimes happen. People often say how much better Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation was with the Faulconer Productions music. I highly disagree. The dub music paints this as "awesome! whoa! look how awesome and strong Goku is", while the Japanese music gives a more hectic, tense feel. As in, the world is shaking, Kaio is yelling at Goku to stop, and it really just gives the impression that Goku shouldn't be doing this, and something horribly wrong might happen. The later Ocean dub version fares somewhat better than the Faulconer version, in my opinion, as it has a little more of that "unstableness" to it. The original Super Saiyan transformation fared better than the SS3 transformation, but I still think it's a little too much "look how awesome Goku is" and not quite enough "look how angry Goku is". The scene when Trunks killed Frieza was handled well until Frieza says "when I get my hands on y-", then I just don't know what happened there. Supposedly Heroic Trunks was originally intended to be played there, which in my opinion, fits much better. Obviously doesn't hold a candle to Battle Point Unlimited, but doesn't stand up too poorly on its own. I used to somewhat like the Nathan Johnson score, but as I've watched scenes with it, it's really bad. I like it better than Menza and Levy/Wasserman/Saban/Whoeverthefuckitis, but that's not saying much. The Menza music honestly reminds me a bit of elevator music at times, and during many scenes goes way too overboard on the "cool/harcore" factor. The Johnson, and more so the Levy score, seems to just drone on and on. At least Faulconer has some style and variation to it. I watched the filler episode where Chiaotzu, Kurilin, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha go to fight the false Saiyans on Planet Vegeta (episode 17, dub title "Pendulum Room Peril", original title "City of No Tomorrow! The Long Road to Victory"), and literally nothing seemed to be happening, from what I remember. Literally, it was just noise that went on the whole episode, no matter what was going on. I've heard the Johnson score is better for movies 12 and 13 (or is it 11 and 12?), but I haven't had a chance to check that out yet. And yeah, there's also the principle that it's replacement music, which automatically makes it lose some points no matter how good it is.
In a nutshell, misinterpreted scenes, little silence, too synthetic.
That all being said, I'd one day like to watch the series at least once with the Faulconer music, so I may pick up the singles one day to do just that.
Something I forgot. The rock music used in the movies and specials is absolute garbage and have no place there at all. From what little I've heard of the Peter Berring score, it's not too bad.

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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:39 am

I don't hate it, I like it actually (some even more than a good chuck of the original soundtrack) but my major gripe is that it almost never stops playing and it gets annoying and repetitive after a while. I mean they played a peaceful song when Kuririn and Gohan got domed by the Androids in Goku's Nightmare.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by InfernalVegito » Tue May 01, 2012 1:16 am

I can't really say so much about it as I've never watched the entire anime with the English music. But as others already said the first thing I noticed was that it just never stopped. It kept going and going, mostly with themes that seem so unfitting in certain scenes. Nonetheless it has some themes I really love (Perfect Cell's theme, that plays when he knocks out Krillin after he transformed as well as the fast-paced theme that often plays in the fight between Super Boo and Super Vegetto).

And I don't even want to talk about the GT replacement score. Gosh it was the most boring score I've ever heard. Obnoxious, unfitting and utterly boring. Not a single theme was able to stuck in my head because of its catchiness. No it was just a chore to watch the show like that.

Kikuchi's and especially Tokunaga's scores are beyond amazing because almost every theme is immediately recognizable and it has so much diversity. At one point it is mysterious, foreshadowing and at the other it is fast-paced and triumphant. I think the orchestra is the reason for this.

All in all I don't hate it nor do I love it (despite some themes) but in the end I would always prefer the original score.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by Fionordequester » Wed May 02, 2012 2:19 am

I mean they played a peaceful song when Kuririn and Gohan got domed by the Androids in Goku's Nightmare.
Agreed. That, in my mind, is definitely in a top 10 list of the most hilariously bad music placement in the FUNI dub. Although, to be fair, they did actually go back and fix that particular scene...

http://www.viddler.com/v/21d87424

Also, is it just me, or is Goku's ending scream probably the most chilling scream he's ever given? It's like he's completely reached his breaking point.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by cRookie_Monster » Wed May 02, 2012 11:02 am

Fionordequester wrote:
I mean they played a peaceful song when Kuririn and Gohan got domed by the Androids in Goku's Nightmare.
Agreed. That, in my mind, is definitely in a top 10 list of the most hilariously bad music placement in the FUNI dub. Although, to be fair, they did actually go back and fix that particular scene...

http://www.viddler.com/v/21d87424

Also, is it just me, or is Goku's ending scream probably the most chilling scream he's ever given? It's like he's completely reached his breaking point.
What I remember was some other action music that was written specifically for that scene. It was wayyyy too cartoony and matched to the movements for a dream sequence imho. The funny thing is I had originally edited in music using the same music as in the link above before another composer went in wrote custom music for the scene. Evan Jones at Funimation eventually reedited the scene the same way I had, leaving only that bit of technoish music for Trunks at 2:15. Later on I talked to Evan and found out the reedit had been his work. I complimented him, telling him I had done the same thing he had originally ^^

AFAIKnew the version in the link is what originally aired. The version with all the action music came later when they lost all of Evan's old work for the remasters. The newer releases use the original score the way we shipped it to Funimation, ie the action music for the dream sequence.


Edit: Yeah here's the music composed specifically for that scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzRdwpv0W9U
Evan and I pretty much hated it...except for the Trunks riff he kept ^^

This is the bed Evan and I favored:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyDfR7jdYEI
That's a mix match of old pieces and new stuff I put together for a different dream sequence.
Last edited by cRookie_Monster on Wed May 02, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by MCDaveG » Wed May 02, 2012 11:59 am

I can't speak for US viewers but, I grew up on German and French dub featuring the Kikuchi score, same as the Japanese version have..... Being years familiar with this score, you stumble upon a video or episode of the US version, where goes sampled guitar and synthesizers for 20 minutes of footage, without a break and with melodies you can't even imagine, as you were familiar with the Japanese format.
So first thing is shock and the second is: ''What the fuck is that?!''

I can imagine, that it must be upside down situation for US fans as you don't see an text in the beginning of the show ''Please, mind that this is the replacement score, not the original'' and then you buy Dragon Box and ''DUH!''.

Simply US music doesn't work for me in the series more so because of no silence gaps, but I kinda like it and take it as separate format as it was on the Faulconer's released soundtracks. It's not a bad music as standalone.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by Akumaito Beam » Wed May 02, 2012 6:27 pm

Looking back at some of the older news posts when season 3 episodes were first coming out I'm amazed to see how much hate there was for the BFP score. I don't particularly care for it as a thing but compared to what came before it I can't help but to feel it was a major upgrade which is saying something in a sea of drastic downgrades. I watched the final two Recoome episodes last night followed by the first two season 3 episodes and if you asked me to name ANY music from those Saban era episodes I absolutely couldn't. While this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7lBZ8oKzYk&feature=plcp and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STAQuOkfM4g might not be great, they do convey some sort of emotion as opposed to "dull fan humming".

Did the BFP music got kicked in the shin vicariously because the rest of the season 3 switch was so terrible? (Like laughably terrible, if you haven't already go watch two or three Saban episodes and then season 3 and tell me it doesn't sound like some Youtube kid's poorly done fandub complete with first take line deliveries.)

I know this seems tangentially related to the topic at best but doing that minor viewing experiment last night kind of changed my perception on the old dub score. I still don't love it but hearing the Shevy stuff and the BFP stuff have such similar problems (non-stop playing and wacky mickey mousing being two of my most hated) yet BFP doing something a lot more enjoyable really gets across the point of trying to work within the confines of being told what to do and how much lemonade you can squeeze out of that.

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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by Attitudefan » Wed May 02, 2012 9:19 pm

I still don't hear any "peaceful" part in the nightmare sequence music. All I hear is suspense music.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by Fionordequester » Wed May 02, 2012 11:06 pm

You're forgetting though, that what I posted was an alternate version of the scene after Evan Jones fixed it up. This is the scene in it's original form (well, besides being a dub clip) right here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkvJECN4SgE

It differs at around the point where 17# kills Krillin and Gohan.
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Re: What's everyone's problem with the English music?

Post by Attitudefan » Thu May 03, 2012 12:57 am

I see it now. Yeah, I prefer the fixed version. I mean, to of your buddies just died, one was your son, and you hear a very calm theme.

The song is different when Chi Chi Dies as well. The whole part where everyone dies has a much darker piece in it than in the unaltered version. The unaltered version has a lot of brass fanfare which is not present in the singles version of the nightmare.
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