Why didn't Yamcha ever surpass Tenshinhan or Kuririn?

[Xyex]

The invisible post glitch strikes again. (But not me this time!)

I could only find myself siding with her if there was any real evidence that Yamucha ever cheated on her. As it is, I find the accusation completely laughable. And considering that Toriyama even threw in a line where Yamucha gets all giddy about starting a family with Bulma, I find it hard not to believe that Toriyama didn't find the idea laughable too. "Yes, yes, I know. I'm screwing over Yamucha. But it's just because I really, really need Bulma to become breeding stock for the next blonde-haired super warrior. I know. It doesn't really make sense. And I'm really very sorry." *insert drawing of Toriyama on his knees with the sunglasses and surgical mask, sheepishly scratching the back of his head*

HA HA, yeah I can see that

That's one thing I hated though, Yamcha was, in my eyes, was a good fighter. Krillin was a joke AND he was younger but still kept up with Yamcha! It doesn't help that randomly this evil alien creature, who Bulma despised, is now a freakin' father. Way to kill to characters with one stone! -.-

Yamcha should get better recognition, he mastered the Kamehameha, which Krillin never did (according to the Budokai manuals at least. Doubt that's valid though but still relevant to the argument, which still stands)

Krillin mastered the Kamehameha (before Yamcha, I believe).

[Attitudefan]

Nope, he never did. He practised a little when fighting Chioutzu. He saw Yamcha did it so he wanted to try it next, but Roshi states he hasn't really mastered it (paraphrase)

[Michsi]

Nope, he never did. He practised a little when fighting Chioutzu. He saw Yamcha did it so he wanted to try it next, but Roshi states he hasn't really mastered it (paraphrase)

Doesn't he also use it against Goku? It was only to distract him, but he could use.

Edit: He also uses it against Ma Jr. and it seemed pretty powerful

[Attitudefan]

Nope, he never did. He practised a little when fighting Chioutzu. He saw Yamcha did it so he wanted to try it next, but Roshi states he hasn't really mastered it (paraphrase)

Doesn't he also use it against Goku? It was only to distract him, but he could use.

Edit: He also uses it against Ma Jr. and it seemed pretty powerful

And Yamcha created his own new technique in where Krillin did not. I think during this time, Yamcha was very serious about fighting.

[Michsi]

Nope, he never did. He practised a little when fighting Chioutzu. He saw Yamcha did it so he wanted to try it next, but Roshi states he hasn't really mastered it (paraphrase)

Doesn't he also use it against Goku? It was only to distract him, but he could use.

Edit: He also uses it against Ma Jr. and it seemed pretty powerful

And Yamcha created his own new technique in where Krillin did not. I think during this time, Yamcha was very serious about fighting.

Krillin did have his own thechnique. It isn't named, but it's the one that he first uses on Ma. Jr. the double beams thaty can apparently follow the target.


Personally , I think they are about the same level at that time.

[Attitudefan]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one!

Same level exactly I presume. Maybe a personal bias, but I believe at this point Yamcha was the stronger.

[dbgtFO]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one!

Same level exactly I presume. Maybe a personal bias, but I believe at this point Yamcha was the stronger.

It is pretty biased, when Krillin is shown as superior to Yamcha after the 5 years timeskip making it more than likely, that he was at the 23rd TB as well.

[In Brightest Day]

The only point I can remember it even being suggested that Yamcha may be stronger than Kuririn is at the 22nd Budokai. Otherwise it's pretty fair to assume Krillin was stronger throughout the rest of the series. I think they were pretty close for a good portion of it, though (up until the K-dogs upgrade on Namek).

[dbgtFO]

At the 22nd Budokai, they are roughly the same in power, Krillin states something like that after Goku beats Panputto.

[Bussani]

Krillin mastered the Kamehameha (before Yamcha, I believe).

Yamcha had already mastered the Kamehameha during the 22nd tournament...or at least mastered it enough for Kame'sennin to not comment about it. Kuririn saw him do it and went, "Well if he can do it, I must be able to!" Kame'sennin then commented that Kuririn's hastily thrown together Kamehameha would be no match for Chaozu's Dodonpa. I think it's a bit of a jump to say that Kuririn never mastered the technique, though.

[Titan]

And both Kuririn and Tenshinhan declined training with Goku, Piccolo and Gohan because they couldn't keep up with them.

Actually, Goku only invited Yamcha and Krillin to train and Tenshinhan was quite excited about facing the cyborgs to test his limits while Yamcha and Krillin looked nervous.

That's true, but I don't think Kuririn and Yamcha looked particularly nervous. At least not any more than serious and stoic Tenshinhan.

Yamcha and Krillin didn't want to fight for the androids unlike Tenshinhan who is excited and looking forward to do it.
If you look at the manga Tenshinhan is determined.
Furthermore, when Piccolo tells them to stay away if they aren't strong enough to fight, Krillin smiles more or less trembling while he says "...Heh..." and Yamcha says"...that's true...".
On the other hand,Tenshinhan is only worried about the location and when the fight will happen.

Nope, he never did. He practised a little when fighting Chioutzu. He saw Yamcha did it so he wanted to try it next, but Roshi states he hasn't really mastered it (paraphrase)

Exactly,Krillin and Roshi were very surprised when Yamcha did kamehameha.

[djkalteraphine]

Nope, he never did. He practised a little when fighting Chioutzu. He saw Yamcha did it so he wanted to try it next, but Roshi states he hasn't really mastered it (paraphrase)

Exactly,Krillin and Roshi were very surprised when Yamcha did kamehameha.

Well, think about it this way - Yamcha knew what the Kamehameha was before he knew Kame Sen'nin personally. He explains to Puar (and the audience) what exactly it is. So we can assume that Yamcha had really been working on it, and for a long time. Possibly longer than he trained with Roshi, after seeing Goku pull it off so easily.

[Xyex]

Krillin mastered the Kamehameha (before Yamcha, I believe).

Yamcha had already mastered the Kamehameha during the 22nd tournament...or at least mastered it enough for Kame'sennin to not comment about it. Kuririn saw him do it and went, "Well if he can do it, I must be able to!".

Ah, I was thinking it went the other way. With Krillin doing it and Yamcha copying.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I know that when Tenshinhan goes to Kaio, it's to surpass Goku. Piccolo said that he'll become even stronger than Goku, and he also said that he was too proud to let the others get stronger than him, so apparently they aren't that far behind Piccolo that they can't surpass him.

But I think Super Saiyan was the final nail in the coffin for the Earthlings. No-one but Piccolo could ever keep up with the Saiyans after Super Saiyan was introduced.

As for Piccolo, I was happy with his mentor role to Goten and Trunks in the Boo arc. He was entertaining enough that it didn't matter that we didn't get to see him fight. Although Toriyama did kind of shit on a gaping opportunity to have him fight, even if he wasn't planning to have him do so as the story progressed, at the 25th TB against Kaioshin. But, instead, he pulled some out-of-character bullshit and made Piccolo forfeit because the mysterious stranger who may or may not have been the Dai Kaio read his mind.

Again, you aren't wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that Toriyama could have written a way for them to keep up. And for my experience as a reader, it would have been more satisfying. In the same way Oda, with One Piece, makes sure all the Straw Hats members, even the 'weak' ones, get their moments and battles every arc, I feel like Dragon Ball (especially the Cell/Buu arcs) would've benefited from similar treatment.

Yeah, that's true. By the Cell arc, it's almost funny to think that Tenshinhan was once Goku's rival and considered by Roshi to be one of the best four warriors in the world. It's kind of sad that they were basically forgotten in the midst of the Saiyans and Piccolo.

Toriyama never should've gotten #18 to shack up with Kuririn. Totally improbable, needless and pointless. The Androids had served their purpose in the story, and #18 didn't need to hang around as yet another background character who used to fight but now does nothing but stare and say, "OMG DEY R SOOO POWAHFUL! "

And #16 had served his purpose too. And he was dead, and it apparently didn't occur to them to try and revive him, since all Kuririn cared about was deepthroating #18.

That's, like, your opinion, man. Getting Kuririn married was pointless? Alright... he'd only been talking about it for half the series, and his crush on 18 played an important part of the Cell arc. And as for 16... his fate is pretty bullshit. He'd have been so perfect as part of the Capsule Corp. family... helping Vegeta train, babysitting Trunks, being Bulma's lab partner... So much potential for good, warm, fun and funny times.... such a good character, stoic, kind hearted, tragic origins... wasted, if you ask me.

No, I'm happy about the fact that Kuririn finally got married like he always wanted to...but I'm unhappy about the fact that it was to #18. He got a boner and formed a ridiculous infatuation over a kiss from a girl who'd just beaten the crap out of his friends and who had been foretold to have killed all of them (including him) in the future. That boner then went on to cloud his judgement by risking the fate of the Earth because he didn't want to kill a girl he'd hoped to fuck, and don't tell me that he just didn't want to destroy another human being. In that little thought bubble, you see that he was thinking about that kiss.

And I have to disagree with you on #16. The Androids had served the purpose in the story and didn't need to be brought back. I think it would've been kind of awkward having #16 hang around there (mind, it's still hard-wired into #16's system that his mission was to kill Goku, and he obviously hadn't forgotten that when he refused to shake Goku's hand and reminded him that he was meant to kill him). It's kind of stupid that his sacrifice was practically the only one that didn't get to be revived, but it seemed the heroes' main focus was reviving everyone (and, for Kuririn, nailing #18). I would've liked him to return to life, but I don't know what I'd do with him that wouldn't make him just another background character.

Toriyama never should've gotten #18 to shack up with Kuririn. Totally improbable, needless and pointless. The Androids had served their purpose in the story, and #18 didn't need to hang around as yet another background character who used to fight but now does nothing but stare and say, "OMG DEY R SOOO POWAHFUL! "

What ... exactly is the alternative? She's actually pretty active through the first half of the Boo arc, fighting Goten and Trunks and taking Mr. Satan's bribe in the tournament. After that, sure, she spends her time at God's palace waiting for Gotenks and Boo to fight, but so does every character not named Gotenks, Piccolo or Boo. There's nothing wrong with this, and it'd be totally illogical to have her do anything else. She only really misses the climax.

Outside of the manga, she isn't treated particularly badly either. She gets a starring role in Movie 11, and gets a prominent little arc in GT (although she's glaringly missing from the final arc). She's one of the few female characters who remains in-control and relevant after becoming a mother. She never quite falls into the role of slack-jawed spectator, except when it really, really makes sense for her to do so.

And your alternative for her is to, what, just have her hang out in the mountains with #17 and never interact with the cast again?

Yep. She wasn't Goku or anyone else's friend, and she shunned Kuririn after he'd looked after her, until she heard his wish. It's not as if shacking up with Kuririn was the only option Toriyama could take for her after the Cell arc. The whole "Kuririn & #18" subplot is stupid.

So yeah, I'd have her just hang out in the mountains with #17 and never interact with the cast again, perhaps aside from the Genki-Dama donation at the end.

She's not treated particularly badly, at least in the beginning. But she never does anything important. She has one tournament battle against Goten and Trunks, big whoop. That's the most active role she has in the manga. Movie #11, I can give you that. It seems that Toei actually decided to make some use of her that was important to the plot. I haven't really seen GT, but I know that little arc she has isn't much either and she pretty much resorts back into a background mother again.

I think it's a bit of a jump to say that Kuririn never mastered the technique, though.

Yeah. I think he'd mastered the Kamehameha by the 23rd TB. It looked mastered when he used it in his match against Piccolo.

[Jackal puFF]

Yamcha just seems to have that slacker attitude engraved into him. It's all in his long hair haha.

[Attitudefan]

Yamcha just seems to have that slacker attitude engraved into him. It's all in his long hair haha.

I have long hair!

...but this is true.....

[In Brightest Day]

It was made pretty clear throughout the series that Yamcha was never a slacker. The dude went from being completely outmatched by the main fighters at the 21st Budokai (Roshi, Son Goku, Nam and Kuririn) to basically being Krillins equal (stated by Krillin himself in the Manga) and being able to hold his own against the top tiers, such as Tenshinhan just 3 years later. He also keeped up with Tien and Kuririn during the battle against the Saiyans.

Yamcha was outmatched in power by the Super Saiyans, Piccolo and the main villians in the series, sure. But a slacker? Hell no. He showed up for a fight against people who could slaughter Frieza in a moment. Comprehend what that intails.

'Badass' would be the only appropriate title for the guy, IMO...

[Attitudefan]

It was made pretty clear throughout the series that Yamcha was never a slacker. The dude went from being completely outmatched by the main fighters at the 21st Budokai (Roshi, Son Goku, Nam and Kuririn) to basically being Krillins equal (stated by Krillin himself in the Manga) and being able to hold his own against the top tiers, such as Tenshinhan just 3 years later. He also keeped up with Tenshinhan and Kuririn during the battle against the Saiyans.

Yamcha was outmatched in power by the Super Saiyans, Piccolo and the main villians in the series, sure. But a slacker? Hell no. He showed up for a fight against people who could slaughter Freeza in a moment. Comprehend what that intails.

'Badass' would be the only appropriate title for the guy, IMO...

I assume during the time with Kami, he was shown to be at Tenshinhan's level and Krillin worked with the real slacker, Yajarobi. I can't remember if in the manga, there was any panels of the Z-crew fighting one another.... I'm too lazy to check right now anyways.

EDIT: 300th post! yay

[Michsi]

It was made pretty clear throughout the series that Yamcha was never a slacker. The dude went from being completely outmatched by the main fighters at the 21st Budokai (Roshi, Son Goku, Nam and Kuririn) to basically being Krillins equal (stated by Krillin himself in the Manga) and being able to hold his own against the top tiers, such as Tenshinhan just 3 years later. He also keeped up with Tenshinhan and Kuririn during the battle against the Saiyans.

Yamcha was outmatched in power by the Super Saiyans, Piccolo and the main villians in the series, sure. But a slacker? Hell no. He showed up for a fight against people who could slaughter Freeza in a moment. Comprehend what that intails.

'Badass' would be the only appropriate title for the guy, IMO...

Funny, I always thought Yamcha was actually stronger than Krillin during the 21 TB. He was 3-4 years older than Krillin and seemed more serious and experienced.

It's the 22nd where he and Krillin are equalis IMO.

Unfortunately, there ARE signs which point to the fact that Yamcha was never as dedicated as or as hard headed as the others althaugh they appear only later...... He is the loudest one to protest going against Freeza despite that there really wasn't any other option, he is the first to give up in doing anything against the androids...so yeah Toriyama wasn't exactly subtle....

[Bussani]

Funny I always thought Yamcha was actually stronger than Krillin during the 21 TB. He was 3-4 years older than Krillin and seemed more serious and experienced.

Kuririn seemed to do a lot better against Jackie Chun than Yamcha did, though. I guess tournament fights aren't exactly a perfect indicator, but I always got the opposite impression, personally.