Did Toriyama Say DBO is Canon?

[Makaioshin]

http://sgame.jp/speciel_newsinfo35.php Bit of news, an "NTL X Bandai Korea Interview", following up on DBO's rapid rise into Korea's top ten online games chart...

Next, they talk a bit about the story, and Akira Toriyama's involvement. Basically, they say that the story of Dragon Ball Online can't be the same as the original story, because it's set 250 years later, and they need to have new events for the present setting. They say that they're trying to implement the most original stories, and that everything is produced under the supervision of the original author, Akira Toriyama, and Shueisha, the copyright holders.

They then go on to discuss the hows and whys of implementating familiar elements from the manga, like the Tenkaichi Budokai, Scouters, and Jan Ken, and what sort of content they'd like to add in the future. They say that those things had to be included because it wouldn't feel like Dragon Ball without them.

They mention that when it comes to special techniques, they have to strike a balance for the sake of gameplay and that they can't always just look at how powerful they were in the original, though it's really cool to see a famous skill thrown in at the end of a combo. They want to eventually implement team-up attacks. They also mention that they have to come up with a lot of completely original abilities, simply because they're required for the sake of gameplay, but that it can be a difficult process because Akira Toriyama and Shueisha have to consent to every ability they come up with. This is taken very seriously, so that anything they develop can be considered an official part of Dragon Ball.

They then basically emphasize that everything that actually gets developed has to be supervised by Shueisha and checked by Toriyama before being placed in the game, and that such an influence gives an official touch to everything in the game.

....

And this is the message from Toriyama posted on DBO's website during the launch of the beta.

I can translate the Japanese version of Toriyama's message at least:

Hey all you Korean DragonBall fans, it’s been a long time. It’s me, Akira Toriyama.
This new DragonBall story that we're delivering to you this time begins in a world 250 years after the manga.
There, Earthlings, Saiyans, Namekians, Majins, and others all live together, but it seems that something is wrong.
What occurred in those 250 years, and what’s happening now? Please enjoy this new DragonBall world as you resolve this.
Everyone on the excellent staff really drew a lot of new characters and machines for me. Of course, I supervise them all. There are also a lot of designs in there that I drew myself.
When I actually got to see the pictures in motion, I was truly impressed by their high quality!
It’ll make me happy if you fully enjoy this new world of adventure, this time online!

Akira Toriyama

[NeoKING]

All right, so he supervised - not created - the techniques and stuff. He also supervised and green-lit the plots for the movies. Doesn't make 'em canon.

But, it really doesn't matter. Whatever you want to be canon is your canon.

[Kiyza]

All right, so he supervised - not created - the techniques and stuff. He also supervised and green-lit the plots for the movies. Doesn't make 'em canon.

But, it really doesn't matter. Whatever you want to be canon is your canon.

It does say that he created some of the character designs at the very least.

Part of me also feels that it doesn't really matter who came up with originally, and we're putting way too much emphasis on that. If you take a lot American comics, movies, etc. for instance, a lot of what they consider to be a part of canon probably wasn't made up by the one who created the series in the first place. For things like Star Wars, at least, there are tiers of canon with the creator's works at the very top, and that's generally how I like to see this in relation to the Dragon Ball manga.

It's probably also worth mentioning that the Daizenshuu themselves (and by extension, other guidebooks) almost certainly weren't written by Toriyama himself, barring the interviews with him. Despite that, a pretty fair number of people accept those a canon to the manga in at least some capacity. I ask, what would make Dragon Ball Online different from that?

[Piccolo Daimao]

It seems that far too many people are getting their knickers in a twist about what is canon and what's not. It appears that the only universally accepted canon is the manga, because it was the original.

But either way, not Toriyama or anyone else has ever come out and labeled anything as canon. Until then, people should stop blowing blood vessels about canonicity. You can say that the manga and the anime are different continuities, and that's perfectly acceptable. But people shouldn't be trying to enforce their opinion that something's canon when it's not as if anything has or doesn't have to be this or that. This entire canon business just makes me facepalm, because it's so stupid it doesn't even matter.

[B]

All right, so he supervised - not created - the techniques and stuff. He also supervised and green-lit the plots for the movies. Doesn't make 'em canon.

But, it really doesn't matter. Whatever you want to be canon is your canon.

How about some source on that? I know he contributed character designs for the movies, but when did he supervise any of them? And I highly doubt he "green-lit" any of them. "Green-lit" implies giving the okay, which I doubt Toiryama cared enough to give. And, if by some strange chance he didn't want a movie "green-lit," could he have stopped it? Legally, Toei and Shueisha actually own Dragon Ball, even if he did write it.

[Michelle91]

Unless stated other wise, I think anything in Dragon Ball that was not created by AT should not be count as canon. I don't see how it's so hard to be comprehend since the same rules tends to apply for most fiction since you don't see people calling the Lord of the Rings movies cannon. Or A New Alice in the Old Wonderland canon to Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland.

[HECTOR4]

Canon = The original story and its sequels.

In DB canon is: the manga and its continuation.

What is the only continuation of the comic? Dragon Ball Online. Said by Toriyama himself. Because the only product canon is DBO.

[VegettoEX]

In DB canon is: the manga and its continuation.

Says who?

YET AGAIN I FEEL COMPELLED TO POINT OUT that absolutely no-one responsible for the creation of any aspect of the series has come out and said, "For realz you guys and gals, these are the only particular pieces of media that we consider the base, canonical version of the story", and then went on to actually list anything.

"Canonicity" ≠ "Continuity"

[B]

Unless stated other wise, I think anything in Dragon Ball that was not created by AT should not be count as canon. I don't see how it's so hard to be comprehend since the same rules tends to apply for most fiction since you don't see people calling the Lord of the Rings movies cannon. Or A New Alice in the Old Wonderland canon to Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland.

Those weren't sequels with heavy involvement from the original creators/authors/whatever, which DBO is. I don't see how that's so hard to comprehend.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

In DB canon is: the manga and its continuation.

Says who?

YET AGAIN I FEEL COMPELLED TO POINT OUT that absolutely no-one responsible for the creation of any aspect of the series has come out and said, "For realz you guys and gals, these are the only particular pieces of media that we consider the base, canonical version of the story", and then went on to actually list anything.

"Canonicity" ≠ "Continuity"

*returns after a hiatus due to other projects*

Canonicity and Continuity are a different story. As Mike/VegettoEX pointed out. Anime and Manga canon for this series is a bit different. Let's say DBO exists years after GT.

[Eddie]

Let's not say DBO takes place years after GT, as that scenario happens to be impossible. I really don't care about the "DBO is canon to the manga" thing, but I do think it's obvious GT isn't canon to DBO.

[Bussani]

I don't see how it's so hard to be comprehend since the same rules tends to apply for most fiction since you don't see people calling the Lord of the Rings movies cannon. Or A New Alice in the Old Wonderland canon to Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland.

You can't just apply that rule to every fiction. It doesn't work. It would be like saying that all Star Trek after Gene Roddenberry died isn't canon, which is just nonsensical. Some people say that things like Deep Space Nine shouldn't be part of Gene Roddenberry's canon, but it's very much a part of Paramount's canon, which is the official canon for the franchise.

The Lord of the Rings movies aren't canon to the original novels for a different reason: they're an interpretation of the very novels you're talking about, so how on Earth could they ever be considered part of the same canon of the novels? Especially when some of the events in the films are different to how they were in the novels. It's true that canonicity and continuity aren't the same thing, but you can't have canon without continuity.

[Fox666]

I don't see how it's so hard to be comprehend since the same rules tends to apply for most fiction since you don't see people calling the Lord of the Rings movies cannon. Or A New Alice in the Old Wonderland canon to Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland.

You can't just apply that rule to every fiction. It doesn't work. It would be like saying that all Star Trek after Gene Roddenberry died isn't canon, which is just nonsensical. Some people say that things like Deep Space Nine shouldn't be part of Gene Roddenberry's canon, but it's very much a part of Paramount's canon, which is the official canon for the franchise.

Star Trek is a series developed by many writers, so hardly something can be dismissed. A manga on the other hand, if writen by a single person, there isn't much to argue about what is cannon or not.

Something like Dragon Ball GT has nothing to back it up except for Toei exclusive rights (aka money). The same goes for Dragon Ball Evolution.

At least, as far the arguments goes, the support for Dragon Ball Online canon are better than the cons (i.e. "a videogame cannot be cannon").

[Bussani]

Star Trek is a series developed by many writers, so hardly something can be dismissed. A manga on the other hand, if writen by a single person, there isn't much to argue about what is cannon or not.

Paramount dismisses plenty when it comes to Star Trek. Their canon policy is fairly well laid out. In fact, having a lot of writers makes having a good canon policy that much more important. That was really my whole point, though: you can't apply one rule of what is and isn't canon to all works. It just doesn't work. Canon is more flexible than that.

[HECTOR4]

In DB canon is: the manga and its continuation.

Says who?

YET AGAIN I FEEL COMPELLED TO POINT OUT that absolutely no-one responsible for the creation of any aspect of the series has come out and said, "For realz you guys and gals, these are the only particular pieces of media that we consider the base, canonical version of the story", and then went on to actually list anything.

"Canonicity" ≠ "Continuity"

The meaning of canon is anything that is part of the original work. Another thing isn´t.

The continuation of a product means that the following is part of the work. It's logical. A sequel stands for canonical ... Always continue the original work. For a product to be canonical all you need is to be official and be part of the original work.

Toriyama said that DBO continue to the manga, and therefore part of that story. And so DBO is canonical with the manga. Bone, Toriyama to say that Dragon Ball Online continued officially to the comic, said while Draon Ball Online was canonical. None required specification because it´s understood perfectly

In fact DBO is the only product based solely on the comic...And so is the only canon product with the comics.

Sorry for my bad english...U.U

[Michsi]

Toriyama said that DBO continue to the manga, and therefore part of that story. And so DBO is canonical with the manga. Bone, Toriyama to say that Dragon Ball Online continued officially to the comic, said while Draon Ball Online was canonical. None required specification because it´s understood perfectly

Do you have an official quote for this? From an interview or something?

Yes, DBO follows the manga more closely but to simply accept that THIS is the canonical continuation without any official statement is pretty hard , no matter how well it fits with the original story line.

It's a different media and the story was developed based on the form of this media. I am 100% sure that had he decided to continue via manga again, the story would have been totally different.

[B]

It's a different media and the story was developed based on the form of this media. I am 100% sure that had he decided to continue via manga again, the story would have been totally different.

I guess we will never know for sure. And it's not like it's unprecedented for stories to continue in other mediums.

[Michsi]

It's a different media and the story was developed based on the form of this media. I am 100% sure that had he decided to continue via manga again, the story would have been totally different.

I guess we will never know for sure. And it's not like it's unprecedented for stories to continue in other mediums.

I suppose it's up to everyone to decide for themsleves, but with no official statement from Toriyama for now,I don't think it's right for anybody to claim that this is canon and should be universally accepted. I'm not saiying this to defend GT or anything and I happen to like DBO's ideas more , but because it doesn't feel like the right continuation.
If Toriyama ever comes out and tells us, this is what happenes after the manga ends than there is not much else left to say there, but he hasn't. Maybe once the game gets released in Japan he'll do more interviews.

[HECTOR4]

Do you have an official quote for this? From an interview or something?

Yes, if any. On the DBO Web Toriyama left a text saying that DBO was the continuation of the comic. Herms translated the text and placed it in a post about DBO.

I can translate the Japanese version of Toriyama's message at least:

Hey all you Korean DragonBall fans, it’s been a long time. It’s me, Akira Toriyama.
This new DragonBall story that we're delivering to you this time begins in a world 250 years after the manga.
There, Earthlings, Saiyans, Namekians, Majins, and others all live together, but it seems that something is wrong.
What occurred in those 250 years, and what’s happening now? Please enjoy this new DragonBall world as you resolve this.
Everyone on the excellent staff really drew a lot of new characters and machines for me. Of course, I supervise them all. There are also a lot of designs in there that I drew myself.
When I actually got to see the pictures in motion, I was truly impressed by their high quality!
It’ll make me happy if you fully enjoy this new world of adventure, this time online!

Akira Toriyama

[Michsi]

Do you have an official quote for this? From an interview or something?

Yes, if any. On the DBO Web Toriyama left a text saying that DBO was the continuation of the comic. Herms translated the text and placed it in a post about DBO.

I can translate the Japanese version of Toriyama's message at least:

Hey all you Korean DragonBall fans, it’s been a long time. It’s me, Akira Toriyama.
This new DragonBall story that we're delivering to you this time begins in a world 250 years after the manga.
There, Earthlings, Saiyans, Namekians, Majins, and others all live together, but it seems that something is wrong.
What occurred in those 250 years, and what’s happening now? Please enjoy this new DragonBall world as you resolve this.
Everyone on the excellent staff really drew a lot of new characters and machines for me. Of course, I supervise them all. There are also a lot of designs in there that I drew myself.
When I actually got to see the pictures in motion, I was truly impressed by their high quality!
It’ll make me happy if you fully enjoy this new world of adventure, this time online!

Akira Toriyama

Where does it say that this is the canon continuation ? All he says is that this is a new Dragon Ball story, nothing like " these are the events that I imagined would happen" the manga ended. Again, nothing stated above confirms that DB fans should view DBO's events as what really happened.