Is Piccolo really fused in Movie 7?

[CatouttaHell]

I know most people nowadays think Piccolo is Kamiccolo in Movie 7, but is there an actual concrete proof of this? The biggest argument for Movie 7 Piccolo = Kamiccolo is that he was implied to be that powerful in Movie 6 by Dende being the new Kami-sama. This can simply be explained by the fact that the movie takes place in an alternate dimension and doesn't have to mean Piccolo = Kamiccolo. In fact Piccolo seems to be a lot closer to Gohan and Kuririn's tier in Movie 6 than to SSjin Goku and Vegeta's tier, which makes him being fused rather questionable. And even if he is fused in Movie 6, the movies don't correlate unless they're sequels.

It also seems to me that Piccolo fares worse than the Super Saiya-jins against Super #13 as he remains unconscious until Gohan almost getting killed awakens him, while the Saiya-jins get up soon after they're first taken down without anything triggering it. So, long story short, is there any actually concrete proof that Piccolo is fused with Kami-sama in Movie 7?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Not that I know of. Piccolo's arrival seems to imply he's up there, if not better than the Super Saiyans based on the reaction's he was receiving. Aside from that, nothing else I can think of.

[Son_Gohan]

The movie was released July 11, 1992.

Piccolo's fusion with Kami first appeared in the manga on February 24, 1992. So it's likely he was fused going by the chronology. The entire movie was really just spotlighted for the Super Saiyans though, even the villain transforms into its own version of one.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Concerning Movie #6, it basically seems to be a side-story or whatever to the early Android arc. Goku and Vegeta are around the same strength and fighting the main villains because they're the strongest, while Piccolo, Gohan and Kuririn fight the henchmen. Fuck Dende being God of Earth; that doesn't make sense within the chronology, nor is it ended to make sense. It's an alternate universe.

Movie #7's the same thing. It focuses on the Super Saiyans, who fight the main villains, because they're the strongest. Piccolo pops up towards the end of the movie, but doesn't do much apart from getting his ass spanked by Super #13.

In both Movie #6 & #7, Piccolo is clearly portrayed as being weaker than the Super Saiyans.

[lash]

Sure, he can be.
I see no reason for him not to be.
SSJ Goku was even comfortable reverting back to base in the middle of a battle when Green man entered the scene.

I don't think he's fused in movie 6 though, even though Dende is god. His power should be higher than a single Metal Cooler.

[Fox666]

If Dende is there, then he is undoubtedly fused with Kami.

If his power is questionable lower than the Super Saiyans, that only means the movies notion of characters strength sucks.

[CatouttaHell]

Not that I know of. Piccolo's arrival seems to imply he's up there, if not better than the Super Saiyans based on the reaction's he was receiving. Aside from that, nothing else I can think of.

Yeah Piccolo's arrival seems to imply Piccolo >>> Super Saiya-jins but then the actual fight seems to imply the opposite. It's confusing.

The movie was released July 11, 1992.

Piccolo's fusion with Kami first appeared in the manga on February 24, 1992. So it's likely he was fused going by the chronology. The entire movie was really just spotlighted for the Super Saiyans though, even the villain transforms into its own version of one.

I didn't know this. Still it seems they just ignored what was going on in the actual story just so they could let the Super Saiya-jins shine. Piccolo seems to take longer to recover from Super #13's attack on him than an already battle-damaged Vegeta and Trunks.

Concerning Movie #6, it basically seems to be a side-story or whatever to the early Android arc. Goku and Vegeta are around the same strength and fighting the main villains because they're the strongest, while Piccolo, Gohan and Kuririn fight the henchmen. Fuck Dende being God of Earth; that doesn't make sense within the chronology, nor is it ended to make sense. It's an alternate universe.

Movie #7's the same thing. It focuses on the Super Saiyans, who fight the main villains, because they're the strongest. Piccolo pops up towards the end of the movie, but doesn't do much apart from getting his ass spanked by Super #13.

In both Movie #6 & #7, Piccolo is clearly portrayed as being weaker than the Super Saiyans.

I agree. I can accept Piccolo being fused in Movie 7 but him being fused in Movie 6 is just ridiculous. I mean he had trouble with the same guys that Kuririn and Gohan defeated. Normal Piccolo who is >>> 100% Freeza being portrayed like that is bad enough but with Kamiccolo it's just ridiculous IMO.

Sure, he can be.
I see no reason for him not to be.
SSJ Goku was even comfortable reverting back to base in the middle of a battle when Green man entered the scene.

I don't think he's fused in movie 6 though, even though Dende is god. His power should be higher than a single Metal Cooler.

Yeah Goku reverting back to base is definitely the best evidence for Kamiccolo, but on the other hand Piccolo says "it's not over yet," which seems to imply that #13 isn't some kind of worthless fodder to Piccolo. Kamiccolo should be able to break SSjin Goku and by extension normal #13 over his knee though. There's also the fact that Piccolo seems to only do as good, if not worse than the Super Saiya-jins, despite them being damaged from fighting the other Artificial Humans before the fight while he was fresh.

If Dende is there, then he is undoubtedly fused with Kami.

If his power is questionable lower than the Super Saiyans, that only means the movies notion of characters strength sucks.

But the only real difference between fused and unfused Piccolo is his power. And in Movie 6 he's having trouble with henchmen while Goku and Vegeta are fighting the big bad. If his power seems to be no different from his unfused self it's not an absolute certainty that he's fused with Kami-sama IMO. Could be just Toriyama giving them a design of Dende as Kami-sama and them deciding to use it without thinking about what that actually means story-wise. Maybe Kami-sama just retired?

[Fox666]

Phew, in no time Goku surpassed Piccolo in the manga/anime. So the movie time-line might be just messed up, whatever.

[Michsi]

It's hard for me to take movies seriously epsecially when it comes to power and the likes. The answer to why Piccolo didn't seem so strong is quite simple really. There was no way he was supposed out-shine the saiyans. At this point he was already being replaced by Vegeta as the guy to stand next to Goku and I suppose both Vegeta and Trunks surpassed Piccolo in popularity, so of course they'd get treated better. I don't remember much about movie 7 (I think I've only seen it once) but iirc he gets taken down pretty easily. Correct me if I'm wrong

[CatouttaHell]

I don't remember much about movie 7 (I think I've only seen it once) but iirc he gets taken down pretty easily. Correct me if I'm wrong

Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo, and Son Goku all attack Super #13 one-on-one and all get taken down instantly (though he pretty much just dismisses Piccolo and Trunks with an uncharged Ki blast to each but with Vegeta he smashes him into the ground and then fires a Ki blast at him.) Goku reverts to base from one blow then gets pounded over and over in a typical Toei-Haxed Shirtless Base Goku moment.

Trunks, Vegeta, and Piccolo then get up to stall Super #13 to let Goku create a Genki Dama, though despite Piccolo arriving to the scene fresh and Vegeta and Trunks being battle-damaged before the fight, they get up on their own accord and Piccolo remains unconscious until Gohan almost being killed wakes him up.

[goldsaint13]

I don't think Piccolo is fused with Kami against Android 13...

That movie seems to happen in the middle world where Trunks went but Cell didn't, so Goku healed himself from the illness before the fight with the Androids and they managed to defeat them somehow joining the 3 SSJ powers (possibly there were a 18 and 17 weaker but evil, like in the future)...

It's like that some time after Goku, Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo defeated 17 and 18, the new 3 Androids appeared...

Piccolo is not fused with Kami because he would be stronger than early SSJ... Simply things went differently... And remember that even without Kami, Android saga Piccolo is strong so that he is called Super Namekian (like Super Saiyan)... He didn't seem to fear Android 20 more than Vegeta feared Android 19... Of course Piccolo is not at Vegeta level and possibly neither at Goku and Trunks level of 3 years before... But could have he reached 100% Freezer strength? It's a possibility...

[Piccolo Daimao]

SSJ Goku was even comfortable reverting back to base in the middle of a battle when Green man entered the scene.

That means nothing. From an in-universe perspective, you could say that #13 was momentarily incapacitated because Piccolo had thrown him away, and Goku was just taking a break.

Nothing in both Movie #6 or #7 suggests that Piccolo is stronger than the Super Saiyans. In Movie #6, he's stuck fighting the henchmen while Goku and Vegeta fight the main villain. In Movie #7, he pops up halfway through the film, only to get his ass kicked along with the others soon afterwards. There's nothing that suggests that Piccolo is stronger than the Super Saiyans, because the focus isn't on him and people that say he is are just trying to shoehorn the movies into the main story's continuity. Which, as has been proven multiple times, will never work nor is it supposed to.

Dende being there means nothing since Movie #6 isn't part of the main story's continuity, nor is it supposed to be. I dunno, perhaps God died from smoking too much pot and Goku had to grab Dende from "New Namek" early. But either way, Dende being God of Earth does automatically mean Piccolo merged with God. And Cell isn't even mentioned in the movie, or any of the movies until Movie #9.

[dbgtFO]

I dunno, perhaps God died from smoking too much pot and Goku had to grab Dende from "New Namek" early.

Piccolo would be dead too then. And was that a TFS reference?

[lash]

Yeah Goku reverting back to base is definitely the best evidence for Kamiccolo, but on the other hand Piccolo says "it's not over yet," which seems to imply that #13 isn't some kind of worthless fodder to Piccolo. Kamiccolo should be able to break SSjin Goku and by extension normal #13 over his knee though.

There's also the fact that Piccolo seems to only do as good, if not worse than the Super Saiya-jins, despite them being damaged from fighting the other Artificial Humans before the fight while he was fresh.

To me at least..."It's not over yet" seemed to imply that that little spin he used didn't rid him of the android yet. After 13 threatened to kill Piccolo for interfering with Goku's fight, Piccolo went right on to sarcastically say "You expect me to let you kill me while you're at it? You're the one who's going to come rattling apart!" This is all while standing next to a reverted Goku. Doesn't sound like Piccolo's particularly worried in the slightest about 13. In fact, it sounds like he's about ready to whoop some robot ass.

An anteater is not going to do any better against a T Rex then an ant will. They are both going to get utterly stomped out. But that doesn't mean the anteater should be assumed to be in the same tier as an ant. That's pretty much how I see the Super 13 vs Piccolo & SSJ's fight.

SSJ Goku was even comfortable reverting back to base in the middle of a battle when Green man entered the scene.

That means nothing. From an in-universe perspective, you could say that #13 was momentarily incapacitated because Piccolo had thrown him away, and Goku was just taking a break.

That might have worked...if Piccolo didn't directly tell Goku "isn't not over yet". Yet Goku is completely relaxed with Piccolo standing next to him. I mean, Piccolo pretty much says he's going to rattle 13 apart after he appears. If that isn't an indication, I don't know what is.

[Fox666]

I watched the movie and I don't see why Piccolo wouldn't be fused with Kami.

First of all, the fights on this movie sucks. For more than half of the movie Goku, Trunks and Vegeta are fighting more-or-less equally without transforming in Super Saiyans whom they are almost defeated after transforming. Which even makes me wonder why would someone look over Piccolo despite that kind of blatant error.

Piccolo was fighting along the Super Saiyans, so I guess the writers at least got the part which he was supposed to be super strong now. He only was defeated by Super 13, but everybody was in a very lame battle sequence.

[What Up Namek!]

I always assumed this movie was supposed to take place during the middle of the Android saga and before the Cell saga. Which would mean Piccolo hasn't fused with Kami yet. Which makes sense considering how weak he is in this movie compared to the pre-ROSAT super saiyans.

[goldsaint13]

I always assumed this movie was supposed to take place during the middle of the Android saga and before the Cell saga. Which would mean Piccolo hasn't fused with Kami yet. Which makes sense considering how weak he is in this movie compared to the pre-ROSAT super saiyans.

Agree... I think it takes place in the world where the only time traveler is Trunks and not Cell (the Trunks returning from that world will be killed by Cell in the future to rob him of the Time Machine)...

[Piccolo Daimao]

I dunno, perhaps God died from smoking too much pot and Goku had to grab Dende from "New Namek" early.

Piccolo would be dead too then. And was that a TFS reference?

Yeah, that was a TFS reference. And I didn't think about Piccolo dying because I just wanted to make a random joke related to the rest of my post.

I watched the movie and I don't see why Piccolo wouldn't be fused with Kami.

First of all, the fights on this movie sucks. For more than half of the movie Goku, Trunks and Vegeta are fighting more-or-less equally without transforming in Super Saiyans whom they are almost defeated after transforming. Which even makes me wonder why would someone look over Piccolo despite that kind of blatant error.

Piccolo was fighting along the Super Saiyans, so I guess the writers at least got the part which he was supposed to be super strong now. He only was defeated by Super 13, but everybody was in a very lame battle sequence.

What does the quality of the fights have anything to do with it? Yeah, the Saiyans seem to be fighting more-or-less equally with the Androids, seemingly at both base and SSj, but you could make the argument that it's just for drama and entertainment, like Goku not becoming a SSj until his dramatic scene towards the end of Movie #5. Piccolo was fighting along the Super Saiyans, but he's always been fighting along the Super Saiyans. He fought #20 with them. He fought #17 & #18 with them, and got defeated with them. And he doesn't do any better than them against #13. He gets quickly demolished along with the rest of them, and doesn't last any significantly longer than them.

And the fact that Goku resorted to base in the middle of the fight when Piccolo was there means nothing too. As I said, as an in-universe explanation, #13 was momentarily incapacitated and Goku took a breather. Plus, this is a DBZ movie. Characters always revert to base and fight in base rather than transforming straight away, presumably for drama and/or plot purposes. Goku decided to fuck around in base and Kaio-Ken before finally transforming into SSj against Coola in Movie #6. Gohan fought Bujin in base and Bojack and his henchmen in base until becoming SSj2 in Movie #9. Gohan didn't become a SSj/2 against Broli in Movie #10 until sometime after fighting SSj Broli. Goku didn't become SSj3 against Janemba until he realized he was getting his ass whooped in Movie #12.

Now, I know you may point out some of these examples as someone being unable to transform at a given time (e.g. Gohan's rage and SSj2), but they're still the same thing. Nor do I think Toei sat down and thought that they were going to have Piccolo be stronger than Goku in Movie #7 and deliberately have Goku revert to base when he arrived to better showcase that, despite the Super Saiyans having the focus (even in the fuckin' title) in the film. Plus, Toei like to suck Goku's dick and aren't exactly consistent with their powers either.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

The only time Gohan was in Base against Bujin was when he was pleading with him to stop attacking him seriously and when he was trying to get away from him. When Gohan was left no choice in the situation, he fought Bojack's henchmen in Super Saiyan.

You can say Goku reverting to Base means nothing, but the fact is Goku was relieved that Piccolo was there to help them fight. That alone suggests he's far from being the weakling of the bunch, considering Goku doesn't put up that great of a fight against #13, anyway. No sense in being relieved that a weakling is there to lend a hand in the battle. The battle was simply to show that Super #13 was far stronger than all of them--not much of a comparison can be made in that curbstomp.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The only time Gohan was in Base against Bujin was when he was pleading with him to stop attacking him seriously and when he was trying to get away from him. When Gohan was left no choice in the situation, he fought Bojack's henchmen in Super Saiyan.

You can say Goku reverting to Base means nothing, but the fact is Goku was relieved that Piccolo was there to help them fight. That alone suggests he's far from being the weakling of the bunch, considering Goku doesn't put up that great of a fight against #13, anyway. No sense in being relieved that a weakling is there to lend a hand in the battle.

Well, I haven't watched Movie #9 in ages. But read the rest of my post. And Goku was relieved that Piccolo was there to help them fight in Movie #8 too. Does that mean that Piccolo's stronger than Goku in Movie #8? No, he was just glad to have someone else there to help them fight, even if he was weaker than him. And SSj Goku was fighting evenly with #13 until he transformed.