Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Rocketman » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:16 pm

Herms wrote:Or if I'm on a forum dedicated to Greek mythology in the original Greek, with again half the people from outside the US, and I ask how to properly pronounce "centaur", would it make sense for the people there to treat the soft 'c' pronunciation as an equally appropriate answer as the original Greek one?
You'll probably be told that it should be pronounced 'kentaur'. At the same time, the soft-c began in the last days of Latin and spread around through the Romance languages and other countries imitating them, so I doubt a big deal would be made of it.

By the way, what's the name of the large country in the middle of Europe the US fought against in the World Wars? Or the name of the ancient city-state once led by Leonidas? How about the country that city is in today?

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Cipher » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:38 pm

Herms wrote: Keep in mind though that this isn't America: this is a website on the internet where half the visitors come from outside the
US. And it's a series dedicated to the Japanese version of the franchise in the first place. If I'm in a supermarket in Montana and someone asks me how to pronounce "guacamole", of course I'm not going to give him a lesson in Spanish pronunciation (or Aztec, I guess). But if someone on a forum dedicated to Mexican food, where half the users aren't from the US, asks how to properly pronounce "guacamole", would it make sense to give them the US English answer? Or if I'm on a forum dedicated to Greek mythology in the original Greek, with again half the people from outside the US, and I ask how to properly pronounce "centaur", would it make sense for the people there to treat the soft 'c' pronunciation as an equally appropriate answer as the original Greek one? So here on Daizex, dedicated to the original Japanese version of DB and with half the visitors from outside the US, someone from China asks how to properly pronounce "Saiyan" and Mike explained the Japanese pronunciation, rather than how the word is commonly pronounced in the US.
That's actually really fair, and why I'd never decry Mike's choice to use "Sigh-an" on the podcast. It's the choice to view people who use "Say-an" as "willfully ignorant" that I really wanted to object to, but I guess it got a bit blurred.
Last edited by Cipher on Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Thanos » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:42 am

Sy-in.
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Re: Episode #0263 (26 June 2011)

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:07 am

Rocketman wrote:
DemonRin wrote:Do you say "Croissant" "Kroys-aynt"? Or "Kross-Ahnt"? You say it the 2nd way, because it's a FRENCH WORD.
New Orleans (Fr: "Or-lee-on"). Paris (Fr: "Pahree"). France (Fr: "Frahns").
Son Goku's name is Japanese name, you say it the Japanese way.
Caesar (Latin: "Kai-zar"). Zeus (Gr: "Zefs").


I have an itching suspicion this is far more MY ANIMES than desire for accuracy in pronunciation of words that cross languages.
I think this is a really good contention. If I were to ask my friend whether he's been to New Orleans (using the "correct" pronunciation), he would probably give me a puzzled look. Similarly, if were to ask him who favourite Saiyan is (again, using the "correct" pronunciation), he would probably give me an even more puzzled look. I think using the technically correct pronunciation of a foreign word that differs from how it said by over 90% of English speakers is pedantry.


The intention of language is to be understood. This primarily depends upon whom you are speaking to. If you're speaking to scholars of Greek mythology at Oxford, then by all means: use "Kerberos", use "Zefs". Likewise, if you're speaking to a fellow Daizexite on Skype, then by all means: use "Sigh-an". But most of the time, you'll want to use what's commonplace to avoid incomprehension or ridicule.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Mountain » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:42 am

I believe I'll stick to 'sigh-yahn' and/or 'sigh-yah-jeen' in any circumstance.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by TonyTheTiger » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:00 am

Cipher wrote:It's the choice to view people who use "Say-an" as "willfully ignorant," that I really wanted to object too, but I guess it got a bit blurred.
I'm with you. "Say-an," correct or otherwise, has taken a life of it's own. We can have the exact same argument (and have) about "Bulma." We know that technically her name should be sound something like "Bluuma" but, given the spelling, how can anybody fairly complain about "Bull-ma" being the preferred pronunciation among English speakers?

I figure, given the proliferation of "Say-an" in the English-speaking world, it's effectively become an appropriate English pronunciation by sheer dominance. Especially since "Saiyan" is more often used in English-speaking contexts anyway. Outside of a few minor situations, the Japanese mostly stick to "Saiya-jin."

Now that might sound brutish in a "might makes right" way but that's actually how language tends to develop in general. Things become "correct" by virtue of their common use. Take the word "until." We tend to think of "until" as the whole word and "till" as an abbreviated, less formal approximation. The truth is, though, that "till" came first. "Until" was the result of pretentious Victorian era writers trying to be fancy. But none of that really matters now. "Until" is pretty dominant and people tend to prefer it. Dubious origins or not, it won.

It's perfectly reasonable to indulge in linguistic discourse and have proponents of "sigh-an" continue to use that pronunciation and make their argument for it. But I'd argue, like the word "niche" has two acceptable pronunciations (nitch, neesh), "Saiyan" has two acceptable pronunciations.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Rocketman » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:53 am

Or, for a specifically American bit, there's the metal called aluminum here and 'aluminium' elsewhere.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:13 am

There's another name with a screwed pronunciation. Harry. If you've watched any Harry Potter movie, you hear them say "Ha-rry" as it is. But when I hear an American say it, they always say it as "Hair-y" like the word "Hairy".

So, I think it's a similar thing with pronouncing Saiyan as "Sigh-an" in the Japanese version vs "Say-an" in the American version. If we'd argue that you use the "Say-an" pronunciation because that's how it is in English, then why did they use "Sigh-ya" in the Malaysian English dub?! Hey. It's English too.
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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:17 am

SHINOBI-03 wrote:There's another name with a screwed pronunciation. Harry. If you've watched any Harry Potter movie, you hear them say "Ha-rry" as it is. But when I hear an American say it, they always say it as "Hair-y" like the word "Hairy".
I'm fairly certain that's just a dialectal difference. After all, the 33rd President had the name Harry.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by TripleRach » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:22 am

Piccolo Daimaoh wrote:
SHINOBI-03 wrote:There's another name with a screwed pronunciation. Harry. If you've watched any Harry Potter movie, you hear them say "Ha-rry" as it is. But when I hear an American say it, they always say it as "Hair-y" like the word "Hairy".
I'm fairly certain that's just a dialectal difference. After all, the 33rd President had the name Harry.
Yep. It's just an example of pronunciation differences between American English and English English. Americans always pronounce the name Harry like "hairy," and I'd be surprised if the English went out of their way to pronounce Harry Truman's name that way.
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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Rocketman » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:21 pm

SHINOBI-03 wrote:So, I think it's a similar thing with pronouncing Saiyan as "Sigh-an" in the Japanese version vs "Say-an" in the American version. If we'd argue that you use the "Say-an" pronunciation because that's how it is in English, then why did they use "Sigh-ya" in the Malaysian English dub?! Hey. It's English too.
American English has diverged from British Empire English. Can't imagine why.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by OutlawTorn » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:35 pm

SHINOBI-03 wrote:There's another name with a screwed pronunciation. Harry. If you've watched any Harry Potter movie, you hear them say "Ha-rry" as it is. But when I hear an American say it, they always say it as "Hair-y" like the word "Hairy".
That's actually a joke which is commonly played by Harry Stone on Night Court, who liked to introduce himself with "Hi, I'm Harry. Then again, aren't we all?" while the other characters aren't shy about voicing how old the joke is.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:31 am

OutlawTorn wrote: That's actually a joke which is commonly played by Harry Stone on Night Court, who liked to introduce himself with "Hi, I'm Harry. Then again, aren't we all?" while the other characters aren't shy about voicing how old the joke is.
I heard Julian say "Hairy" in one of the podcast episode, the folks at the Unofficial One Piece podcast say "Hairy", and lots of youtube videos done by Americans say "Hairy". At this point, I don't think they all say it as a reference to this joke.
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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Patient-mental » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:13 am

There are also different micro dialects between suburbs/towns within states and countries. Easiest example is using the "Harry"; Hermione (Another one which 99% of people reading it had to get explained to) is pronounced Ha-rry by Emma Watson, but Robbie Coltrane pronounces it "'arree" among other characters with differing ways of speaking.

One interesting thing about languages is that in Australia the indigenous people before Captain Cook arrived had differing languages from tribe to tribe only a few kilometres apart.

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Re: Pronunciation of "Saiyan"

Post by Attitudefan » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:18 pm

Aluminum ("A-loo-minum") is pronounced that way in Canadian/American English yet Brits call it "Alo-mini-um". They're both right but there's quite a difference. They sound like two completely different words!
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