A Quick Question About the "Orange Brick"

[King Hyperion]

So, the other day, I while re-watching "Season 2" of the "digitally remastered" boxsets (it's the only material copy of the show I have, sue me), I noticed something mildly interesting.
When attempting to hit the subtitles button, I accidentally pressed the angle button and noticed that it actually did something - it changed the title card for English text to the original Japanese.
My question to you, the men and women of Daizenshuu EX, is this: are there any other changes from this angle 1 setting? Or is it all in the original title card?

[GotenDaisuki]

I'm not sure about this myself, I could be wrong, but I think it changes the opening and ending themes to have Japanese credits. At least that's how it was on the Bardock/Trunks Double Feature.

[BluezaBladeNZ]

On the Orange Bricks, the alternate angles have japanese title cards and ending credits but the opening animation doesn't have them.

[SHINOBI-03]

What, never heard of "Alternate Angles"?

[bkev]

The second angle does have Japanese credits, but they're the same on every episode... at least, they were in season 1. So cast & crew from episodes not the first don't appear. Don't know if that's been pointed out since the original dissection or not.

[King Hyperion]

What, never heard of "Alternate Angles"?

Nah, of course I have! I was just curious how it applied to these sets, dawg.

[G1Ravage]

I was under the impression that the orange bricks didn't have angles...that was one of the reasons I refused to buy them originally. I didn't want English title cards ruining my Japanese viewing experience.

[Zestanor]

I was under the impression that the orange bricks didn't have angles...that was one of the reasons I refused to buy them originally. I didn't want English title cards ruining my Japanese viewing experience.

I think the orange bricks were some o the last sets from Funimation to include alternate angles (at least on Dragon Ball releases.) I don't know about the double feature movies, but on the blue/green bricks, there is only one angle. I don't know what's so hard about alternate angles. Did Funimation ever say why they dropped them?

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

I don't know about the double feature movies...

Only the one with the TV specials had them. The ones with the movies didn't.

Did Funimation ever say why they dropped them?

I don't know if FUNi ever said anything, but according to MarcFBR, they caused some bitrate issues.

[xzero]

I don't know if FUNi ever said anything, but according to MarcFBR, they caused some bitrate issues.

This. I used to have the numbers written down, but the bottom line is that alternate angles cause a noticeable drop in quality. Now "noticeable" doesn't mean it goes from "wow, that looks great!" to "what did they do to this?". But it does mean that upon reasonably close inspection, you can clearly see the difference.

[Pokewhiz7]

They should at least give us the Japanese title cards and such if they only have one angle.

[KiddoCabbusses]

They should at least give us the Japanese title cards and such if they only have one angle.

I think this ToonZone discussion brings up this issue. It's an interesting debate with different sides and perspectives to it.

Of note, currently the Dragon Box sets are the first, and so far only, instance of FUNimation going with Japanese-only video since they dropped angles.

[Pokewhiz7]

They should at least give us the Japanese title cards and such if they only have one angle.

I think this ToonZone discussion brings up this issue. It's an interesting debate with different sides and perspectives to it.

Of note, currently the Dragon Box sets are the first, and so far only, instance of FUNimation going with Japanese-only video since they dropped angles.

Which is really what they should do. As far as I'm concerned, placing your logo in the opening credits makes it edited and no longer uncut. Doing so is no different than painting away blood.

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

My stance on visual localization:

If a dubbing company wants to use their own logo, title cards and credits for the dubbed version, that's fine. However, if I'm watching something in its original language, I expect all of that stuff to be left as is (though possibly translated with soft subtitles).

Even if alternate angles are out of the question, I'm sure there's some way to have the appropriate visuals retained for either selected audio track. What if they did this? Have two opening, closing, title card and preview sequences , one set with the localized stuff, and one with the original, and have one automatically be skipped over depending on which language is selected, like the previews on the DBoxes when English is selected.

Like this...

-English audio selected: Japanese OP, ED, title card and NEP skipped.
-Japanese audio selected: English OP, ED, title card and NEP skipped.

Then again, that would add to the running time.

[KiddoCabbusses]

My stance on visual localization:

If a dubbing company wants to use their own logo, title cards and credits for the dubbed version, that's fine. However, if I'm watching something in its original language, I expect all of that stuff to be left as is (though possibly translated with soft subtitles).

Even if alternate angles are out of the question, I'm sure there's some way to have the appropriate visuals retained for either selected audio track. What if they did this? Have two opening, closing, title card and preview sequences , one set with the localized stuff, and one with the original, and have one automatically be skipped over depending on which language is selected, like the previews on the DBoxes when English is selected.

Like this...

-English audio selected: Japanese OP, ED, title card and NEP skipped.
-Japanese audio selected: English OP, ED, title card and NEP skipped.

Then again, that would add to the running time.

Assuming I read you correctly;
If I recall correctly, before Angles were a common feature FUNimation's DVDs did a more complex video swapping technique such as this - "Captain Ginyu - Assault" is the most obvious example I can think of off the top of my head (Every episode had a separate video track for both the English episode and the Japanese one). I believe I recall the first "Bardock - The Father of Goku" DVD did something similar.

This, however, just makes bitrate issues more pronounced, because of the possible redundancies in video/audio tracks that could come from this. It also leads to "Pauses" in the video tracks that aren't in the original and to some are jarring. You also lose the ability to switch audio tracks on the fly and/or lose certain subtitling/closed-captioning options, which is something I personally like fiddling with.

[Gaffer Tape]

They should at least give us the Japanese title cards and such if they only have one angle.

I think this ToonZone discussion brings up this issue. It's an interesting debate with different sides and perspectives to it.

Of note, currently the Dragon Box sets are the first, and so far only, instance of FUNimation going with Japanese-only video since they dropped angles.

Which is really what they should do. As far as I'm concerned, placing your logo in the opening credits makes it edited and no longer uncut. Doing so is no different than painting away blood.

Agreed. If you can only have one set of credits, the original should take precedent. They should do what they did with the DBoxes and place a dub credit roll at the end. And I agree with jpdbzrules4sure that redone credits are fine for the dubbed version, but it's an insult to have it in the original. It's part of the reason why I've never picked up Kai (the others being lack of interest and money, dear boy!) and the blue bricks (the other being hoping for a DBox release).

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

Assuming I read you correctly;
If I recall correctly, before Angles were a common feature FUNimation's DVDs did a more complex video swapping technique such as this - "Captain Ginyu - Assault" is the most obvious example I can think of off the top of my head (Every episode had a separate video track for both the English episode and the Japanese one). I believe I recall the first "Bardock - The Father of Goku" DVD did something similar.

This, however, just makes bitrate issues more pronounced, because of the possible redundancies in video/audio tracks that could come from this. It also leads to "Pauses" in the video tracks that aren't in the original and to some are jarring. You also lose the ability to switch audio tracks on the fly and/or lose certain subtitling/closed-captioning options, which is something I personally like fiddling with.

I see.

Well then, I guess that would mean that it has to be a single video with one set of credits, titles, etc. In which case, they should just use the raw Japanese ones, subtitle the title cards, and use a separate credits sequence for the dub staff either at the end of each disc or at the end of each individual episode.

[jjgp1112]

My stance on visual localization:

If a dubbing company wants to use their own logo, title cards and credits for the dubbed version, that's fine. However, if I'm watching something in its original language, I expect all of that stuff to be left as is (though possibly translated with soft subtitles).

Even if alternate angles are out of the question, I'm sure there's some way to have the appropriate visuals retained for either selected audio track. What if they did this? Have two opening, closing, title card and preview sequences , one set with the localized stuff, and one with the original, and have one automatically be skipped over depending on which language is selected, like the previews on the DBoxes when English is selected.

Like this...

-English audio selected: Japanese OP, ED, title card and NEP skipped.
-Japanese audio selected: English OP, ED, title card and NEP skipped.

Then again, that would add to the running time.

Assuming I read you correctly;
If I recall correctly, before Angles were a common feature FUNimation's DVDs did a more complex video swapping technique such as this - "Captain Ginyu - Assault" is the most obvious example I can think of off the top of my head (Every episode had a separate video track for both the English episode and the Japanese one). I believe I recall the first "Bardock - The Father of Goku" DVD did something similar.

This, however, just makes bitrate issues more pronounced, because of the possible redundancies in video/audio tracks that could come from this. It also leads to "Pauses" in the video tracks that aren't in the original and to some are jarring. You also lose the ability to switch audio tracks on the fly and/or lose certain subtitling/closed-captioning options, which is something I personally like fiddling with.

Yeah, on the singles you couldn't change the audio track during the episode recaps.

Companies not using the raw title cards/credits for their shows may not be preferable to some, but they're understandable. The Dragon Boxes were meant for a niche audience with pretty much no regard for the English dub. But almost every other anime release is mainly trying to push the English dub while the Japanese track is an "extra."

[GotenDaisuki]

Yeah, the Dragon Boxes are marketed to fans of the Japanese version, or "HARDCORE FANS", as FUNimation put it. So, naturally, the Japanese credits and title cards are present. On other DVDs trying to advertise the English dub, the Japanese audio track is just there as an extra little thing that no one interested in the English dub really cares about. So, obviously, as the Japanese voice track is just there as a little extra feature and the DVD manufacturers were putting emphasis on the English version, the original Japanese title cards and credits would obviously not be available. FUNimation's alternate angles on the Bricks and the TV Special Double Feature was a rare case, in my opinion.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, first, it wasn't a "rare case." It was their standard way of doing things for many, many years. Also, while I certainly don't argue that, for some reason, the English dubs of anime are more popular in America than the original version, I think it's a gross devaluing to refer to the original audio track as a "little tacked on extra" too. People in this country who watch with the original audio might be a minority, but we're not THAT much of a minority.