What mix of dub versions will you introduce new fans to?

[VegettoEX]

I've seen a large conversation to classify the original Japanese version as "a dub" (since the actors are "dubbing over" animation; there was definitely a thread here, and I think a long, drawn-out one on one of the various wikis), so to unfortunately re-use a phrase I just spat out in regards to video games, you can't have your cake and eat it too (both to categorize the original Japanese version as "a dub", and then dismiss it as a viable option in a conversation about dubs).

I'm not saying that's absolutely what's going on here, but it's something I've definitely seen out there, so it can be turned right back around .

To be completely serious, again I say: it's a legitimate answer. I would certainly never introduce anyone to the series in English. I have that opinion, and there's nothing stopping me from sharing that opinion, even if it's expanding more on what the topic is than what the first post had to say about it. That's the beauty of conversations -- they evolve!

[Akumaito Beam]

I just don't understand the logic that if I want to introduce someone to the Japanese version of the show instead of the English dub (which has a plethora of issues) suddenly I'm a Japanophile weaboo who thinks he lives in Japan.

Edit: Or am I that way because I wouldn't want to introduce Dragonball to other people the way I first saw it, even though (in my humble opinion) the way I saw it was terrible? Why wouldn't I want to give others a better viewing experience than myself, especially if it was their first exposure to the series? This train of thought is quite frankly, insanely silly.

[Gaffer Tape]

Exactly. For example, many people here from the old days were introduced to the original version via terrible quality fansubs or, worse, awful quality RealPlayer files from the '90s. So does that mean that, since we were introduced to it that way, that's the way we should feel compelled to introduce new people? That just because that's the only way we had it back then, we should be chomping at the bit to show people low-resolution, pirated internet clips? Well, you could make the same argument about the dub. Yeah. I was introduced to the show through the dub. Doesn't mean I have to hold some kind of uber-fanatic loyalty towards it. If simply putting out the opinion that watching the original version makes one a "Japanophile elitist weeaboo," then suggesting defending the dub solely because that's what we were introduced to just sounds like nostalgia goggles to me.

EDIT: But for the record, I'm not in favor of classifying the original version as a "dub."

[Drabaz]

It all depends on what age the new fan is. If it were kids, then I would show them the North American dub. Mostly because at a young age, kids want more action then story. So no matter how flawed the NA dub is (excluding Kai's new dub), kids will enjoy it. But if it were older fans that were atleast around 15 years old and who are mature enough to handle subtitles, I would try and show them the Japanese dub. You really get 2 different experiences from watching both dubs. I say this from personal experience. I was a kid who loved the NA dub for mostly it's action and a little bit of story. Then I grew up and watched the Japanese dub and love it for mostly it's story and a little bit of action. I feel like I got the best of both worlds through that experience. Now if only I had the option as a kid to have started watching the show from the original Dragonball series and to have not gotten spoiler info from a friend about Trunks being Vegeta's son. That would have blown my freakin mind had I not been told about if before!

[Adamant]

I don't see what age has to do with it. Underestimating your children's intelligence is not good for their intelligence. Likewise, assuming they're too dumb to be capable of watching something with subtitles will likely result in them growing up to become too dumb to be capable of watching something with subtitles. Not to mention, if they're very young or very dumb, it'll aid their reading ability, which is always a plus.

[Drabaz]

I don't think a kid wanting more action than story means they are dumb . And I certainly didn't mean a kid is too dumb for subtitles. I distinctly said mature enough. Put a kid infront of a show in Japanese with subtitles and they will most likely complain. Now I know this is not the case with all children, but I believe it is with most.

[Adamant]

Put a kid infront of a show in Japanese with subtitles and they will most likely complain. Now I know this is not the case with all children, but I believe it is with most.

"I think my kid is too dumb/immature for this, so I will not even try to to expose it to it".

Yeah, that's exactly the kind of thought that breeds dumb kids.

We managed to watch our subtitles cartoons just fine here when I was a kid, and I don't think Norwegian kids are genetically superior to kids from wherever you're from.

[Drabaz]

Ouch. I see your point, but I'm saying that kids are immature. They're kids. They're supposed to be immature. And again, immature is not the same thing as dumb. Just because a kid is immature does not mean that he/she is dumb.

[Eddie]

Ouch. I see your point, but I'm saying that kids are immature. They're kids. They're supposed to be immature. And again, immature is not the same thing as dumb. Just because a kid is immature does not mean that he/she is dumb.

Kids learn that behavior, though. If you don't dumb everything down for them, they can handle subs. Hell, some programs teach kids things while putting words on the screen. If anything, modern educational television should be good preparation for subtitles. It's the adults around the child that put the ideas in their head that reading while watching is idiotic.

[Drabaz]

Hmmm, kind of like how kids watch sing-a-long shows. Reading subtitles wouldn't be much different except nobody is singing back with them. Hmmm, you guys are making me think about it more. But I don't think that it's the adults around the child that put the ideas in their head that reading while watching is idiotic. I think it's more of the major absence of subtitles in everyday media that makes it seem wierd to kids when they see it. In America atleast.

[roidrage]

Ouch. I see your point, but I'm saying that kids are immature. They're kids. They're supposed to be immature. And again, immature is not the same thing as dumb. Just because a kid is immature does not mean that he/she is dumb.

Kids learn that behavior, though. If you don't dumb everything down for them, they can handle subs. Hell, some programs teach kids things while putting words on the screen. If anything, modern educational television should be good preparation for subtitles. It's the adults around the child that put the ideas in their head that reading while watching is idiotic.

Doesn't it kind of depend on...the person actually watching? Kids don't watch shows because their parents llke them, they watch shows because they like them. So as a purist, I would prefer the Japanese version, but if my kid wants to watch the dub, who am I to stop him? If I did, it would be imposing my personal preferences.

[Eddie]

Kids don't watch shows because their parents llke them, they watch shows because they like them.

I'm going to have to call bull on this one. I watched plenty of shows, movies, and sporting events with my parents growing up. Shows that I watched simply because my parents liked them. I watched things like Married... With Children, The Shining, and boxing. It's only natural that you'll be exposed to things your parents like.

[roidrage]

Kids don't watch shows because their parents llke them, they watch shows because they like them.

I'm going to have to call bull on this one. I watched plenty of shows, movies, and sporting events with my parents growing up. Shows that I watched simply because my parents liked them. I watched things like Married... With Children, The Shining, and boxing. It's only natural that you'll be exposed to things your parents like.

I'm going to assume due to your wording that you didn't like the shows themselves then, and watched them only because your parents did. Could be the same with Dragon Ball; the kids may watch the Japanese version because their parents do, but they may prefer the dub. And in any event, assuming your kid is going to like something because you do is pretty presumptuous. You can't dictate someone's tastes.

[Adamant]

But I don't think that it's the adults around the child that put the ideas in their head that reading while watching is idiotic. I think it's more of the major absence of subtitles in everyday media that makes it seem wierd to kids when they see it. In America atleast.

And that's why you should make an effort to introduce your children to subtitled movies and TV series, which will help them become culturally aware, literate people.

I mean, it's not like it's going to have any non-positive effects.

[CODii]

The point of the topic was what "dub". I actually have grown tiresome of most of you saying you're true fans because you say any dub sucks and the original JP (but with subtitles!1!!1ones) is better. I can guarantee that most of you claiming to be die hard sub fans grew up on DBZ (not DB) due to either Ocean or FUNimations dub, especially if you're not over the age of 25. I recall a time when all we had was a dub of the Saiyan arc in the US, nothing else (aside from the movies), I resorted to watching the JP version and preferring it at the time. But I will at least admit I was not introduced to DragonBall via a poorly translated sub version and I will also admit I was introduced to DragonBall thanks to the dubs. Anyone here that is actually from Japan, this comment does not concern you.

Prefer whatever you want, but please do not diss on FUNi or Ocean just because you think you grew up in Japan and watched the anime in it's original stature, when in reality you're some white kid from America.

My love of the original Japanese version has nothing to do with any elitist or delusional self opinions as you seem to suggest. Yes I will fully admit that I was introduced to Dragon Ball Z through the Funimation dub on Cartoon Network. That doesn't mean that even back in middle school I wouldn't have preferred to watch the show subtitled. Unfortunately at that time, the original version wasn't really an option for me. If I wanted to watch Dragon Ball Z I had to do it on Cartoon Network and that meant I had to listen to the Funimation cast and Faulconer's music. I still enjoyed watching the show in spite of these things, not because of them. Now that the original Japanese version is readily available, I would never subject somebody to watching what I consider an inferior product in the form of the Funimation dub.

By your logic, the people who are suggesting Funimation's Kai dub are every bit as out of line as those suggesting the original Japanese version. After all, the show Dragon Ball Kai is not the show Dragon Ball Z. All of us here grew up watching Dragon Ball Z. If as you seem to be suggesting, we are only allowed to suggest what we were ourselves introduced to the show through, then nobody can offer Kai as an answer.

But I don't think that it's the adults around the child that put the ideas in their head that reading while watching is idiotic. I think it's more of the major absence of subtitles in everyday media that makes it seem wierd to kids when they see it. In America atleast.

And that's why you should make an effort to introduce your children to subtitled movies and TV series, which will help them become culturally aware, literate people.

I mean, it's not like it's going to have any non-positive effects.

I totally agree. Once I learned how to read (you know somewhere around preschool) I absolutely LOVED to watch subtitled content. At the time it made me feel smart and cool. It was a win-win.

[roidrage]

I totally agree. Once I learned how to read (you know somewhere around preschool) I absolutely LOVED to watch subtitled content. At the time it made me feel smart and cool. It was a win-win.

I totally disagree. We already have books and means of travel to make us culturally aware, literate, people; I can't see why we would need anything else. The point of subtitled anime also isn't (and never has been) to teach kids reading or make them culturally aware, literate, people; it's to assist in comprehension for speakers of a different language, and thus, hopefully, assist in entertainment (and buying). DB has never been an educational show; heck, it's got a lot of things I wouldn't want my kids watching until they're older.

[CODii]

I totally agree. Once I learned how to read (you know somewhere around preschool) I absolutely LOVED to watch subtitled content. At the time it made me feel smart and cool. It was a win-win.

I totally disagree. We already have books and means of travel to make us culturally aware, literate, people; I can't see why we would need anything else. And the point of subtitled anime isn't to help kids read, it's assist in comprehension, and thus, hopefully, entertainment (and buying). DB has never been an educational show; heck, it's got a lot of things I wouldn't want my kids watching until they're older.

Nobody is suggesting that the point of watching subtitled video content is to help kids read, but is having kids reading as much as possible really such a bad thing?

[roidrage]

I totally agree. Once I learned how to read (you know somewhere around preschool) I absolutely LOVED to watch subtitled content. At the time it made me feel smart and cool. It was a win-win.

I totally disagree. We already have books and means of travel to make us culturally aware, literate, people; I can't see why we would need anything else. And the point of subtitled anime isn't to help kids read, it's assist in comprehension, and thus, hopefully, entertainment (and buying). DB has never been an educational show; heck, it's got a lot of things I wouldn't want my kids watching until they're older.

Nobody is suggesting that the point of watching subtitled video content is to help kids read, but is having kids reading as much as possible really such a bad thing?

It seems to me like you're reaching for arguments to shove the original in front of a kid's face simply because you prefer it and because it's more accurate. I agree with both those sentiments, but if the child prefers something a little different, why deny them? It's nice that you enjoyed subtitled content as a kid, but that's you; it's certainly not me when I was that age, and it's not all children.

[CODii]

The question is about how I would introduce someone to the show. If I were hypothetically introducing my child to the show in Japanese, he would never know the Funimation dub anyway. Therefore he couldn't prefer it. An introduction is after all the first time someone sees something.
I never once said that I would keep someone from watching the dub. What I said is that it's most certainly not the way I would introduce them to the show.
Besides, children really do take cues from their parents as to what they should and should not like.

[Eddie]

Kids don't watch shows because their parents llke them, they watch shows because they like them.

I'm going to have to call bull on this one. I watched plenty of shows, movies, and sporting events with my parents growing up. Shows that I watched simply because my parents liked them. I watched things like Married... With Children, The Shining, and boxing. It's only natural that you'll be exposed to things your parents like.

I'm going to assume due to your wording that you didn't like the shows themselves then, and watched them only because your parents did. Could be the same with Dragon Ball; the kids may watch the Japanese version because their parents do, but they may prefer the dub. And in any event, assuming your kid is going to like something because you do is pretty presumptuous. You can't dictate someone's tastes.

Actually I did enjoy all of those, albeit to varying levels. I also never said that my future children absolutely will be Dragon Ball fans. I just said that I will show my children subtitled Dragon Ball. I didn't like everything my parents showed me, but I did enjoy some of the things they introduced me to. For example, my mom introduced me to various things she enjoyed as a child. She introduced me to reruns of Mork & Mindy. I loved the show, and she often taped it for me. Did she introduce me to things I didn't care for? Of course. That's just how it goes, though. Maybe my kids will like Dragon Ball, but there's obviously no guarantee. I actually like quite a variety of stuff. I'll find something to watch with them.