Lucifer is a Ma Kaioh Shin?

[HECTOR4]

Look this conversation in Dragon Ball Wiki:

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Makaioshin

In DB Wiki say that the volume 7 of the Daizenshuu named Lucifer as a Ma Kaioh Shin. Is this true? And they also say that Volume 6 of Daizenshuu already talk about the term Ma Kaioh Shin. Is this true (XD)?

I thought that the terms Ma Kaioh and Ma Kaioh Shin had been invented by A. Toriyama in the DB Super Exciting Guide: Characters Volume. I also think the term was invented for use in the video-game DB Online. And I think that Towa (from DBO) is a Ma Kaioh Shin.

Herms, I need your help!!! XDDD

[Travis Touchdown]

I think you're right. Makaioshin didn't get mentioned until the SEG. I think it talked about the Kaios as a whole race called Shinnjin. They're genderless and born from a tree in the afterlife. They're born from the fruit of the tree and come in 3 varieties;

your standard fruit gives life to shinnjin that are eligible to take the role of a Kaio and are the most common.

The next is the super rare golden fruit that gives life to shinnjin who take the roles of Kaioshin. They're so rare that that's why East Kaioshin was alone in the Buu saga.

Lastly fruit that goes bad or turns rotten give life to the Makaioshin. They're evil from the get-go and immediately sent to the Demon Realm.

I think Makaio is a fan term created because some people couldn't make sense out of there being Kaios and Kaioshins but only Makaioshins to counterbalance them and used the logic that there must be Makaios as well.

[HECTOR4]

I think Makaio is a fan term created because some people couldn't make sense out of there being Kaios and Kaioshins but only Makaioshins to counterbalance them and used the logic that there must be Makaios as well.

Herms talks about Ma Kaiohs here: http://www.kanzentai.com/mini_db.php?id=demon

Herms said that in the Super Exciting Guide Toriyama talks about the Ma Kaioh an Ma Kaioh Shin.

[dbgtFO]

Seems like this 10xKamehameha fellow doesn't know what he's talking about. It's first in SEG: Character Volume, that the term Makaioshin is brought up.

[HECTOR4]

Seems like this 10xKamehameha fellow doesn't know what he's talking about. It's first in SEG: Character Volume, that the term Makaioshin is brought up.

That's what I think ... But I don´t have the volumes 6 and 7 (in Japanese) of Daizenshuu to prove it.

[caejones]

The answer is "no."

I don't mind it as a fan theory, but absolutely not supported by the guidebooks. Makaioshin came about in the SEG, not the Daizenshuu.

Yay, DB Wikia.

[HECTOR4]

The answer is "no."

I don't mind it as a fan theory, but absolutely not supported by the guidebooks. Makaioshin came about in the SEG, not the Daizenshuu.

Yay, DB Wikia.

And how can we prove?

[goldsaint13]

That guy is faaaaaaaaar too weak to be a Makaioshin... Boojack has actually the right power just like Dabra himself... But that Lucifer is weaker than Kami that is weaker than Enma that is Weaker than a Kaio that is weaker than Dai Kaio that is weaker than the weakest Kaioshin...


Don't you think it's too much?

[kaialone]

The answer is "no."

I don't mind it as a fan theory, but absolutely not supported by the guidebooks. Makaioshin came about in the SEG, not the Daizenshuu.

Yay, DB Wikia.

And how can we prove?

On Kanzentai you can read translations of the Daizenshuus,
but the one for Daizenshuu 7 isnt complete, but you can always ask Herms for clarification.

[Herms]

Herms, I need your help!!! XDDD

It's BS. Daizenshuu 7 doesn't say anything like that, and the Super Exciting Guide: Character Volume is the first place the term "Makaioshin" appears, like you thought.

Rule of thumb: if you're reading the DB wikia and find a piece of information that surprises you, probably that information is wrong.

Let's see...conveniently (I guess) they were nice enough to specify an actual part of Daizenshuu 7 that says this, his Human Racial Dictionary bio. I've already translated that for Kanzentai:

Lucifer
Demon King
History: A demon king who plotted to destroy the sun and turn this world into one of darkness. He kidnapped Bulma and tried to make her into a sacrifice. He appeared in "The Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle".
Characteristics: He has the "The Sleeping Princess" gem, which is needed to operate a giant, sun-destroying cannon. At first he had a gentlemanly calm appearance and manner, but when he shows his true colors his face becomes terrifying. He tried to make a toast with Bulma's lifeblood.
Techniques: He fires energy balls from both hands.
Battles: He battled Goku when he came to save Bulma. In the end, he died when the Kamehameha Goku fired made the sun-destroying cannon explode, taking him with it. (Daizenshuu 6, p.24)

So yeah, nothing about him being a Makaioshin. Nears as I can tell, some halfwit must have mistaken the generic title "Demon King" (maou) for "Makaioushin" (Demon Realm King God).

[Fox666]

In DB Wiki say that the volume 7 of the Daizenshuu named Lucifer as a Ma Kaioh Shin.

What surprise me is their lack of skepticism. A random filler character who appeared in the first arcs won't fit a category created in the manga (or at least in supplemental material) near the end of the story. It's so obvious that the Daizenshuu won't wrote such a thing...

[HECTOR4]

Ok, thank you all for helping me take the issue more clear. Thank you, Herms.

But then in volume 6, when speaking of the Other World, nor say anything, right?

[Luke Groundwalker]

Probably not. I think the only Makaioshin we know of is Towa. (and maybe Miira but I think he's implied to be artificial)



I think it's best to assume that if the character looks nothing like this...it probably isn't a Makaioshin. For example, notice the potara earings she has? Just little features like this, would offset a good amount of characters. At most, maybe Dabra and Shura are Makaio, but Lucifer is kind of a different character from both despite his name.

[Herms]

But then in volume 6, when speaking of the Other World, nor say anything, right?

Daizenshuu 6 doesn't say anything about Lucifer being a Makaioshin either, if that's what you're asking.

Probably not. The only Makaioshin we know of is Towa. (and maybe Miira but I think he's implied to be artificial)

Has that been officially confirmed in the game? It seems like logical speculation, what with the earrings that look like Potara and whatnot, but last I heard the game still hadn't established her as a Makaioshin.

[HECTOR4]

Probably not. The only Makaioshin we know of is Towa. (and maybe Miira but I think he's implied to be artificial)

I think it's best to assume that if the character looks nothing like this...it probably isn't a Makaioshin. For example, notice the potara earings she has? Just little features like this, would offset a good amount of characters. At most, maybe Dabura and Shura are Makaioshin, but Lucifer is kind of a different character from both despite his name.

Though maybe there are both Makaioshin and Makaio, just like the Heavenly equivalent.

Yes, that's what I say. Since I saw the trailer of DB Online and saw Miira I suspected the theme of Ma Kaioh Shin. And finally appeared Towa, with the Potala earrings...but nothing is confirmed in the game, but it seems as much as possible. However, in DB Wiki say that Towa is a normal demon girl, and Lucifer is a Ma Kaioh Shin, and possibly also Dabra...U.U

Daizenshuu 6 doesn't say anything about Lucifer being a Makaioshin either, if that's what you're asking.

Ok, thanks for clarification. In DB Wiki say that volume 6, when speaking of the Other World mentioned the term Ma Kaioh Shin.

[kaialone]

Yes, that's what I say. Since I saw the trailer of DB Online and saw Miira I suspected the theme of Ma Kaioh Shin. And finally appeared Towa, with the Potala earrings...but nothing is confirmed in the game, but it seems as much as possible. However, in DB Wiki say that Towa is a normal demon girl, and Lucifer is a Ma Kaioh Shin, and possibly also Dabra...U.U

The DB Wiki also says that Uranai Baba may be Gyumao mother >.>

[Luke Groundwalker]

Has that been officially confirmed in the game? It seems like logical speculation, what with the earrings that look like Potara and whatnot, but last I heard the game still hadn't established her as a Makaioshin.

I think it has been confirmed. I probably should edit my post to include the "I think" part however. Sadly most of what we know of DBO is hearsay at best, and I'd be lying if I said I got it from anywhere else. I remember hearing a while back that both Towa and Miira were Makaioshin when some stuff was being translated from the initial release in Korea. Everyone and their mother on the net has been calling them Makaioshin, but it might just be a persistent rumor without any grounds to it.

[Herms]

However, in DB Wiki say that Towa is a normal demon girl, and Lucifer is a Ma Kaioh Shin, and possibly also Dabra...U.U

The DB wikia is completely unreliable, and that's really all there is to it.

[Luke Groundwalker]

Found what I was looking for:

The Pale Man, Miira

The Pale Man's name is Miira, and the current main goal for players is to uncover and prevent his evil plans. Miira is a humanoid that was created in the Dark Demon Realm (Ankoku Makai), and invaded Earth in Age 2000 to try and conquer it. He recruits the remnants of the Freeza and Red Pants Armies and begins gathering life energy, then travels back in time with a time machine to try and obtain Goku's DNA to become even stronger. Kami-sama (Dende) asks Trunks to prevent this, leading to the formation of the Time Patrol.

You may or may not know that in one of the recent Dragon Ball guidebooks, Akira Toriyama introduced the concept of Makaioshin, corrupted Kaioshin (Supreme Kais) that rule over the Dark Demon Realm (where Dabura is from). It was speculated that he brought this up because he planned to use them in DBO. Though I'm pretty sure Miira isn't a Makaioshin, I feel fairly confident in saying that the female character he's been pictured with probably is, and that she may be the one who created him.

Source: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... &start=420

[Kiyza]

Probably not. The only Makaioshin we know of is Towa. (and maybe Miira but I think he's implied to be artificial)

Has that been officially confirmed in the game? It seems like logical speculation, what with the earrings that look like Potara and whatnot, but last I heard the game still hadn't established her as a Makaioshin.

Yeah, there's definitely speculation about it, but to my knowledge, there hasn't been anything in the game that says, "Oh, hey, she's a Makaioshin." Since she's only present in TMQs, I'd assume that's if she is a Makaioshin, we don't because they don't know what a Kaioshin is at that point. Once the game gets up to the Boo arc, we'll probably know for sure.