Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[lash]

Yes, but I don't make a point of modifying my list every time some random line from the Daiz maybe suggests something else. (But then, I also don't really keep a list.)

CoH recently bumped base kid Trunks up to 18's level based on one line, but something as simple and flat-out stated as "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto"? BLARG IS TOO MUCH/MESSES WITH MY GT POWERS/DENIES SUPERIORITY OF ~GOKU~ or whatever.

I find that interesting too.
Not only that...but I find it interesting how for example some will have no issues accepting and taking to face value something like SSJ2 being twice as strong as SSJ(which aren't even real battle power multipliers). But when it comes to another blatant statement like Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's battle power = Vegetto...in the same exact source they pulled the other one from...we'll make all the excuses in the world not to follow it.
These little fan lists are indeed for fun, but at the end of the day it still ends up incredibly biased. And though we make them as a hobby, I'm pretty sure most try to make these lists as accurate as possible. Otherwise we wouldn't be revising them all the time. Due to biasedness however it pretty much rules them out in accuracy...I wouldn't take the list seriously at all.

[CatouttaHell]

The multiplier just doesn't work and likely wasn't meant to be taken literally. It just means Vegetto is way stronger than Goku and Vegeta. In the manga Base Vegetto transformed instantly to deflect a blast Gohan-Boo fired at him. In the Anime he was still below Gohan-Boo according to their dialogue. It was another typical Toei warm-up fight, like SSjin 2 Goku vs. Pure Boo and Base Saiya-jins vs. #13/#14/#15. Very obvious by the fact that Gohan-Boo gave Super Vegetto trouble. He made him fear for his life and use Shunkan Ido to escape one of his attacks, and was equal to him when Pure Boo's power bursted out.

For that multiplier to work you'd have to have Base Gotenks (Post) >>> SSjin Gotenks (Pre) and really low numbers before the fusions, and neither are possible using the official 50x boost due to how close together Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and the brats are in power, and how insanely high the Base Saiya-jins are shown and stated to be in the Boo Arc.

[p123]

Yea, AxB is probably one of the least taken seriously claims from the Daiz.. Also, I don't follow the Daiz at all...

Plus, from my POV, Base Vegetto > Gohan probably makes sense...


Base Gotenks Post > SSJ Gotenks Pre > Kid Buu >= SSJ3 Goku > Fat Buu > Base Gotenks Pre


Suggests that Super Saiyan is a 2x boost or so for Fusion Level people.


So with that, Base Vegetto should be probably around Buutenks level or so IMO. But that's highly up to one's POV..




COH made an update...


Bear Thief > Bob Sapp > Mr Satan = 10 What do you think?







Also, I included Gokan and Gokule using Potara ... Here are my formulas, I'll include Vegetto as...



( Mr Satan x 750 ) + Base Goku = Base Gokule

( Base Goku x750 ) + Gohan = Base Gokan

( Base Vegeta x 750 ) x2 ( Rivals Boost ) = Base Vegetto

[CatouttaHell]

Yeah, I follow all of the guidebooks and even I don't take AxB seriously. That's ridiculous. Even if Goku and Vegeta were at 3,000,000 each that'd be absurd bloating. There's absolutely no implications that Base Vegetto >= Gohan-Boo, only the opposite. Plus Base Saiya-jins are far, far above 3,000,000. Base Goku >> Base Gohan >>> Piccolo >> Base Goten (Pre) >= #18 is what is heavily implied IMO. There's just no way to make a multiplier like that work.

Yeah Vegetto's strength is definitely an unknown. I have Base Vegetto really low but that's because I use a 50x boost. If you use a smaller boost like 2x there's really no way around Base Vegetto being a monster. Anime-wise I think a 2x boost is implied. Base Vegetto puts up a fight against Gohan-Boo, then goes Super Saiya-jin and has trouble with him on multiple occasions. Even a 3x boost in that situation is a stretch IMO. The way I see it:

Manga-wise: 50x boost everywhere
Toei-wise: Anywhere from a 2x to a 5x boost everywhere after Movie 6

I'm still on the fence about Base Gotenks Post > SSjin Gotenks Pre. I mean there's definitely many strong implications for it and it would forcefully align the manga with the Anime's 2x SSjin multiplier, but it's hard to take anything from that part of the story seriously. I mean you have Base Trunks surviving an off-guard punch from Evil Boo...

I personally believe Mr. Satan is only 5 because while he has physical strength, he's ignorant of Ki and never did any Ki training. By my physical strength numbers, I have:

Initial Chibi Goku - 100
Bear Bandit - 30
Mr. Satan - 20

He's definitely a monster by real life human standards but he just can't compete with cartoonishly strong monsters like Goku and even the Bear Bandit IMO.

[Rocketman]

The multiplier just doesn't work and likely wasn't meant to be taken literally.

It works fine, you just don't like it.

Lovin' how "A x B = C" is NOT LITERAL NO SIR but "displayed strength on par to" GEE WHILIKERS I GUESS BASE KID TRUNKS CAN BEAT 18!

[CatouttaHell]

It works fine, you just don't like it.

Lovin' how "A x B = C" is NOT LITERAL NO SIR but "displayed strength on par to" GEE WHILIKERS I GUESS BASE KID TRUNKS CAN BEAT 18!

Chibi Base Trunks has feats. He held his own against #18 in a clown suit and was above Goten who isn't far from Gohan whose base is flat-out stated to be far above Piccolo. What feats does Base Vegetto have? Instantly transforming to deflect a Ki blast from Gohan-Boo?

[lash]

The multiplier just doesn't work and likely wasn't meant to be taken literally.

It works fine, you just don't like it.

Glad someone said it.


Let me also add the fact that Vegetto doesn't have to be a thousand times stronger than Super Boo. Simply make Super Boo closer to normal Vegetto. Problem solved.

For that multiplier to work you'd have to have Base Gotenks (Post) >>> SSjin Gotenks (Pre) and really low numbers before the fusions, and neither are possible using the official 50x boost due to how close together Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and the brats are in power, and how insanely high the Base Saiya-jins are shown and stated to be in the Boo Arc.

Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre), and the 50x SSJ multiplier, and Base adult saiyans being at least > 18, all work fine for me.

[p123]

I would absolutely love to see someone make Base Vegeta x Base Goku = Base Vegetto and have Base Vegetto weaker than Buuhan. Absolutely love!

It's an impossibility. Plus, do you really think those guys put more than half a thought into that formula? Lol. The only way they could be accurate at all, is if they maintained a power level list for the entire series. Cmon guys, don't be so blind..

[Kaboom]

I admit, I don't entirely like the 'GOKU X VEGETA' formula for Vegetto's power, either. It totally underrates him.

[p123]

Haha, yea I just heard of your infinity stuff. THat's pretty awesome I'm not going to lie... But really man,

Buuhan > Base Vegetto

and Gokan is at least on Vegetto's strength, if not superior. We don't really know how strong Base Vegetto is, but Base Gokan is probably plenty for Buutenks...

[Kaboom]

"Gokan" is a funny case, though. Goku and Gohan's powers work entirely differently at that point; Goku gets an overwhelming majority of his from three stacked transformations, whereas Gohan has all of his compacted into his normal state.

That said, a Fusion of them through Potara might be some sort of weird combination of both power setups... with an extremely high base form and then a Super Saiyan transformation that maybe only doubles or triples his power or something, instead of the usual 50x boost for everyone else.

Perhaps the Old Kaioshin was thinking something like that when he told Goku that transforming probably wouldn't be necessary. It would have been interesting to see, one way or another.

[Rocketman]

Goku and Gohan's powerups cancel each other out and there's no rivalry boost, so Gokhan is base Goku + base Gohan and unable to transform at all. Ha ha ha ha ha. 8)

[CatouttaHell]

I finally caved and redid my GT levels with a 3x SSjin boost. 50x boost may be fact in Toriyama world but pretty much everything in Toei world suggests a very small boost. It also allows for a nice 500x multiplier for SSjin 4 and for GT Base Gohan > Ultimate Gohan and GT Base Goku > Pure Boo > Chaotic Gohan-Boo =< SSjin Vegetto, both of which I feel are implied.

Baby Arc

Son Gokū
~ SSjin 4 - 4,000,000,000,000,000
~ Golden Ozaru - 160,000,000,000,000
~ Theoretical True Power - 192,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 3 - 72,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 2 - 48,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin - 24,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 8,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ SSjin - 13,500,000,000,000
~ Base - 4,500,000,000,000

Trunks
~ SSjin - 4,800,000,000,000
~ Base - 1,600,000,000,000

Son Goten
~ Baby Power-up - 4,900,000,000,000
~ SSjin - 2,400,000,000,000
~ Base - 800,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Baby Power-up - 8,500,000,000,000
~ SSjin - 6,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 2,000,000,000,000

• The GT Perfect Files stated Gohan didn't neglect his training, and since Ki and magical power-ups can't atrophy it makes the most sense for his base to be above his base/Ultimate from the Boo Arc. He only got a 1.5x boost in 15 years because most of the training probably went into getting back his SSjin and SSjin 2.

Son Pan
~ Enraged - 6,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 1,200,000,000,000

• Trunks saying Enraged Pan > him is a gag but when other power comparisons are taken into account it actually makes perfect sense.

Piccolo - 5,000,000,000,000

Baby
~ Adult - 3,600,000,000,000
~ Teenager - 2,500,000,000,000
~ Baby Form - 1,200,000,000,000

Mr. Boo - 80,000,000,000

Redjic - 7,000,000,000,000

Super Mega Cannon Sigma - 6,000,000,000,000
Neji - 2,000,000,000,000
Veise - 2,000,000,000,000
Rivet - 2,000,000,000,000
Nutt - 1,000,000,000,000

Dr. Mu - 30

Leon - 1,000

Dolltacki - 10

Lord Lood - 12,000,000,000,000

Cardinal Mutchi Mutchi - 5,000,000,000,000

General Rild
~ Metal Rild - 25,000,000,000,000
~ Hyper Mega Rild - 14,000,000,000,000
~ General Rild - 8,000,000,000,000

Oob
~ Super Oob - 20,000,000,000,000
~ Post-Training - 10,000,000,000,000
~ Beginning of GT - 8,000,000,000,000

• Baby played around with him and he had to get purposefully turned into a candy and eaten just to be useful. Everything after this arc suggests he's weak as crap too.

Vegeta-Baby
~ Vegeta-Baby - 80,000,000,000,000
~ Super Vegeta-Baby - 160,000,000,000,000
~ Super Vegeta-Baby II - 480,000,000,000,000
~ Golden Ozaru Vegeta-Baby - 4,800,000,000,000,000

Super #17 Arc

Son Gokū
~ SSjin 4 - 6,000,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin - 36,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 12,000,000,000,000

Super #17
~ Post-Absorptions - 9,000,000,000,000,000
~ Initial - 45,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Exhausted SSjin 2 - 36,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 2 - 48,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin - 24,000,000,000
~ Base - 8,000,000,000,000

Piccolo - 10,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ SSjin 2 - 33,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin - 16,500,000,000,000
~ Base - 5,500,000,000,000

Trunks
~ SSjin - 12,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 4,000,000,000,000

Son Goten
~ SSjin - 9,900,000,000,000
~ Base - 3,300,000,000,000

Son Pan
~ Enraged - 7,500,000,000,000
~ Base - 1,500,000,000,000

General Rild - 7,500,000,000,000

Super Oob - 24,000,000,000,000

Cell - 750,000,000,000

Freeza - 1,200,000,000

Nappa - 10,000,000

Evil Dragons Arc

Son Gokū
~ SSjin 4 - 6,000,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin - 36,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 12,000,000,000,000

Son Pan
~ Enraged - 7,500,000,000,000
~ Base - 1,500,000,000,000

Liang Xing Long - 1,000,000

• Considering he tanked bullets without flinching and survived hits from freaking ENRAGED PAN, I'd say the scene of him hopping around in pain from a falling rock is a gag that should be ignored.

Liu Xing Long - 16,000,000,000,000

Qi Xing Long
~ In Mole - 50,000,000,000,000
~ In Pan - 5,000,000,000,000,000
~ True Form - 1,000,000

San Xing Long - 4,500,000,000,000,000

Si Xing Long
~ Second Form - 5,500,000,000,000,000
~ First Form - 18,000,000,000,000

• Stated to be above Goku in speed but below in power.

Yi Xing Long
~ 7 Dragon Balls - 180,000,000,000,000,000
~ 6 Dragon Balls - 36,000,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 18,000,000,000,000,000

Son Gokū (Beyond Limits)
~ SSjin 4 - 24,000,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 48,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Haxed SSjin 4 - 20,000,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 2 - 54,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 9,000,000,000,000

Gogeta
~ SSjin 4 - 800,000,000,000,000,000
~ Base - 1,600,000,000,000,000

[p123]

Kaboom, my method of Potara makes Gokan and specifically Gokule work very well I might add. Since they are of the same set...


I think Gokule proves that fusion is based off of the Base Saiyans power...

So here's my set....


Base Goku 3,000,000,000
Mr Satan 10


If Metamoran was possible, which it's not here, it would result in Gokule, being weaker than Goku, like how he suggests. Goku questions if he would get weaker, or just a tiny bit stronger. IMO i Interpreted that to mean Metamoran would make him weaker, and Potara will not allow for a fusion to get weaker...


so... Metamoran.... Take the weaker fighter's base power and x by 250...



(Mr Satan 10 ) x 250 = Base Metamoran Gokule 2,500


As we can see, Goku dwarfs Base Metamoran Gokule.


Now with Potara, which is superior to MEtamoran in boost, and also in an issue like that as well ( IMO ) we get...


Mr Satan 10 x 750 = Base Potara Gokule 7,500 + Base Goku = 3,000,007,500



See what I mean?


Now with Goku and Gohan, the space between Base Goku and Gokan is far less than Base Goku and Mr Satan. So Base Goku can actually boost Gohan a bit as hes suggested to be able to probably be plenty for someone who is clearly superior to him...




I may have went to far, is anyone keeping up with me? Or did I just make a mess?

[Godo]

New update of my powelevels:

Arrival of Raddtiz:

Radditz: 1,500
Piccolo with weighted clothing: 319
Goku with weighted clothing: 329
Piccolo without weighted clothing: 407,5
Goku without weighted clothing: 415,5
Piccolo's Makankosappo, first attempt: 1,329
Goku (Kamehameha): 1,001
Gohan's anger burst: 1,307,5
Radditz (Injured): 450
Goku (Injured, last energy): 400
Piccolo's Makankosappo, second attempt: 800

Saibamen and Nappa fighting the Earthlings

Nappa (initial) : 2,000
Nappa (powerup, 1st): 3,000
Nappa (blast against Gohan): 3,500
Nappa (powerup, 2nd): 4,000
Nappa (mouth blast): 4,500
Saibamen: 1,200
Yamucha: 1,250
Kuririn: 1,400
Kuririn (attack): 6,000 divided in 5
Tenshinhan: 2,000,000
Tenshinhan (startled by Nappa): 2,000
Tenshinhan (Kikoho): 2,500
Piccolo: 2,500
Gohan: 1,500
Gohan (Masenko): 2,500


Goku fighting Vegeta

Vegeta: 18,000
Goku: 5,000
Goku Powered Up: 8,001
Goku Kaioken x2: 16,002
Goku Kaioken x3: 24,003
Goku Kaioken x4: 32,004
Vegeta (Gallic Ho): 30,000
Vegeta (after fake moon): 9,000
Oozaru Vegeta : 90,000
Spirit bomb (failed): 50,000
Vegeta (after Oozaru): 8,500
Kuririn's Spirit Bomb: 50,000
Vegeta (after explosion): 2,500
Gohan: 1,500
Oozaru Gohan: 15,000
Vegeta (weakened): 1,000
Yajirobe: 300,000,000
Yajirobe(hungry): 500

Vegeta fighting Dodoria
Vegeta: 24,000
Dodoria: 21,000

Vegeta fighting Zarbon
Vegeta: 24,000
Zarbon: 22,000
Zarbon (true form): 33,000
Vegeta (PASARFANDE): 35,000

Vegeta, Gohan and Kuririn fighting Ginyu Force

Kuririn: 15,000
Gohan: 16,000
Gohan (Masenko): 20,000
Vegeta: 35,000
Guldo: 2,000
Recoome: 45,000

Goku fighting Ginyu Force

Goku (Bursts): 60,000
Goku (Kaio-ken): 180,000
Jheese: 50,000
Burter: 46,000
Recoome: 45,000
Ginyu: 120,000

Nail fighting Freeza

Nail: 42,000
Freeza (suppressed, form 1): 400,000


Vegeta fighting Freeza (first meeting)

Vegeta: 350,000
Freeza (suppressed, form 1): 400,000
Freeza (full power, form 1): 530,000
Freeza in first transformation (suppressed, form 2): 900,000

Piccolo fighting Freeza

Piccolo (with weights): 950,000
Piccolo (without weights): 1,200,000
Freeza in first transformation (full power, form 2): 1,050,000
Freeza in second transformation (form 3): 2,500,000


Vegeta fighting Freeza (2nd Time)

Vegeta: 2,500,000
Vegeta’s huge angry blast: 3,500,000
Freeza in third transformation (form 4), using 3% power: 3,600,000

Goku fighting Freeza

Freeza in third transformation (form 4), using 3% power: 3,600,000
Freeza in third transformation (form 4), using 33% power: 39,600,000
Freeza in third transformation (form 4), using 50% power: 60,000,000
Freeza in third transformation (form 4), full force: 120,000,000
Goku: 3,000,000
Goku Kaioken x10: 30,000,000
Goku Kaioken x20: 60,000,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku: 150,000,000

Trunks and fighting King Cold and Freeza

King Cold: 3,000,000
King Cold (second transformation): 6,000,000
King Cold (third transformation, full power): 600,000,000
Freeza: 125,000,000
Trunks (Supressed): 5
Super Saiya-jin Trunks: 150,000,000
Super Saiya-jin Gokou: 175,000,000

Android Saga

Super Saiyan Goku (healthy): 250,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku (riddled with disease): < 150,000,000
Super Saiyan Trunks: 150,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 260,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta Big Squallahalla: 300,000,000
Piccolo: 80,000,000
Gohan: 2,000,000
Android 16: 450,000,000
Android 17: 370,000,000
Android 18: 350,000,000
Android 19: 50,000,000
Android 19 (absorbing Goku’s kamehameha): 100,000,000
Android 19 (absorbing Goku’s remaining ki): 120,000,000
Android 20: 50,000,000
Piccolo (after merging with Kami): 370,000,000
Cell (initially): 300,000,000
Cell (after absorbing humans): 450,000,000
Cell (after absorbing Android 17): 650,000,000
Tenshinhan: 3,000,000,000
Tenshinhan (intimidated by Cell’s 2nd form’s appearance): 50,000
Tenshinhan’s magically enhanced Shin Kikoho: 500,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta (After time chamber): 750,000,000
Ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta: 1,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Trunks (After time chamber): 700,000,000
Ascended Super Saiyan Trunks: 900,000,000
Super Ascended Super Saiyan Trunks: 1,750,000,000
Perfect Cell (suppressed): 1,200,000,000

Cell Arc

Piccolo: 600,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 1,100,000,000
Super Saiyan Trunks: 1,000,000,000
Mastered Super Saiyan Gohan: 1,750,000,000
Mastered Super Saiyan Goku: 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan: 3,500,000,000
Perfect Cell (vs Goku) : 1,500,000,000
Perfect Cell (vs Gohan): 1,800,000,000
Perfect Cell (Full power): 2,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 3,500,000,000

Buu Arc

Note: From here henceforth, any Super Saiyan has mastered the Super Saiyan. The 50x multiplier is thus not in work.

Piccolo: 750,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan: 1,250,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 1,750,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 2,000,000,000
Trunks: 3,200,000
Goten: 3,000,000
Super Saiyan Trunks: 300,000,000
Super Saiyan Goten: 280,000,000
Android 18: 350,000,000
Kaioshin: 500,000,000
Kibit: 6,000,000
Yamu: 50
Spopovitch: 75
Videl: 12
Mr. Satan: 10
Dabura: 1,500,000
Fat Buu (initially): 5,000,000,000
Fat Buu (vs. Vegeta): 7,000,000,000
Fat Buu (vs. Super Saiyan 3 Goku): 10,000,000,000
Majin Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: 4,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 4,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 12,000,000,000
Super Buu: 20,000,000,000
Gotenks: 200,000,000
Super Saiyan Gotenks: 5,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks: 22,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Gohan (after Z sword training): 2,000,000,000
Mystic Gohan: 30,000,000,000
Super Buu (w/ SSJ3 Gotenks & Piccolo): 42,750,000,000
Majin Buu (w/ Trunks, Goten & Piccolo): 20,756,200,000
Majin Buu (w/ Piccolo, Trunks, Goten & Gohan): 50,756,200,000
Vegetto: 600,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegetto: 100,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Vegetto: 200,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto: 800,000,000,000
Chibi Buu: 11,000,000,000
Mr. Buu: 5,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 12,000,000,000
Goku's Chou Genkidama (made of Genki, not Ki!): 25,000,000,000

[CatouttaHell]

Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre), and the 50x SSJ multiplier, and Base adult saiyans being at least > 18, all work fine for me.

I'm assuming you either have Goten and Trunks much, much weaker than the adults before the RoSaT or eclipsing their powers after? Both contradict the manga, which is why it's impossible to do that with a 50x boost. Goten is implied to rival Gohan and he was even worried that they would both overtake them. If Goten and Trunks get 50x stronger then they'd roflstomp Goku and Vegeta.

[lash]

Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre), and the 50x SSJ multiplier, and Base adult saiyans being at least > 18, all work fine for me.

I'm assuming you either have Goten and Trunks much, much weaker than the adults before the RoSaT or eclipsing their powers after? Both contradict the manga, which is why it's impossible to do that with a 50x boost. Goten is implied to rival Gohan and he was even worried that they would both overtake them. If Goten and Trunks get 50x stronger then they'd roflstomp Goku and Vegeta.

Not really.

Goten is implied to rival a rusty out of shape Gohan who has barely lifted a muscle in 7 years. After training for the 25th Tournament, I don't see why he couldn't leave Goten in the dust himself.

It's like an out of shape track star athlete who hasn't raced in 7 years, all of a sudden deciding to race against a little prodigy kid and barely winning. If that athlete gets back into the rhythm, I don't see what's stopping him from stomping the child if they were to go for a rematch, even if he himself never got as good as he was in his youth. Muscle memory would quickly get him near his peak in a shorter amount of time.

[CatouttaHell]

Not really.

Goten is implied to rival a rusty out of shape Gohan who has barely lifted a muscle in 7 years. After training for the 25th Tournament, I don't see why he couldn't leave Goten in the dust himself.

It's like an out of shape track star athlete who hasn't raced in 7 years, all of a sudden deciding to race against a little prodigy kid and barely winning. If that athlete gets back into the rhythm, I don't see what's stopping him from stomping the child if they were to go for a rematch, even if he himself never got as good as he was in his youth. Muscle memory would quickly get him near his peak in a shorter amount of time.

Gohan was shown sweating from and getting a serious run for his money while training with Goten. He was even worried Goten and Trunks would overtake him, and the Daizenshuu says Gohan = Goten.

There's also Trunks landing a hit on Vegeta. The two brats are no joke. Absolutely nothing implies they're worlds below Goku/Vegeta/Gohan IMO. Don't forget Goten and Trunks also agreed to and were confident fighting in the Tenkaichi Budoukai in base despite Piccolo entering.

[Fox666]

Androids

- Son Goku: 3,400,000
--- Super Saiyan: 170,000,000
--- debilitated: 34,000,000
- Vegeta: 3,600,000
--- Super Saiyan: 180,000,000
--- after training: 800,000,000
--- Grade II: 1,200,000,000
- Trunks: 3,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 150,000,000
--- after training: 700,000,000
--- Grade II: 1,050,000,000
- Piccolo: 110,000,000
--- Merged with Kami: 220,000,000
- Yamcha: 10,000
- Kuririn: 20,000
- Tenshinhan: 30,000
- Gohan: 500,000

- Android no.19: 20,000,000
--- power-up: 40,000,000
--- max power: 100,000,000
- Android no.20: 30,000,000
- Android no.18: 210,000,000
- Android no.17: 220,000,000
- Android no.16: 450,000,000
- Cell: 200,000,000
--- power-up: 450,000,000
--- Semi-perfect: 700,000,000
--- max power: 900,000,000
--- Perfect: 1,800,000,000
- Son Goku (50%): 1,600,000,000

Cell Games

- Son Goku: 3,200,000,000
- Son Gohan: 3,300,000,000
--- Super Saiyan 2: 6,600,000,000
- Vegeta: 2,300,000,000
- Trunks: 2,200,000,000
- Piccolo: 2,000,000,000
- Yamcha: 10,000
- Kuririn: 20,000
- Tenshinhan: 30,000

- Perfect Cell: 3,600,000,000
--- max power: 4,500,000,000
--- power-up: 6,700,000,000
- Cell Jr.: 2,300,000,000

Babidi

- Son Goku: 70,000,000
--- Kaio-ken x10: 700,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 3,500,000,000
--- Super Saiyan 2: 7,000,000,000
- Vegeta: 68,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 3,400,000,000
--- possessed by Babidi: 3,500,000,000
--- Super Saiyan 2: 7,000,000,000
- Son Gohan: 64,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 3,200,000,000
--- Super Saiyan 2: 6,400,000,000
- Son Goten: 50,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 2,500,000,000
- Trunks: 52,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 2,600,000,000
- Kaioshin: 3,000,000,000
- Piccolo: 2,000,000,000

- Pui-pui: 34,000,000
- Yakon: 800,000,000
- Dabura: 4,500,000,000
- Majin Boo: 15,000,000,000

Evil Boo

- Son Goku: 70,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 3,500,000,000
--- Super Saiyan 3: 28,000,000,000
- Son Goten: 50,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 2,500,000,000
--- after training: 2,700,000,000
- Trunks: 52,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 2,600,000,000
--- after training: 2,800,000,000
- Gotenks: 220,000,000
--- Super Saiyan: 11,000,000,000
--- Super Saiyan 3: 88,000,000,000
- Son Gohan: 64,000,000
--- after training: 70,000,000
--- Ultimate Warrior: 96,000,000,000
- Vegetto: 5,600,000,000 (according to SEG: 4,900,000,000,000,000)
--- Super Saiyan: 280,000,000,000

- Majin Boo: 15,000,000,000
--- pure evil: 30,000,000,000
- Evil Boo: 90,000,000,000
--- Gotenks-absorbed: 180,000,000,000
--- Gohan-absorbed: 188,000,000,000

[lash]

Gohan was shown sweating from and getting a serious run for his money while training with Goten. He was even worried Goten and Trunks would overtake him, and the Daizenshuu says Gohan = Goten.

There's also Trunks landing a hit on Vegeta. The two brats are no joke. Absolutely nothing implies they're worlds below Goku/Vegeta/Gohan IMO. Don't forget Goten and Trunks also agreed to and were confident fighting in the Tenkaichi Budoukai in base despite Piccolo entering.

Gohan's out of shape. Gohan's concerned because he's out of shape and the two brats who are like half his age at that point in time really would overtake him if he didn't start seriously training. The Daizenhuu's entry is vague, and never specifics when exactly and which Gohan equals Goten. I could even take it to mean Post RoSaT Goten = Gohan , or leave it to be Goten = Pre Training Ultra Rusty Gohan.

So he grazed Vegeta. That means absolutely nothing other than Vegeta underestimating him, or being much more exhausted than he thought after his own workout. Our understanding of "worlds below" simply differ. Absolutely nothing says they even knew Piccolo was entering to fight.