FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Rukura » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:00 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:The people referring to the backlash forget that the damn thing sold like hotcakes. Sure, the more intuitive people complained about cropping and such but some people here act like it was a financial bomb. Season 1 was the best selling anime release of 2007 even only figuring in a couple of months of sales.
The reasoning behind that was simply the price point, and the fact that it was the only consistent release of the entire seasons.

Where as now there are 2 complete releases (or there will be by the time this new release starts)
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:04 pm

Beyond this forum I've never heard many people complain about the quality of the sets. Not many people particularly care beyond us and other video experts and such.
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Ashura » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:04 pm

Also, here, let me provide an example for you of how even standard def upscales to blu-ray aren't a bad thing.

Image

This is a picture of Roger Smith from the Big O. Hi Roger!

He is sourced from a slide projection likely captured from the original film elements. This is not a screenshot from the DVDs; it came to me as a 4761x3483 tif for use in an article I was writing for a magazine back in the mid 2000s. Here is a sample of the original file in all its grainy goodness. I scaled this huge tif down to a height of 540, and then cropped it to a width of 720 to get a 4:3 image.

Image

This was then further scaled down to digibeta resolution, 720×486. This is what a frame would roughly look like on a digibeta master for any digitally produced standard def show, and even some film shows which were later copied to digibeta... like I believe Dragon Ball GT was?

I then saved this as a PNG as my standard def source file. It is my base. I then created two branches from this.

First, this one:

This is a direct upscale from the original uncompressed image to 1080p, ran through a compresser, and resaved as a png. This is theoretically what a Bluray made from our standard def Big O Digibeta would look like:

http://www.twistygadget.com/stuff/upsca ... cale02.png

I then ran it through compression first, just like a DVD, and then upscaled it to 1080p and resaved it as a PNG. This is roughly what a DVD sourced from a Digibeta would look like upscaled onto your HDTV:

http://www.twistygadget.com/stuff/upsca ... cale01.png

Note how much the three little spikey bits of Roger's hair are wracked with compression on the back of his head in particular. Poor Roger!

(If you think I'm being unfair to DVD, here it is with half the compression: http://www.twistygadget.com/stuff/upsca ... sion01.png ... still a notable difference in artifacts.)

Even with DVDs mastered from the best-of-the-best materials -- just like the Dragonboxes -- this is roughly what you're getting on DVD when you upscale it with your player. It's just the nature of compressing a smaller image like this and scaling it up.

So, in conclusion.

If done right: Upscale first, Compression last > Compression first, Upscale last. And that's straight standard def material; 16mm is higher definition. So yeah, if properly handled, going from those 16mm film masters to Bluray does have a great chance of looking quite a bit better.
Last edited by Ashura on Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by kemuri07 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:33 pm

penguintruth wrote:Who, exactly, are they trying to appeal to here?

English dub fans can get the same quality, with more episodes, and less expensively, with the orange Season Sets.

Fans of the Japanese version aren't going to buy something with less quality than the Dragon Boxes. And an upscale of the crappy orange sets are going to be a step down from the Dragon Boxes. Funimation doing the remastering? You might as well let random people on the internet do it.

This release essentially shouldn't appeal to anyone. So the people who'll buy it are bone dumb.
You do realize that most people who are going to buy this probably don't give a shit. Everyone complaining about this blu-ray are considered to be the "vocal minority."

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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:03 am

Might as well bring home again that the Orange Brick masters were 1080p to start with. There's no upscaling going on here.
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Ashura » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:12 am

The orange bricks were derided all over the anime sphere when they first came out. It just died down long before here -- since people still complain about it here like it's relevant -- but it was an issue to people who are discerning about video quality all the same.

The orange bricks sold despite the quality... because they were cheap to purchase and marketed to casual buyers in Wal Mart. If you were to drop the dragonbox footage in a similar style, cheaply marketed digipack it would've sold exactly the same because the people who would bump into it would honestly not care so long as Goku and Vegeta punch each other at some point.

At the time where Funimation 'remastered' these episodes, they really didn't know a whole heck of a lot about HD in general. They very quickly changed their tune about DVNR on their bluray upscales after people complained to high heaven about stuff like Samurai Champloo and Burst Angel.

They're going into this with a better eye toward what they're doing. They've done numerous good releases in HD from all sorts of source material. It's likely that the reason the press release implies they're redoing the remastering is because it's not up to snuff to their current standards.

With their new website, they've also changed a lot of the ways they target customers. I wouldn't doubt that we'll see stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfbCzQ5fq9A for this release.

The only reason I can think of for such a low episode count is either Toei mandate or an attempt to try to fund any redubbing. If they redubbed Z with the Kai cast I wouldn't really shy away from buying it just because I've enjoyed the Kai dub so much... it's actually what got me back into DB after 12 years of shunning the thing. But with me saying that, I understand it's unlikely.
Might as well bring home again that the Orange Brick masters were 1080p to start with. There's no upscaling going on here.
Yes, they're from the 16mm film stock. My point was to prove that EVEN upscaled anime improves on BluRay over DVD, so transferring DBZ from 16mm to Bluray isn't as useless as some people are saying. :/
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Innagadadavida » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:29 am

I will not be quadruple-dipping. I already have the orange bricks, the dragon boxes, Z Kai, and the Ocean dub box set. This release is not for me. That being said, I think it is an interesting move and I wish FUNimation the best of luck on it. I hope this release does very well for them. Weeeelll... Okay. The only way I could see myself buying this, is if it is uncropped and the remastering and color correction actually looks good. Even then, I will only buy the Buu saga. I already have Z Kai on BRD.

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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Kendamu » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:36 am

As the first one will be coming out in November and the second in December, I'm guessing it'll be fairly often and at a lower price point than we might expect.

Still, I'm surprised that people seem to think that something is inherently wrong with releasing a title on Blu-ray when it hasn't been before. That's the only thing that needs to actually be different. New format. Sure, it might not do much for the show, but it's pretty standard practice whether they do a good job or not. We all knew it was going to happen. Otherwise you guys better start counting VHS and DVD as two separate releases as well so we'll have two more things to show side-by-side in screenshots.

Triple dipping? Quadruple dipping? Well, yeah, don't do it if you don't need it. But a lot of fans probably only have the Orange Bricks. Upgrading to Blu-ray isn't going to seem as big of a deal to them.

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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Vegeta1984 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:57 am

Damn... With only 17 episodes per set it will be like 18 of these 2 disc Blu-Rays to complete the set....
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Codarik » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:03 am

After all these sets are released, watch FUNimation re-release them again in bigger box sets.

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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Gotham22 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:14 am

penguintruth wrote:Who, exactly, are they trying to appeal to here?

English dub fans can get the same quality, with more episodes, and less expensively, with the orange Season Sets.

Fans of the Japanese version aren't going to buy something with less quality than the Dragon Boxes. And an upscale of the crappy orange sets are going to be a step down from the Dragon Boxes. Funimation doing the remastering? You might as well let random people on the internet do it.

This release essentially shouldn't appeal to anyone. So the people who'll buy it are bone dumb.
We don't even know what this will look like. 50/50 chance it could be better than the season sets.
Codarik wrote:After all these sets are released, watch FUNimation re-release them again in bigger box sets.
Just like past releases. The single, UUE, Season Sets, Complete Series (GT), Dragon Boxes, Kai Volumes/Parts and Now releasing Kai with with more episodes in a set.
Vegeta1984 wrote:Damn... With only 17 episodes per set it will be like 18 of these 2 disc Blu-Rays to complete the set....
They could get 17 sets with the first 15 having 17 episodes and the last 2 sets with 18 episodes.
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Ashura » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:30 am

Codarik wrote:After all these sets are released, watch FUNimation re-release them again in bigger box sets.
Hi. This is called good business. Why would you expect them not to do this?

You know they'll likely re-release Kai in one huge box once it's all out on Bluray too, right? Right?
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Corporate_Nothing » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:37 am

*sigh*

Here's hoping Funimation is wise enough to master this in 4:3 and not 16:9, and to redo the entire digital remastering process to avoid the same mistakes of the DVD release. Only time will tell...
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:43 am

Ashura wrote:
Codarik wrote:After all these sets are released, watch FUNimation re-release them again in bigger box sets.
Hi. This is called good business. Why would you expect them not to do this?

You know they'll likely re-release Kai in one huge box once it's all out on Bluray too, right? Right?
Exactly. People seem to ignore the fact that people like money. Not just Funimation, not just Hollywood directors, but pretty much everyone. To not do something because it will frustrate a minority of a fanbase, many of whom will still buy the product, would be bad business. Blu-Ray has been around for around five years now.... it's here to stay. Yes, DVDs are fine for many, but a lot of people like to buy things on the newest format. Practically everything is being put onto Blu-Ray these days, so why not Dragon Ball?
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by MarcFBR » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:31 am

Kingdom Heartless wrote: Exactly. People seem to ignore the fact that people like money. Not just Funimation, not just Hollywood directors, but pretty much everyone. To not do something because it will frustrate a minority of a fanbase, many of whom will still buy the product, would be bad business. Blu-Ray has been around for around five years now.... it's here to stay. Yes, DVDs are fine for many, but a lot of people like to buy things on the newest format. Practically everything is being put onto Blu-Ray these days, so why not Dragon Ball?
Yep yep.

Plus, another way to think of it for people who still don't understand why they would rerelease again- DBZ rereleases fund them taking chances on quirky licenses that might not be successful.


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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Rukura » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:36 am

I just wish FUNimation could release their stuff in Europe, through sub-licenses or whatever. The rights for the manga release of Dragon Ball that we're getting in Portugal were actually obtained from VIZ. (though 15 years later and still no anime release...)
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by coola » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:05 am

I kinda feel sorry for Chris Sabat,he talked about how Z Kai dub is great,and almost apologised for bad dub of DBZ,only for Funimation to yet again re-release series with same bad dub,on the other hand,director of Funimation is Gen Fukunaga,and he was director since DBZ times,so it`s him,who should be blamed
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:21 pm

Kingdom Heartless wrote:Exactly. People seem to ignore the fact that people like money. Not just Funimation, not just Hollywood directors, but pretty much everyone. To not do something because it will frustrate a minority of a fanbase, many of whom will still buy the product, would be bad business. Blu-Ray has been around for around five years now.... it's here to stay. Yes, DVDs are fine for many, but a lot of people like to buy things on the newest format. Practically everything is being put onto Blu-Ray these days, so why not Dragon Ball?
Unless the majority of people find something significant that they don't like on their current release, I can't see why they need to upgrade. At the end of the day, if you like your release and take good care of it, it'll last you for the rest of your life.

And who in their right mind likes money?

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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:28 pm

As someone else said, what's the harm in simply bringing it to a different format. What's the point in releasing anything that's already come out on DVD on Blu-Ray, by your logic? Hell, what was the point in taking any movie that was previously available on VHS "special editions" with all of the extras coming in after the credits and re-releasing them on DVD 10 years ago?
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Re: FUNimation to put DBZ on Blu-Ray

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:33 pm

I can still see the business logic applying for newcomers to the franchise but for the existing fans who are happy with their release, it's good enough for them. They have more important things they need to be using their money for like bills, food, taxes, cars, and all that other jazz. Why should they be pressured into buying a new release of something they're already happy with?

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