FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

[Gaffer Tape]

I don't think people here are complaining just because the series is being released on Blu-ray. At least I know I'm not. I know I'm only complaining because the admittedly little evidence we have points to it being a release that's a step backwards rather than step forwards. And that is a problem. Not the milking but the poor decisions that come along with it.

Dude, it was a joke.

Um... yes. And I responded with my own joke. What's your point?

[funrush]

After all these sets are released, watch FUNimation re-release them again in bigger box sets.

Hi. This is called good business. Why would you expect them not to do this?

You know they'll likely re-release Kai in one huge box once it's all out on Bluray too, right? Right?

The problem is though, Funimation has already released the series on 30-40 episode sets on DVD twice now. Now they bring the quality up to 1080p and they expect us to buy twice the amount of sets? That's not good business, that's greed.

[jjgp1112]

There is no morality in business. If it makes money, then do it. They're not gonna forgo releasing this just because a minority segment of the fanbase doesn't like it.

[Gaffer Tape]

And that's why I'm also mad at the fanbase. What incentive does FUNimation have to release good products when all they have to do is slap some crap together, and everybody buys it anyway? Vote with your wallets, people!

[Rukura]

There is no morality in business. If it makes money, then do it. They're not gonna forgo releasing this just because a minority segment of the fanbase doesn't like it.

I think that's part of the problem. The minority doesn't want it because it's a step back from what they have. The others will still look at the shelves and either see that they already have the same (or better, at this point) or simply look at all 4 releases of what they think is the same....and maybe not get anything. Then, it's simply not helping anyone.

[jjgp1112]

People are gonna see Blu-Ray and 1080p HD and instantly see it as a reason to get it. You can apply that kind of "It's useless" logic to any old movie that's been re-released on Blu-Ray.

[Rukura]

People are gonna see Blu-Ray and 1080p HD and instantly see it as a reason to get it. You can apply that kind of "It's useless" logic to any old movie that's been re-released on Blu-Ray.

So that means that they all sell like crazy?
And even if you go about it in another angle, a lot of those are from the 80's. A lot of that stuff hadn't been released SINCE the 80's. When was the last time that Dragon Ball Z was released?....Oh, wait....Dragon Box 7 drops in a few months. On going.

[jjgp1112]

How many "SUPER SPECIAL ULTRA EDITION" releases have movies like the Lion King had? Movies like Pinnochio, Bambi, and Sleeping Beauty have been constantly re-released on a home video format since the beginning of time. The treatment Dragon Ball Z has gotten isn't some unique pattern. And not only that, but the Dragon Boxes are aimed at a smaller market. As far as their target audience is concerned, they haven't had to care about a release since May 2009.

[Rukura]

How many "SUPER SPECIAL ULTRA EDITION" releases have movies like the Lion King had? Movies like Pinnochio, Bambi, and Sleeping Beauty have been constantly re-released on a home video format since the beginning of time. The treatment Dragon Ball Z has gotten isn't some unique pattern. And not only that, but the Dragon Boxes are aimed at a smaller market. As far as their target audience is concerned, they haven't had to care about a release since May 2009.

Not quite. For the most part, most of those were repackagings of pre-existing material. Either that, or new entries for the new formats (isn't Lion King just now coming to Blu-ray or something?)

Dragon Ball Z has had the original masters released (edited and uncut, loads of times going back to vhs and dvd), the new print they got and remastered, and now the Dragon Boxes.

All of those were new masters, thus new products (sorta kinda) even though the content was more or less the same. With this Blu-ray release, that's no longer the case.

[Ashura]

All of those were new masters, thus new products (sorta kinda) even though the content was more or less the same. With this Blu-ray release, that's no longer the case.

How is this not a new product? DVD does not equal Bluray. They're completely different beasts all the way around. All they've released on Bluray so far are the movies and Kai.

I think people should also put away the jump to conclusions mat on what these will look like and wait until after we start seeing actual promotion and fact based information about this release before it's judged. I mean, if you were to take the press release verbatim... they only mention the original dub with the Funimation music score and nothing else. So of course it must be dub only, because nothing else is mentioned about the audio or subtitles, right!?

I'm surprised no one's jumped to that ridiculous conclusion yet.

[Pokewhiz7]

People are gonna see Blu-Ray and 1080p HD and instantly see it as a reason to get it. You can apply that kind of "It's useless" logic to any old movie that's been re-released on Blu-Ray.

I'm sure there will be at least some people who won't buy it and just get them on DVD because FUNimation was incredibly misleading and made it seem like the DVDs were in HD.

[Rukura]

All of those were new masters, thus new products (sorta kinda) even though the content was more or less the same. With this Blu-ray release, that's no longer the case.

How is this not a new product? DVD does not equal Bluray. They're completely different beasts all the way around. All they've released on Bluray so far are the movies and Kai.

True. But every previous release was different in that they were...not as great as they could be. Then came the Dragon Boxes (so as far as that goes, it might as well count as the FIRST full quality release of the series), and they're not even done with that. And there's also Kai.

But for the regular Joe that doesn't know about any of that, it's basically just, and nothing more than, another release of the same thing on the shelves. (And since others have pointed out that everyone here is a vocal minority...i guess that's pretty much what this release will be labeled as. Another one)

[jjgp1112]

I think the average Joe will definitely know the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray. Yes, they may not be the most perceptive, but you're selling them too short. One of the draws of Blu-Ray in the first place is that it's *not* DVD and most importantly, has 1080p HD quality. If it weren't for that, nobody would give a damn about Blu-Ray in the first place. If people were as dumb as you're saying they'd be buying Blu-Ray discs without even having an HDTV or a Blu-Ray player.

[Rukura]

you're selling them too short. One of the draws of Blu-Ray in the first place is that it's *not* DVD and most importantly, has 1080p HD quality. If it weren't for that, nobody would give a damn about Blu-Ray in the first place.

It's because of the average Joe only wanting HD that the show was made widescreen with the Orange Bricks (you'd be surprised at how many people think widescreen = HD. Or maybe you already know). Am i really selling the average Joe short?
I think HD and Blu-ray are awesome....for material that has been made for such a release in high definition. I don't really feel like getting Dragon Ball or Predator, for example, in Blu-ray.

[Ashura]

It's because of the average Joe only wanting HD that the show was made widescreen with the Orange Bricks (you'd be surprised at how many people think widescreen = HD. Or maybe you already know). Am i really selling the average Joe short?
I think HD and Blu-ray are awesome....for material that has been made for such a release in high definition. I don't really feel like getting Dragon Ball or Predator, for example, in Blu-ray.

The Average Joe of 2007, when those DVDs were made? No, you're not selling them short.
The Average Joe of 2011, where the idea of how HD works has been beat into them? Yes, you're selling them short.

Despite how bumpy it turned out, the PS3 came out in November 2006, and is the 'gateway drug' to Bluray and HD movie consumption. The Orange Brick DVDs started to be released in early 2007. There was no actual BluRay penetration then, there was something like 10 titles available, and HD was more of a buzzword than something they'd completely figured out. Hell, _1080p_ TVs were super expensive and the way people were going was 720p/1080i.

Now, look at the release of Rango. Almost 50% of the sales of Rango were Bluray for the first week.

Funimation has released NUMEROUS Blurays at this point, which is why I have a more of a 'wait and see' attitude before judging this release. You should realize it's okay for you to say 'this release is not for me' but also understand why it exists. There will likely be a decent jump in quality vs. the orange bricks... just not one you like or feel is worthwhile. But that doesn't mean the release shouldn't exist all the same. There's a reason you have other options, like the Dragon Boxes.

In my mind, these episodes were stored in 16mm for a reason, and I'd like to see them at the very least without SD macroblocking and blurred details all over the place, even if it isn't the same clarity as 35mm film.

[MarcFBR]

In my mind, these episodes were stored in 16mm for a reason, and I'd like to see them at the very least without SD macroblocking and blurred details all over the place, even if it isn't the same clarity as 35mm film.

I agree with you on most of your points.

I've generally been more defensive towards Funimation on all of this but the main issue is... these aren't pristine 16mm 'master copies' or even pristine copies. These are Nth generation copies that have tons of damage, and we know Funimation and VPT don't have the time to properly fix whatever issues they could fix, not to mention the issues they can't, like color degradation causing detail issues.

[Ashura]

I've generally been more defensive towards Funimation on all of this but the main issue is... these aren't pristine 16mm 'master copies' or even pristine copies. These are Nth generation copies that have tons of damage, and we know Funimation and VPT don't have the time to properly fix whatever issues they could fix, not to mention the issues they can't, like color degradation causing detail issues.

We really don't know _what_ masters they're using for this release. At some point Funimation re-upped their contract on Dragonball with Toei for another five years. In that deal, they also likely got new perks and responsibilities. They got access to the Dragonbox we know, but who knows what else the deal entailed?

We know that Toei has been pushing into HD, trying to reinvigorate their back catalogue, and then also that they're trying to do it with money consciousness in mind. More and more these Japanese companies are working together with the Americans on these projects to try to make things more cost effective. If it shakes out that Funimation and Toei are working together on this remaster I wouldn't be surprised, because Toei can then bring these masters back to Japan and dump them onto Bluray for a lot more profit than them doing all the remastering themselves. This very thing just happened with Funimation with Samurai Champloo, even though that was just an upscale.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this /wasn't/ the case, and that we're just getting the orange brick masters dumped onto bluray verbatim... but we really don't know enough at this point to judge. Heck, we don't even know if there's going to be a Japanese voice track or not.

[Metalwario64]

We know that Toei has been pushing into HD, trying to reinvigorate their back catalogue, and then also that they're trying to do it with money consciousness in mind. More and more these Japanese companies are working together with the Americans on these projects to try to make things more cost effective. If it shakes out that Funimation and Toei are working together on this remaster I wouldn't be surprised, because Toei can then bring these masters back to Japan and dump them onto Bluray for a lot more profit than them doing all the remastering themselves. This very thing just happened with Funimation with Samurai Champloo, even though that was just an upscale.

I don't think that's happening, because the press release mentions that Steve Franko is behind the remastering, so I think that cancels out it being a joint effort between FUNimation and Toei.

I also don't get why if these are new masters that they would return to the guy that they abandoned at Season Six when the sets started improving.

[Ashura]

I don't think that's happening, because the press release mentions that Steve Franko is behind the remastering, so I think that cancels out it being a joint effort between FUNimation and Toei.

Just so you know, in business terms, 'working together' usually means that one entity (Toei in this case) foots part of the bill (in one way or another) to pay another entity (Funimation) to do something for cheaper than it would take for each of them to do it independently. It could also mean they got access to better masters.

But like I said, we reaaaally don't know one way or the other _what_ they're doing or working from, and I don't think people should jump to conclusions that it's awful until we see a preview of it and confirm that it's horse shit.

[MarcFBR]

We really don't know _what_ masters they're using for this release. At some point Funimation re-upped their contract on Dragonball with Toei for another five years. In that deal, they also likely got new perks and responsibilities. They got access to the Dragonbox we know, but who knows what else the deal entailed?

Your logic breaks down when the point of logic is hit that, as far as 'scanning' the film goes, that could easily be done in Japan, and they certainly wouldn't risk something happening to them in transport to Texas and then back to Japan.

And Champloo is more of a case of the Japanese being aware that the 2nd upscale Funimation did is just the best that show is going to look and getting that digital master rather than spending the money to do anything themselves. It isn't really a 'working together' type thing. All the solicitations in Japan even just refer to it as the 'USA master' with no mention of some 'joint' work being done on it.

And my last point....

The fact that no such BDs have been announced for Japan for DBZ...

A few odd off releases in the early day of BD Funimation got away with largely as tests. A pristine DBZ release before it's even announced in Japan. Not gonna happen.