Toriyama's works exist in a single canon?

[Fox666]

Chichi wears that chinese clothing.

[Savage68]

I would need a more compelling reason, but if that works for you.

[Luke Groundwalker]

I'm really hard pressed to not believe there isn't cultural divisions when there clearly is. For example it's quite obvious Chichi is meant to be Asian, while Videl and Mr. Satan are Westerners.

I think you're confusing different ideas. DB Earth is united into a single worldwide country. This becomes part of the story when Piccolo overthrows the king who rules over the entire world. This does not mean that there aren't different races or cultural variation. For instance, the United States is a single country, but has different races and cultural differences between regions.

I think you're confusing what I was saying. I'm saying that these cultures must exist in some form or another, due to the variety of stuff we've seen in the Dragonworld, even if it's set on a single continent, would it really be out there to say that maybe a part of the continent was actually "America" or "Japan" in the far past?

You can't really have Egyptian pyramids without Egypt at some point, and that's all I'm really saying.

How is it obvious that Chichi is meant to be Asian?

All of her clothes are Asian, her hair is dressed Asian in every incarnation (the hime cut gives it away), she looks Asian, and iirc she lives in Eastern areas...she must be Asian. I don't think there isn't much to debate there. There's definitely different ethnic and cultural groups in the series by all means.

[Bussani]

You can't really have Egyptian pyramids without Egypt at some point, and that's all I'm really saying.

The Mushroom Kingdom has "Egyptian pyramids" without Egypt.

[Luke Groundwalker]

You can't really have Egyptian pyramids without Egypt at some point, and that's all I'm really saying.

The Mushroom Kingdom has "Egyptian pyramids" without Egypt.

Well yeah...the Mushroom Kingdom is like a flip version of our reality in-canon. Our reality still exists in Mario world afterall. But I'm not going to go further into Mario canon which I actually know quite a bit about, but I don't think it's really the same type of comparison here.

[Taku128]

You can't really have Egyptian pyramids without Egypt at some point, and that's all I'm really saying.

The Mushroom Kingdom has "Egyptian pyramids" without Egypt.

Well yeah...the Mushroom Kingdom is like a flip version of our reality in-canon. Our reality still exists in Mario world afterall. But I'm not going to go further into Mario canon which I actually know quite a bit about, but I don't think it's really the same type of comparison here.

If you knew a lot about Mario canon you'd know there's no such thing as Mario canon.

I don't see why Egypt's existence is necessary for the invention of Egyptian style pyramids. It's a fictional story that takes place in its own universe, there's no reason it has to fit in with our rules and history. Electricity seems to exist in the Dragon Ball world, does that mean Benjamin Franklin existed in Dragon Ball? No. There's no reason that because pyramids exist that there Egypt had to exist at some point. For the sake of this argument, let's say I wrote a story where pyramids exist in a world and universe in which humans never did and never will, and I flat out state in it that Egypt never existed. Explain your way around that.

And where the hell did you get the idea that our world exists in "Mario canon"? The shitty live action movie Nintendo had no direct input on? The shitty cartoons Nintendo had no direct input on? The shitty edutainment games Nintendo had no direct input on?

[Akumaito Beam]

I personally like to think that Penguin Village exists at the axis of two alternate dimensions, so it's simultaneously on DB Earth and some alternate Earth, or maybe many alternate Earths. The place is unusual for DB Earth and in Dr. Slump itself is an odd place by that world's standards, so I think it's just a sub-reality all its own.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. The anime even showed Goku and Blue going through this techno colored void during a high speed chase before landing on Penguin Villiage.

[Luke Groundwalker]

And where the hell did you get the idea that our world exists in "Mario canon"? The shitty live action movie Nintendo had no direct input on? The shitty cartoons Nintendo had no direct input on? The shitty edutainment games Nintendo had no direct input on?

Those are all based off real material. Mario's backstory being from Brooklyn is completely legit (and his last name), no matter how shitty those works are.

I don't see why Egypt's existence is necessary for the invention of Egyptian style pyramids. It's a fictional story that takes place in its own universe, there's no reason it has to fit in with our rules and history. Electricity seems to exist in the Dragon Ball world, does that mean Benjamin Franklin existed in Dragon Ball? No. There's no reason that because pyramids exist that there Egypt had to exist at some point. For the sake of this argument, let's say I wrote a story where pyramids exist in a world and universe in which humans never did and never will, and I flat out state in it that Egypt never existed. Explain your way around that.

True but there's not any reason to why things like that have no relation to Egypt in the Dragonball world, since it's primarily based off a kind of alternate version of the real world already. In the manga you have reference to America (happening only once does not disqualify it), so if that exists why not Egypt? There really isn't any excuse to why it wouldn't be, just in a different form like everything else in Dragonball treats real world stuff. I completely agree with Herms in that the entire Dragonball setting is a kind of amalgam of various nations and cultures into a single setting, but I don't think the Dragonworld existing invalidates any other country from existing in some form. Why couldn't the top left half once be known as "America," for example? There is no real limit here.

The only thing invalidating that when trying to discuss Dragonball's relation to Dr. Slump is that Dr. Slump uses the traditional globe as it's version of Earth. Then again Dragonball too has had traditional Earth globe in the series before, but correct me if that doesn't appear in the manga.

[Bussani]

Why couldn't the top left half once be known as "America," for example?

Why couldn't it have once been known as "Harblfrable" and just had a flag that looks remarkably like America's? No one's saying it's impossible that those countries existed in some form at some time--just that it isn't necessary.

[Luke Groundwalker]

Why couldn't the top left half once be known as "America," for example?

Why couldn't it have once been known as "Harblfrable" and just had a flag that looks remarkably like America's? No one's saying it's impossible that those countries existed in some form at some time--just that it isn't necessary.

Well it is necessary when Dr. Slump is meant to exist in the same continuity and makes direct, dialogue references to America. Personally however I think there was a shift overtime when it came to how the Dragonball geography was supposed to look. The base setting of Dragonball is similar to Dr. Slump in which there's this world where people and animal-people casually co-exist, with some shared themes like "real world, but some futuristic stuff." It started out with a setting that follows directly from Dr. Slump, hence we seeing real world locations expressed in the series like America or Egypt in the manga and even more-so in the anime (and this continues in Z-era and the movies). It really wasn't till after the series was finished in which we got an official world map anyway. If we didn't have that picture to look upon I'm more than willing to bet we would be saying that the Dragonball World has the same geography we do.

[Savage68]

All of her clothes are Asian, her hair is dressed Asian in every incarnation (the hime cut gives it away), she looks Asian, and iirc she lives in Eastern areas...she must be Asian. I don't think there isn't much to debate there. There's definitely different ethnic and cultural groups in the series by all means.

I never said there weren't. I asked how it's obvious that she's Asian, and frankly, I still don't get it. I definitely don't think she "looks Asian" at all.

[caejones]

Why couldn't the top left half once be known as "America," for example?

Why couldn't it have once been known as "Harblfrable" and just had a flag that looks remarkably like America's? No one's saying it's impossible that those countries existed in some form at some time--just that it isn't necessary.

Well it is necessary when Dr. Slump is meant to exist in the same continuity and makes direct, dialogue references to America. Personally however I think there was a shift overtime when it came to how the Dragonball geography was supposed to look. The base setting of Dragonball is similar to Dr. Slump in which there's this world where people and animal-people casually co-exist, with some shared themes like "real world, but some futuristic stuff." It started out with a setting that follows directly from Dr. Slump, hence we seeing real world locations expressed in the series like America or Egypt in the manga and even more-so in the anime (and this continues in Z-era and the movies). It really wasn't till after the series was finished in which we got an official world map anyway. If we didn't have that picture to look upon I'm more than willing to bet we would be saying that the Dragonball World has the same geography we do.

It took me quite a while to realize that DB isn't set in a world with the same geography as ours, seeing as I wrote / planned fanfiction that implied that Goku lives in Japan.

I think even without the map to look at, though, there would be a pretty strong consensus that the geography differs from our own. The question would probably come up more often, though.

[Rocketman]

Also the flag has 18 stars and 9 stripes, so it's not the American Flag.

[Taku128]

And where the hell did you get the idea that our world exists in "Mario canon"? The shitty live action movie Nintendo had no direct input on? The shitty cartoons Nintendo had no direct input on? The shitty edutainment games Nintendo had no direct input on?

Those are all based off real material. Mario's backstory being from Brooklyn is completely legit (and his last name), no matter how shitty those works are.

So because the backstory happened in some spin-off products not made by Nintendo it means that backstory is canon? By that logic the Mushroom Kingdom is a video game world even within the fiction, because in the 1986 anime movie Mario gets sucked into a Famciom game and goes through the story of Super Mario Bros. If that's not what you're saying, then show me where in any of the games it claims Mario is from Brooklyn and his last name is Mario.

To go even farther, in Super Mario RPG you can find Link and Samus sleeping in beds. Link appears in Soul Calibur II as a playable character, and in the PSP Soul Calibur Kratos from God of War is a playable character. Samus, on the other hand, makes a cameo appearance in Dead or Alive Dimensions, and a Halo character appears in Dead or Alive 4. There's never been official statements that any of these cross-overs are non-canon. This would mean that Super Mario, God of War, and Halo all take place within the same continuity. I could take this way farther even without getting to Smash Bros, but I won't, because it's pointless. It's pointless because, even without official word, it's obvious that none of this is true. You don't need official word to know that Mario, God of War, and Halo don't take place in the same universe, or that the Mario isn't from Brooklyn, or that Egypt didn't exist in the Dragon Ball world.

Also the stork in Yoshi's Island that delivers Baby Mario never goes through a warp pipe to get to the Mushroom Kingdom. Are you now going to tell me that after Yoshi's Island, Mario's parents moved from the Mushroom Kingdom to Brooklyn, and then Mario and Luigi later came back to the Mushroom Kingdom? Where does the Mario anime movie work into that? I'd think it's even canon-er than the cartoons and movies since it was made in Japan.

[dbgtFO]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is how exactly do Toriyama's works link up? Is there a speculated timeline for this?

I don't think so. Toriyama tends to use elements like character designs, settings etc. from his prior works in new stories, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they all exist within the same universe.

In Dragon Ball Forever Neko Majin Z and Toccio the Angel are talked about a little, but in what context?

[Luke Groundwalker]

So because the backstory happened in some spin-off products not made by Nintendo it means that backstory is canon? By that logic the Mushroom Kingdom is a video game world even within the fiction, because in the 1986 anime movie Mario gets sucked into a Famciom game and goes through the story of Super Mario Bros. If that's not what you're saying, then show me where in any of the games it claims Mario is from Brooklyn and his last name is Mario.

To go even farther, in Super Mario RPG you can find Link and Samus sleeping in beds. Link appears in Soul Calibur II as a playable character, and in the PSP Soul Calibur Kratos from God of War is a playable character. Samus, on the other hand, makes a cameo appearance in Dead or Alive Dimensions, and a Halo character appears in Dead or Alive 4. There's never been official statements that any of these cross-overs are non-canon. This would mean that Super Mario, God of War, and Halo all take place within the same continuity. I could take this way farther even without getting to Smash Bros, but I won't, because it's pointless. It's pointless because, even without official word, it's obvious that none of this is true. You don't need official word to know that Mario, God of War, and Halo don't take place in the same universe, or that the Mario isn't from Brooklyn, or that Egypt didn't exist in the Dragon Ball world.

Also the stork in Yoshi's Island that delivers Baby Mario never goes through a warp pipe to get to the Mushroom Kingdom. Are you now going to tell me that after Yoshi's Island, Mario's parents moved from the Mushroom Kingdom to Brooklyn, and then Mario and Luigi later came back to the Mushroom Kingdom? Where does the Mario anime movie work into that? I'd think it's even canon-er than the cartoons and movies since it was made in Japan.

Umm no, sorry but you really need to step back and calm down for a second. Typing all of this out, when you're blatantly factually wrong on this subject isn't doing you very good. Mario officially comes from Brooklyn, and that ISN'T from the movie and cartoons but rather the movie and cartoons took that from the official backstory and adapted it on their own terms. Whatever happened that resulted in Mario being in the Mushroom Kingdom is more or less unknown admittedly, but this is what Miyamoto said in an interview last year:

Q: Mario is Italian. Or we assume he is Italian, was there something behind that?
As a kid, I was a big comic fan and I liked foreign comics as well. So I drew some characters that had more western type features with a little bigger noses and what not. Now with Mario, I think with Mario Bros. we had a setting of course that was underground, so I just decided Mario is a plumber. Let's put him in New York and he can be Italian. There was really no other deep thought other than that.

Source: http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... miyamoto/1

There really isn't any denying that Mario comes from the real world...in Mario canon, initially. Whether that changed or not is up for debate I guess. He also was the one who said Mario Bros. full name are Mario Mario and Luigi Mario (which makes sense cause, you know...Mario Bros.)

But really enough of talking about Mario lore (which is practically non-existent) it simply isn't a good example when talking about Dragonball since it already has links directly to a version of the real world.

I don't think so. Toriyama tends to use elements like character designs, settings etc. from his prior works in new stories, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they all exist within the same universe.

Well I'm more interested in what fans have to say more-so than Toriyama, like Dayspring's rants. I'm curious in how he believes all of the works line up in order.

[Travis Touchdown]

I don't believe all of Toriyama's works fit into a single canon. I think Dragon World is only visited in Dr. Slump, Dragon Ball, & Neko Majin Z. Possibly Pola & Roid. I've never read it nor can I find it anywhere on the internet aside from a single image, but supposedly characters from Dr. Slump make an appearance? I dunno, I'd have to read it. I don't really think of Neko Majin or SandLand as fitting into Dragon World just because of similar character designs.

[Michsi]

I also don't think all of Toriyama's works exist in single canon.

DB and Dr. Slump might, since they crossed paths on more than one occasion, but I think it's mostly just Toriyama preferring fantasy worlds and all of them having similar elements , dinosaurs and stuff like that.

[caejones]

Well, if it's any help, I tend to go along with the "Vegeta lied about working for Freeza, and Kuriza and Onio were just really, really out of the loop" explanation for Neko Majin Z fitting in to Dragonball canon.

I am, however, not anywhere near familiar enough with Toriyama's other works to attempt the sort of things Dayspring has.