Gogeta's strength

[vegetaslegacy15]

Why do people on here think Gogeta is a lot weaker than Vegetto? On every other forum I've been on I have always heard and kind of figured that Gogeta=Vegetto. Not saying anyone's wrong; it would just be appreciated if someone would explain the logic to me.

[CatouttaHell]

I really like Gogeta but he's absolutely nothing compared to Vegetto IMO. I think SSjin 3 Gogeta is only on par with Gotenks-Boo and is millions of times weaker than Gohan-Boo and Vegetto to be honest. I have:

SSjin Vegetto - 12,800,000,000
Base Vegetto - 256,000,000
SSjin 3 Gogeta - 128
Gotenks-Boo - 125.3

There's just no real way Gogeta can be that powerful. Goten is stated in the Daizenshuu to be equal to Gohan, at the very least they're rivals going only by the manga. The biggest gap there can realistically be between Gogeta and Gotenks is like 2x IMO.

Meanwhile Vegetto is stated in the Super Exciting Guide to be GokuxVegeta, so he is worlds and worlds above Gogeta.

[hleV]

Why do people on here think Gogeta is a lot weaker than Vegetto? On every other forum I've been on I have always heard and kind of figured that Gogeta=Vegetto. Not saying anyone's wrong; it would just be appreciated if someone would explain the logic to me.

It's officially stated by Daizenshuu that Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta (in battle powers!). Looking at Gotenks, he's nowhere near Goten x Trunks, so Gogeta would also be nowhere near Goku x Vegeta, probably because Metamorian Fusion has no rival boost.

Vegetto being that strong makes sense, he's like an end-game character of DB. A character that by all means is the strongest. Forever.

[dbgtFO]

Why do people on here think Gogeta is a lot weaker than Vegetto? On every other forum I've been on I have always heard and kind of figured that Gogeta=Vegetto. Not saying anyone's wrong; it would just be appreciated if someone would explain the logic to me.

It's officially stated by Daizenshuu that Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta

You mean the SEG: Story Volume.

Vegetto being that strong makes sense, he's like an end-game character of DB. A character that by all means is the strongest. Forever.

I agree.

As for topic Potara Merging produces a stronger result than Fusion, so since Gogeta and Vegetto consist of the same ingredients, Vegetto is stronger, since he's using a superior form of merging.

By how much is debatable. I personally think Gogeta would only be slightly superior to Gohan-Buu as opposed to Vegetto, who is far superior to him only using Super Saiyan.

[Fox666]

probably because Metamorian Fusion has no rival boost

I really hate how people say "rival boost". That sounds like poor writen fanfiction of sort.

Based on Rou Kaioshin answer, it is not because of the Potara

Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”

Based on this, I don't think that metamorian or Potara would result in beings of different levels of strength. The difference is that the Potara is much more effective since it's permanent and doesn't consume energy like the metamorian technique.

[dbgtFO]

@Fox666
Daizenshuu 7's Item Dictionary outright states the Potara Earrings produce a stronger result than the equvalent Fusion variant.

[vegetaslegacy15]

Why do people on here think Gogeta is a lot weaker than Vegetto? On every other forum I've been on I have always heard and kind of figured that Gogeta=Vegetto. Not saying anyone's wrong; it would just be appreciated if someone would explain the logic to me.

It's officially stated by Daizenshuu that Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta (in battle powers!). Looking at Gotenks, he's nowhere near Goten x Trunks, so Gogeta would also be nowhere near Goku x Vegeta, probably because Metamorian Fusion has no rival boost.

Vegetto being that strong makes sense, he's like an end-game character of DB. A character that by all means is the strongest. Forever.

Okay so is it ever stated what the equation is for the fusion dance? Or is it never stated in the Daizenshuu?

[dbgtFO]

Okay so is it ever stated what the equation is for the fusion dance? Or is it never stated in the Daizenshuu?

It isn't. There's only a vague one for Potara and a straight-forward ~VEGETTO~ formula, presumably because Goku used that power-up method, since that section mostly focuses on Goku's power-ups.

[Fox666]

Yeah, like dbgtFO said the Daizenshuu and Super Exciting Guide it only covers Goku's power-up. For that reason, we don't have any info about the metamorian fusion, Super Saiyan Grade II and III, and the battle powers of many characters are omitted (i.e. Ginyu Tokusentai).

I am still not sure about that multiplication formula. In the manga the fusion appear to be influenced by many factors (i.e. rivalry), so I wouldn't expect it to be measurable, much like near-death power-ups.

Besides "multiplication" sounds like an exact formula, to the point I would expect to be the default conditions rather than a special case for Vegetto. And Kibitoshin doesn't appear to be gain a significant power-up. Not to mention Goku was reluctant of performing the fusion with Mr. Satan or Dende.

[hleV]

probably because Metamorian Fusion has no rival boost

I really hate how people say "rival boost". That sounds like poor writen fanfiction of sort.

Based on Rou Kaioshin answer, it is not because of the Potara

Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”

Based on this, I don't think that metamorian or Potara would result in beings of different levels of strength. The difference is that the Potara is much more effective since it's permanent and doesn't consume energy like the metamorian technique.

Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”

Elder Kaioshin told that Vegetto was so strong because of Goku and Vegeta's strength. Yet he still added the rivalry boost thing, which implies that Goku and Vegeta's strength wasn't everything that made Vegetto so powerful.

Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta.
Kibitoshin ≠ Kibito x Kaioshin.

Vegetto is a multiplier of Goku and Vegeta's battle power is because of that god damn rivalry boost, I see no other explanation.

[InfernalVegito]

I don't have the impression that Gogeta is THAT much weaker than Vegetto. I think SSJ Gogeta could beat Gohan-Buu with ease.
Vegetto is simply stronger because of the potaras in my view. When he gave Goku his earrings he also said that they are more powerful. At least in the German Dub.

[rereboy]

Gogeta would probably need SSJ2 to beat Gohan-Buu. Vegetto did it with SSJ1.

[InfernalVegito]

Yeah kind of like that at least. But he would not have problems with him at all imo.

[jjgp1112]

I don't see how Gogeta would be so much weaker than Vegetto. I'd say only slightly lesser, but nothing really significant.

[hleV]

I don't see how Gogeta would be so much weaker than Vegetto.

That's because you don't read people's posts.

[CatouttaHell]

Unless you think SSjin Goku >>>>>>> SSjin 3 Goten and Trunks, Gogeta is trash compared to Vegetto.

[jjgp1112]

I don't see how Gogeta would be so much weaker than Vegetto.

That's because you don't read people's posts.

I read every post in this thread prior to posting, your point? Save the rude posts for someone else.

Unless you think SSjin Goku >>>>>>> SSjin 3 Goten and Trunks, Gogeta is trash compared to Vegetto.

I don't see the logic in this at all. Goku and Vegeta individual far exceed Goten and Trunks, especially since Goku can go SSJ3 without the assistance of fusion and Vegeta can go SSJ2. It stands reason to believe that a metamoran fusion between the two would still blow Gotenks out of the water and have a Godly amount of strength. Maybe not as much as Vegetto, but I don't see what, besides the Potara fusion being said to be more efficient than Metamoran fusion, would indicate that Gogeta is significantly less powerful than Vegetto. We only see Gogeta in action for about 1 measly minute, and in that minute he vaporized Janemba, who in his original form is said to be at least stronger than Fat Buu and was smacking SSJ3 Goku around (in his new, stronger form) like it was nothing, with a friggin' rainbow.

[Chou Gohan]

You know, that Goku x Vegeta "formula" doesn't really make sense to me. lol I don't have time to go into deep philosophy of math, but here's an example. Many people are familiar with the practice of using larger units in place of large numbers of smaller units such as "three gigabytes" instead of three "thousand megabytes" or "half a gallon" instead of "384 teaspoons". So instead of ol' battle powers I'll just keep things simple by using a much bigger units that I'll just call terabapow. I'd estimate Goku's max power to be 0.9 terabapows and Vegeta's to be about 0.2. So Veggeto would be Goku (0.9) times Vegeta (0.2) which equals Vegetto (0.18). But something there just doesn't seem right.

I think I have a much better formula for fusion. In fact, I'd be tempted to say it is an amazing formula that can equate much more than fusions. That formula is "resulting strength = plot convenience".

[Kaboom]

I'm pretty much convinced that "GOKU X VEGETA" was not meant to be taken as some sort of literal mathematical formula, so much as a fancy way of saying, "Vegetto's battle power is incomprehensibly and immeasurably high." Because no matter what you're using as starting powers for the two, Vegetto is going to be millions of times stronger than either of them. MILLIONS.

[Fox666]

Since Vegeta transfomed in Super Saiyan to fight Evil Boo, I guess that limits his strength.

Of course you can give some hocus-pocus explanation like Vegetto not realising how strong he was, or he was overkill, or simply Vegetto going Super Saiyan for fun. But it's hard to believe on any of these.

Hey, what about playing a little with probabilities? Think about it. The Potara would multiply the power of Goku/Vegeta by tens of millions. What are the chances that Gohan-absorbed Evil Boo would be exactly on the numerical margin that Vegetto would need to increase his power by 50?