What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

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NeoKING
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by NeoKING » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:07 pm

Dragon Ball Anime
Z Anime/Movies/TV Specials/"Yo, Son Goku and Friends Return!"
GT Anime/Special
Dragon Ball Heroes
Dragon Ball Online

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:47 pm

My main/manga canon: The original manga, the Bardock special, most of the info in the manga-related guidebooks, the establishment in Neko Majin Z of Goku and Oob back at Mt. Paozu, the establishment of Goku and Chi-Chi doing farmwork in the JSAT special, and the Dragon Ball Online plot point that explains that Goku and Vegeta disappeared from Earth to have one last battle to the death once they realized they were getting on (I just think it's a character-appropiate ending for the two of them).

My anime canon: The main anime series, GT, the Bardock special, most of the info in the anime-related guidebooks, GT and most of the info in the GT-related guidebooks.

My movie canon: The movies and most of the info in the movie-related guidebooks.

Every DB media is canon to itself.
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Travis Touchdown » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:03 pm

My Manga Canon: Dr. Slump, Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Neko Majin Z (possibly willing to include Pola & Roid as I hear Dr. Slump characters appear in it, but I'd need to read it to see if it would fit or not)

My Expanded Universe Canon: Dr. Slump & Arale, Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z (includes movies 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 + all 3 Specials), Neko Majin Z, Dragon Ball GT (includes Special), Dragon Ball Online

My Stand Alone Canons (as in not related to anything or each other): New Dr. Slump, Dragon Ball Z Kai
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by NeoKING » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:05 pm

I think I'm the only one that would consider Heroes canon, lol. In my mind it's an arcade game made by Capsule Corp (Trunks) after everything (probably GT, if it includes GT characters and stuffs) in respect for the Earth's past heroes that suddenly became real for the Hero and is his story.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by B » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:34 pm

Everything is canon to itself and how much it sucks is inversely proportional to how much I care about its canon.
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Casual Matt
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Casual Matt » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:17 am

Well, there are two ways to look at it. There's the seperate Universes style, which it seems many people here habe brought up. The manga is it's own seperate self contained entity. The anime's timeline includes DB, DBZ, GT, the TV specials, and some of the movies. Then everything else is just extra stuff.

While I do lean towards the idea of keeping the manga and anime seperate, it doesn't say much in the way of guidebooks and that type of thing. In which case you could think about it in the Star Wars style of Expanded Universe and various media not being non-canon by default, but rather being given different levels of importance. With Dragon Ball it could work like this.
  • The manga is obviously the primary canon. The most important source of information.
  • The anime, TV specials and GT would be secondary. These are basically the Expanded Universe of Dragon Ball, and the first thing to consider when going outside the manga for story or information.
  • Third would be guidebooks and that type of thing. Some may argue that this could go above the anime.I would place them on roughly the same level.
  • Fourth is the movies. I would have lumped these with the anime if not for the fact that most of them are not meant to be canonical to the anime or manga.
  • The fifth and final level would be information from video games and stuff like that. Any further beyond this and we start getting into stuff like Dragon Ball Evolution.
So yeah, that's my idea of a Star Wars style hierarchy. Obviously Akira Toriyama and the manga is to Dragon Ball what George Lucas and the movies is to Star Wars. It's the most pure source of information and story for the franchise and is to be considered first before moving into the Expanded Universe. And if you are exploring content from the extra stuff or engaged in debate that involves this stuff, simply keep in mind the source of the information and it's importance compared to other sources.

Here's an example. Who killed Cargo? Freeza did. Because that's what happened in the manga.

Another example. Is Tenshinhan a decendant of a three eyed tribe? Yes. Because even though it's only mentioned in guidebooks, it's never contradicted by anything above it in importance. That being said, since this information is not from the original story, it would be prudent to mention the source of the information. So the real answer to the question would be "Yes, according to some guidebooks".

One final example. Didn't Goku go to High School and get called stuff like Geeko? No. No he did not.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Bussani » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:40 am

I don't see canon in terms of "universes", as such. I suppose there's nothing wrong with looking at it that way, but canon has its own subtle difference. It's more of a writer's aid or idea than something that strict, which is why anyone can define their own canons...and also why doing so doesn't usually mean anything in the long run, unless you're planning to write a story yourself. I usually post the Tenchi Muyo! canons as an example of what I mean.

Image

As one can see, while there's one example of a completely different "universe" being its own canon, there are also several slightly different canons that different authors for the franchise use, and all of them use exactly the same OVA as their starting point. There's a lot of crossover, and canon doesn't always work both ways; the first OVA is canon to the movie Daughter of Darkness, but Daughter of Darkness isn't canon to the Kajishima canon (which is the "main canon", in my opinion). I don't really have a well defined Dragon Ball canon that I religiously stick to, but I suppose I'd look at it something like this.

Toriyama/manga canon: The manga, guidebooks and interviews with Mr. Toriyama.
Anime canon: Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, the specials...maybe guidebooks and interviews.
GT canon: Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, GT special, Perfect Files.
DBO canon: The manga, guidebooks and interviews, Dragon Ball Online.

Of course, I could decide to write some fanfiction right now and make up my own canon as a scope for writing it, and make it something like...

Bussani canon: The manga, guidebooks and interviews, the specials, Dragon Ball GT. Let's throw in Dr. Slump as well.

Pretty weird, but it's up to the author to decide what counts when they write.

To answer the topic question, I generally only consider what I called the Toriyama/manga canon above when discussing the story on this site (unless we're specifically discussing GT, a movie, a filler character, etc), so I might as well say that's the canon I'd want to be magically whisked away to.
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by FNF » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:54 am

Filler that AT contributed I consider to be canon to the manga such as the use of the multi-form as a training technique etc.
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Luke Groundwalker » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Bussani wrote:Toriyama/manga canon: The manga, guidebooks and interviews with Mr. Toriyama.
Anime canon: Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, the specials...maybe guidebooks and interviews.
GT canon: Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, GT special, Perfect Files.
DBO canon: The manga, guidebooks and interviews, Dragon Ball Online.
Why separate GT from the anime canon? Just curious.

Also like most people here I feel like there is definitely different continuities in the series. It isn't anything major ala TMNT or Transformers, but Toriyama himself has mentioned this aspect of the series before in regards to the movies (even Dragonball Evolution).

I don't really think anyone has ever formed a Dragonball "canon." Canon means that there is an official distinction of what is, and what isn't. As far as we know TOEI, Akira Toriyama, Bird Studio, or whoever has yet to officially create a "canon" for Dragonball. At most, we can rely on Toriyama's hint of alternate continuities like I said in the above paragraph.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Fin » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:57 pm

I'm mainly interested in the comics, so I tend to regard only those as canon (or rather, the only canon I personally care about). Even at that I've got a fairly flexible definition, where I tend to only consider the chapter that I'm reading right at this moment to be important, with all prior issues being seen more as influences than part of the same story (and all future issues being non-existent :P). Well, okay, that's a rather crude and non-literal explanation, but basically what I'm saying is that retcons, even mid-story, really really don't bother me, because I'm primarily concerned with what Toriyama is saying right now.

For example, during the Freeza arc I tend to treat Super Saiyan as a literal legendary transformation that only one person in a lifetime will ever achieve because of mystic fantasy crap, since I interpret that as a basic theme of the story. When I get to the Cell arc I adjust my understanding to it as a natural transformation that any Saiyan with the strength and resolve can potentially achieve, because that's the way the Cell chapters begin to treat it.

I don't bother making a distinction between which of these is the "true" version, even though it's all part of the one continuity and common sense dictates that the Cell interpretation should take precedence. As I see it, each interpretation suits the current events, and to prioritise the Cell reading while I read the Freeza chapters diminishes what I see as Super Saiyan's role at that point in the comic. The fact that my interpretation of the Freeza arc's version of Super Saiyan is something that I read into the atmosphere and general tone of that part of the story, rather than any concrete piece of canon I see as irrelevant.

In any case, this is all bullcrap, because we all know that only chapter 229 is the one true Dagon Ball canon.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Bussani » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:03 pm

Luke Groundwalker wrote:Why separate GT from the anime canon? Just curious.
Mostly just because I can, to be honest. It's an example of how canonicity doesn't always have to work both ways. In GT, obviously Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are part of its history--they "happened"--but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to accept that GT comes after Z. Or you can. It's up to you.

Canons are literally just opinions. It's just that the only opinion that matters in the grand scheme of things is that of the author/owner/whoever's in charge. No one's going to care about my made up canon unless I do some sort of fan project with it where it becomes relevant to think about, you know?

Edit: Come to think of it, I could have put the Z movies under GT's canon as well, since GT seems to act like they happened. That could potentially be another reason to have a separate Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z canon. Then again, the anime is so inconsistent anyway that I wouldn't blame someone for just including it all in one big anime canon.
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:39 am

I think the only DB manga is canon since it's created by the author and AT did had very little to do with the DB animes and movies. I just view the anime/GT, the movies and DBO as their own universe.
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:27 pm

I see everything canon, but divided in different universes:

Manga Universe:
Dr. Slump
Dragon Ball(including the Kanzenban changes)
Episode of Bardock(possibly, want too see how it ends)
Heya! Son Goku and Friends Return!!(manga adaptation only)
Dragon Ball Online
Stuff from the guidbooks from the mouth of Toriyama only.

Anime Universe:
Dr. Slump
Dragon Ball
Dragon Ball Z
Dragon Ball GT
DBZ Movies 1, 5, 8, 9 & 13
Z TV Specials 1 & 2
GT TV Special
Heya! Son Goku and Friends Return!!(anime version)
Episode of Bardock
The 3 Side stories
Shin Budokai 1 & 2 story mode
Every new stuff from guidbooks, interviews and video games.

Other Seperate Universes:
Dr. Slump remake
The rest of the movies
The Sumer Vacation Special
The Year-End TV Special
The 2-part OVA with Raichi
The OVA remake
The OVA "Goku's World"
The Public-Safety Specials
The What-Ifs and retellings of the series from the video games
Neko Majin Z
Dragon Ball Kai
Dragon Ball SD
Dragon Ball Heroes
Every new stuff from guidbooks, interviews and video games related to any of the above.
Last edited by DBZGTKOSDH on Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by The Time Traveller » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:34 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I see everything canon, but divided in different universes:

Manga Universe:
Dragon Ball(including the Kanzenban changes)
Episode of Bardock(possibly, want too see how it ends)
Heya! Son Goku and Friends Return!!(manga adaptation only)
Dragon Ball Online
Stuff from the guidbooks from the mouth of Toriyama only.
Ya forgot Dr. Slump.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:43 pm

The Time Traveller wrote:Ya forgot Dr. Slump.
Stupid me, thanks, I edited it! :mrgreen:
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Nex Carnifex » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:09 pm

why would you include doctor slump that was like way to unreal even for the db universe and isn't very consistent with it either.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Travis Touchdown » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:15 pm

Nex Carnifex wrote:why would you include doctor slump that was like way to unreal even for the db universe and isn't very consistent with it either.
Dr. Slump has a very extended cameo in Dragon Ball which leads many to believe they share the same universe.
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:35 pm

What, no DB Multiverse manga? :p I think it happened. It takes place years after Majin Buu, and it doesn't seem to contradict the manga.
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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:32 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:What, no DB Multiverse manga? :p I think it happened. It takes place years after Majin Buu, and it doesn't seem to contradict the manga.
But it is 200% non-canon and unofficial. And it has those awful Specials. :x
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: What Dragon Ball media do you consider canon

Post by Godo » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:26 am

For me it has always been the manga itself that has been the only "true" canon, although I enjoy the anime and the movies too. In the end, canon doesn't matter much to me anymore since it's a manga/anime series after all, not the god damn bible.
Nex Carnifex wrote:What was so special about movie 9? Isn't it ridiculous for some random bounty hunter to show up who's stronger than Freeza?
Isn't it ridiculous that on a planet with creatures on a powerlevel of an average of 5, there would be cyborgs and androids that nerfed Freeza in power? I mean, in some way they have created artificial ki, with the help of limitless generators (probably created some kind of mini star, not that special, right?), whose armor and protection is stronger than any material naturally existing on Earth as it is. And the strongest one can absorb the cyborgs, without their bodies being dissolved and without his body mass increasing significantly, spitting them out whole when being subjected to intense trauma.

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