The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[hleV]

Dabra is stronger than either Perfect or SP Cell. We'll probably never know for sure, however if Gohan was only SSJ against Dabra, it's likely that Dabra was only stronger than Perfect Cell.

In Cell arc SSJ Gohan did fight back Perfect Cell.
Now Dabra, after fighting SSJ Gohan (who's weaker than in Cell arc), is quite confident that he can beat Gohan if they fought again.

[Nex Carnifex]

Well if Gohan was SSJ 2 when he fought Dabra, I still say Super Perfect Cell wins, as Vegeta stated that Gohan was a lot weaker than when he fought Cell, and it is pretty much implied that without the plot requiring otherwise, SPC would lay waste to Gohan as he basically took him out with one casual finger beam (the same one Piccolo used to deflect Frieza's ki blast). DBZ isn't THAT linear power level wise.

If Gohan was SSJ 1 then I say Dabra is a little below Perfect Cell, as Cell didn't have any trouble with SSJ 1 Kid Gohan while Dabra had a good amount of trouble with SSJ1 Teen Gohan who is a lot weaker.

PS: Sorry grammar police my last post was on a smart phone, it's really hard to type on those.

[CatouttaHell]

Gohan was only "weaker" because he couldn't tap into his rage. The Daizenshuu stated his strength didn't change.

Non-raged SSjin 2 Chibi Gohan (at least as powerful as the one who fought Dabra) managed to hold his ground in the Kamehameha struggle against Post-Self Destruction Cell with one arm.

[Nex Carnifex]

Gohan was only "weaker" because he couldn't tap into his rage. The Daizenshuu stated his strength didn't change.

Non-raged SSjin 2 Chibi Gohan (at least as powerful as the one who fought Dabra) managed to hold his ground in the Kamehameha struggle against Post-Self Destruction Cell with one arm.

The Daizenshuu isn't perfect, why else would it correct itself regularly? And Gohan holding off that blast with one arm was purely plot induced stupidity, as it was required by the plot. And Cell again was dragging on the battle to further troll Gohan and his friends since he just loves that, he obviously wasn't putting forth his full strength as he wasn't struggling in appearance. When Gohan did his potential tapping jig it was to late to drop the bullshit. Being in such an utterly desperate situation probably allowed Gohan to hold on just a bit longer, he still had plenty of ki so why can't he enter a beam struggle and hold off for just a bit? The manga doesn't drag.it on like the anime.

[CatouttaHell]

The Daizenshuu isn't perfect, why else would it correct itself regularly? And Gohan holding off that blast with one arm was purely plot induced stupidity, as it was required by the plot. And Cell again was dragging on the battle to further troll Gohan and his friends since he just loves that, he obviously wasn't putting forth his full strength as he wasn't struggling in appearance. When Gohan did his potential tapping jig it was to late to drop the bullshit. Being in such an utterly desperate situation probably allowed Gohan to hold on just a bit longer, he still had plenty of ki so why can't he enter a beam struggle and hold off for just a bit? The manga doesn't drag.it on like the anime.

When has the Daizenshuu corrected itself? The only mistake in all 1,600+ pages of it is the statement that Tenshinhan fought #19 (instead of #17.)

Nowhere does it suggest or say that Cell wasn't putting forth his full strength in the Kamehameha struggle. Gohan was confident he could easily defeat Cell until his arm got damaged and he went from being enraged to being scared and hopeless.

The Boo arc then confirms that Gohan >>> Cell. Dabra is compared to Cell and everybody considers him a joke, while Gohan's enraged SSjin 2 power is stated to be the highest power ever felt, by far, until SSjin 2 Goku and Vegeta's fight begins.

[Kirby456]

I say.

SSJ2 Gohan-100
- Half power lost-50

Super Cell-70

Dabura-90

Gohan SSJ2 Teen-88

[CatouttaHell]

There's no way Cell could've damaged Gohan that badly (or at all maybe) if he was 70% of him. Cell should be above or on par with SSjin 2 Gohan IMO. I have:

Enraged SSjin 2 Chibi Gohan - 120
- Rage lost - 60

Post-Self Destruction Cell - 80

Dabra - 90

SSjin 2 Teen Gohan - 80

[Nex Carnifex]

I have it like this

If Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabra

Super Perfect Cell: 120
SSJ2 Chibi Gohan: 110
-rage lost: 95
Dabra: 100
SSJ2 Teen Gohan: 85
Perfect Cell: 75
SSJ Chibi Gohan: 60
SSJ Teen Gohan: 55

If Gohan was SSJ1 against Dabra

Super Perfect Cell: 120
SSJ2 Chibi Gohan: 110
-rage lost: 95
SSJ2 Teen Gohan: 90
Perfect Cell: 75
Dabra: 70
SSJ Chibi Gohan: 60
SSJ Teen Gohan: 55

Super Perfect Cell was pretty fucking ridiculous, easily taking out the second strongest version of Gohan's arm and threatening to destroy the entire solar system. I don't think Dabura was at that level, even if he went up against an SSJ 2, I didn't see him crippling him with the first blow. I think Dragon Ball Multiverse got it right, having Cell's original perfect form take out Dabura with only slight trouble.

[dbgtFO]

What's your reasoning for putting Cell above Gohan?

[Nex Carnifex]

What's your reasoning for putting Cell above Gohan?

When he came back he was certain that things wouldn't go well for Gohan this time even with fond memories of his brutal beating, remember Cell has Piccolo's DNA he isn't completely clueless. He then proceeded to cripple the confident SSJ2 Gohan's arm with a single casual finger beam (not a strong attack, used to deflect a ki blast by Piccolo in Frieza saga) directed at a weakened Vegeta, who would have probably died from just about anything Cell threw at him at this point so there is no reason Cell would be trying. Cell's statement after that hinted that he was surprised at just how strong he had become compared to Gohan, so I think that he must have realized that his new form is actually an even more superior threat than he imagined and he didn't even have to worry about Gohan unlike he thought before. I think we all agree that the crippled Gohan would have lost in a legitimate fight with Cell, but due to plot he held his own long enough for him to surpass his previous limit and push back Cell's attack through story elements.

[dbgtFO]

But then we have Goku being absolutely certain that Gohan would win no matter what, which he ended up doing, so why should one take Cell's statements to mean that he's above Gohan, when Goku's statements are spot on?

[Nex Carnifex]

But then we have Goku being absolutely certain that Gohan would win no matter what, which he ended up doing, so why should one take Cell's statements to mean that he's above Gohan, when Goku's statements are spot on?

Well Cell kinda proved his statement, and even Goku didn't really expect Cell to return super strong, but nonetheless Goku believed in his son that he would beat Cell somehow (everyone knows about Gohan's 'hidden potential', which is referenced constantly). But Goku wasn't all slyly smirking when Cell came back with the upper hand, he was serious with Gohan, "Release your power NOW! Now is your chance!". Gohan even had to use Vegeta's distraction to overpower him, so yeah Goku's faith in his son was definitely put to the test when Cell returned and during those final moments, but of course Goku didn't give up on him and Gohan won or it wouldn't be Shonen.

[In Brightest Day]

All of the Z-Fighters over the canon series go at it in an all out brawl to the finish. Every character is at equal power levels.

Here are the fighters...


- Android 18
- Mr. Buu
- Chaozu
- Gohan (Chao/Mystic Gohan)
- Goku
- Goten (28th Budokai)
- Kibitoshin
- Krillin
- Piccolo
- Roshi (22nd Budokai)
- Mr. Satan
- Tenshinhan
- Trunks (28th Budokai)
- Uub
- Vegeta
- Videl (Buu arc - post Gohan training)
- Yajirobe
- Yamcha (Cell arc).


Rules/Notes:

- As stated above, every character is at equal power levels

- Everyone is blood lusted & trying to destroy each other

- Mr. Buu's Henka Beam (Candy beam) is banned. He also can't absorb anyone.


Who wins and why?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Boo wins purely because of his regeneration. #18 would probably be the last person to be defeated because of her infinite energy.

[Rocketman]

1. Buu, from regeneration.
2. 18 from infinite energy.
3. Vegeta from high Endurance stat.

I don't know why people keep making these EQUAL POWER LEVELS fights OH YEAH THE ~HUMANS~ ARE IN IT TOO DID I MENTION POWER LEVELS ARE EQUAL and i guess i'll toss in mr hax regen so what

It's Buu, ok? All things being equal, it will always be Buu. #18 will always come in second because she never tires. These facts will not change.

[CatouttaHell]

I don't know why people keep making these EQUAL POWER LEVELS fights OH YEAH THE ~HUMANS~ ARE IN IT TOO DID I MENTION POWER LEVELS ARE EQUAL

The funny thing is, the Earthlings would lose to the Saiya-jins even at equal Battle Powers.

Don't forget Vegeta fought evenly with Son Goku, who is undoubtedly the most skilled fighter in the entire series. I don't see any of the four Earthlings being able to do that.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, Saiyans just plain have physically tougher and more durable bodies than humans, which at even levels of Ki would leave them with still having an advantage in battle. That's all there is to it.

[Olympian]

I don't know why people keep making these EQUAL POWER LEVELS fights OH YEAH THE ~HUMANS~ ARE IN IT TOO DID I MENTION POWER LEVELS ARE EQUAL

The funny thing is, the Earthlings would lose to the Saiya-jins even at equal Battle Powers.

Don't forget Vegeta fought evenly with Son Goku, who is undoubtedly the most skilled fighter in the entire series. I don't see any of the four Earthlings being able to do that.

Not sure i can agree.

In the first bout, Vegeta was the most powerful of the two and in the Buu fight, Goku never activated the 3rd transformation, which would have fell Vegeta. I don`t consider Vegeta unskilled, but i view - and i am sure many think the same way - that what made Vegeta such a threat was mainly his raw power and attitude in battle.

Fans of the series usually regard the humans as the most naturally skilled, because they were the ones creating many of the fighting formulas that even characters like Vegeta followed up, like rising and reading Ki. Many named attacks came from them as well. I guess you can say that Goku being as skilled as them - having learned in the same MA schools - and not outright beating Vegeta even when they had similar power levels, speaks against this notion, but we can`t forget that the show started to reflect more and more about raw power than raw skill.

It leads to mind that if the named humans did have the same power levels, the ingenuity and raw skill, could help overcome things like "better body durability" or something.

1. Buu, from regeneration.
2. 18 from infinite energy.
3. Vegeta from high Endurance stat.

I don't know why people keep making these EQUAL POWER LEVELS fights OH YEAH THE ~HUMANS~ ARE IN IT TOO DID I MENTION POWER LEVELS ARE EQUAL and i guess i'll toss in mr hax regen so what

It's Buu, ok? All things being equal, it will always be Buu. #18 will always come in second because she never tires. These facts will not change.

If you count Buu and 18, sure.

Discount them and you have a working grudge match. And even in this one, the humans won`t outright lose, or anything.

I think it's more a case of not giving Yamcha enough credit, rather than giving Videl too much. Videl could beat Yamcha at his first appearance as a desert bandit if you ask me, but after that... nah. Once Yamcha starts training with Muten Roshi, he's beyond the "normal human" range that Videl still borders.

Not the case with me, i assure you. This was just one of those funny tibits a friend had with me over how Yamcha is such a punk that even Videl could win.

Laughting stock, of course, but fun nonetheless.

I think a Yamucha vs Videl`s opponent in the Bodukai would be interesting though. If you consider he must not have done heavy training as if Earth was in danger, how would you all rate this one?

[Rocketman]

Vegeta tanked a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and a Spirit Bomb, got back up and could've still killed everybody.

Maybe the Kikoho could do it, but at equal power levels the Kikoho would very likely hurt Tien more than it would Vegeta.

[Godo]

Vegeta tanked a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and a Spirit Bomb, got back up and could've still killed everybody.

Not only Vegeta. Both Nappa and Goku got some very rough treatment during their fights and still managed to fight back.
Another interesting notion is that Kami, when in a human's body (as Shen), comments that his body apparently takes more damage than his own, indicating that probably Namekian bodies are more durable as well (using the Piccolo vs. Goku fight as an example). This is of course without taking into consideration that the 23rd Tenkaichi was written and drawn before Toriyama even thought of Saiya-jins.

Maybe the Kikoho could do it, but at equal power levels the Kikoho would very likely hurt Tenshinhan more than it would Vegeta.

Thinking of what the Shin Kikoho did to Semi-Perfect Cell, who was pushed back even though he was much, much stronger, I would bet that it would destroy Vegeta if they were at the same level. But then again, someone else would take him down afterwards when he was weakened, thus it would be no point in using such an exhausting technique.