Was Piccolo shafted by Toriyama in favor of Vegeta?

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, like BlazingFiddlesticks said, it really comes down to whether attention to his role as a fighter is a big prerequisite for being shafted. You seem to think so. I, on the other hand, do not. As in, you think his role is better in the Freeza and the Cell arcs because he fights a lot, rather than in the Buu arc, where he does not. I, on the other hand, think his role in the Buu arc is better because it actually has him do something important, while all of his fighting in the previous two arcs accomplish far less than what he accomplishes in the Buu arc while not fighting.

I think it's interesting that you bring up Gohan in the Freeza arc. It's true that they both end up relegated to the sidelines by the end of the arc, but the cases are so different otherwise, and it all comes down to the story. All Piccolo does in that arc is fight. Nothing else. He has absolutely no actual role in the story of that arc. Granted, his death is the catalyst for the arc, but there is no focus on him. He spends half the arc dead. He comes back to life with much fanfare but then accomplishes nothing and then stands around and does nothing. Gohan, on the other hand, is a major focus of the arc. He does plenty, experiences plenty, and is a center for the drama and story. The story of the arc is really about him, Vegeta, and Kuririn, even more so than Goku (who basically has the exact same non-role in the story as Piccolo, but at least he gets to accomplish something). So, yes, it's disappointing that, by the end, Gohan has nothing to do, but at least he wasn't entirely wasted. Piccolo was.

And I guess that's what annoys me so much about Piccolo's role in those arcs. I like Piccolo. I think he's an awesome character who deserved better in those two arcs than what he got. And what he got in those two arcs was something very shallow and almost insulting to his character. The story puts him on this awesome, amazing pedastal... TWICE, and then does absolutely nothing with it other than knocking it down for no good reason. The Buu arc does not put him on any kind of pedestal, it's true, but still manages to do more with the character. In that light, I'd say the Saiya-jin bias puts him at a far greater disadvantage in the Freeza and Cell arcs than it does in the Buu arc.

[Michsi]

Well, like BlazingFiddlesticks said, it really comes down to whether attention to his role as a fighter is a big prerequisite for being shafted. You seem to think so. I, on the other hand, do not. As in, you think his role is better in the Freeza and the Cell arcs because he fights a lot, rather than in the Buu arc, where he does not. I, on the other hand, think his role in the Buu arc is better because it actually has him do something important, while all of his fighting in the previous two arcs accomplish far less than what he accomplishes in the Buu arc while not fighting.
.

But that's just it, he doesn't accomplish anything in the Buu Saga either. All his effort ended up waisted, first because of Gotenks himself, second by Gohan, then by Gotenks again. And as much as I found it entertaining, he ended up being treated as a comic relief character. Toei takes it a few steps further and makes it almost embarrassing to watch.

Sure, it does a great job at pointing out that he has leader-like qualities, that he manages to keep a level head in dire situations, that he is responsible etc, but then again, this were things we've known before.

I can't help but feel that had DB continued for one more arc, he would have been left out completely, because , as I said, it's story about fighters fighting big fights. Pretty much what GT did.

[caejones]

Except that in GT, Piccolo actually did some pretty important things by deliberately killing off the black star DBs and helping Goku out of Hell.

[Michsi]

Except that in GT, Piccolo actually did some pretty important things by deliberately killing off the black star DBs and helping Goku out of Hell.

Well then, here is an example of and arc where his actions were successful, yet still manages to feel like he got majorly shafted.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I always considered the fact that, as was already brought up in the case of GT, that Piccolo actually did a fair number of things in the Buu arc considering he wasn't fighting. Toriyama's admitted that Piccolo's his favorite, and that seems pretty evident, even if he ultimately meets the same fate as everyone else.

[Hellspawn28]

I am so sick of that "rumor", it's just people assuming, or making up crap because that was a what-if scenario in Supersonic Warriors 2.

I'm stick of it as well. I believe the whole rumor started with someone editing the DB wiki and someone added it there. Then that wiki edit got people believe it was real and spread across the web. It's amazing what a edit on a fan wiki can cause so much trouble !

[Vegeta Jr]

Well, like BlazingFiddlesticks said, it really comes down to whether attention to his role as a fighter is a big prerequisite for being shafted. You seem to think so. I, on the other hand, do not. As in, you think his role is better in the Freeza and the Cell arcs because he fights a lot, rather than in the Buu arc, where he does not. I, on the other hand, think his role in the Buu arc is better because it actually has him do something important, while all of his fighting in the previous two arcs accomplish far less than what he accomplishes in the Buu arc while not fighting.

I think it's interesting that you bring up Gohan in the Freeza arc. It's true that they both end up relegated to the sidelines by the end of the arc, but the cases are so different otherwise, and it all comes down to the story. All Piccolo does in that arc is fight. Nothing else. He has absolutely no actual role in the story of that arc. Granted, his death is the catalyst for the arc, but there is no focus on him. He spends half the arc dead. He comes back to life with much fanfare but then accomplishes nothing and then stands around and does nothing. Gohan, on the other hand, is a major focus of the arc. He does plenty, experiences plenty, and is a center for the drama and story. The story of the arc is really about him, Vegeta, and Kuririn, even more so than Goku (who basically has the exact same non-role in the story as Piccolo, but at least he gets to accomplish something). So, yes, it's disappointing that, by the end, Gohan has nothing to do, but at least he wasn't entirely wasted. Piccolo was.

And I guess that's what annoys me so much about Piccolo's role in those arcs. I like Piccolo. I think he's an awesome character who deserved better in those two arcs than what he got. And what he got in those two arcs was something very shallow and almost insulting to his character. The story puts him on this awesome, amazing pedastal... TWICE, and then does absolutely nothing with it other than knocking it down for no good reason. The Buu arc does not put him on any kind of pedestal, it's true, but still manages to do more with the character. In that light, I'd say the Saiya-jin bias puts him at a far greater disadvantage in the Freeza and Cell arcs than it does in the Buu arc.

I think his fusion with Nail was one of the most important things to happen to his character, his sacrifice for Gohan being the only thing that succeeds it.

I think the anime actually captured it better; in the Manga Piccolo is simply shot by Freeza, but in the Anime he jumps in front of the bullet. It shows his readiness to defend Goku which came from Nail's humbling and honour bound nature. Nail's influence had Piccolo save the man he was genetically created to kill.

[Travis Touchdown]

Toriyama's admitted that Piccolo's his favorite,

Well to be fair, he's also said Gohan & Goku were his favorites in certain interviews as well.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Toriyama's admitted that Piccolo's his favorite,

Well to be fair, he's also said Gohan & Goku were his favorites in certain interviews as well.

Makes sense; I think it was in the Toriyama + Oda interview where he chose Piccolo. I'd imagine it's something that could shift pretty easily.

[Michsi]

I think his fusion with Nail was one of the most important things to happen to his character, his sacrifice for Gohan being the only thing that succeeds it.

I think the anime actually captured it better; in the Manga Piccolo is simply shot by Freeza, but in the Anime he jumps in front of the bullet. It shows his readiness to defend Goku which came from Nail's humbling and honour bound nature. Nail's influence had Piccolo save the man he was genetically created to kill.

His fusion with Nail had little to no effect on his personanlity. It was stated in the story that Nail would only serve as a power-up (by Nail himself iirc) and nothing more. He received Nail's memories, but none of his personality traits.

Well to be fair, he's also said Gohan & Goku were his favorites in certain interviews as well.

I never saw Gohan being mentioned and Goku was occasonally mentioned along side Piccolo. So was Mr. Satan once.
These three are probably his favorites, but he always choses Piccolo.

He also used say that he didn't like Vegeta, but in one of his latest interviews, he is brought up as one of his favorites. Said something like that he liked the strong quite solemn type. Which makes me wonder, when was Vegeta quite and solemn?