The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dbgtFO]

Gyūmaō
http://images.wikia.com/dragonball/imag ... hi-Chi.JPG

vs.

Spopovich
http://images.wikia.com/dragonball/imag ... elNV01.png

Gyumao uses his ax to cut Spopovich in half.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Technically, I don't think Gyu-mao's got enough technique (as in, ki blasts and stuff) to last long enough to gain a victory over Spopovich, who tanked all of Videl's attacks, got his neck broken and still got back up again like nothing happened. Plus, Spopovich has the advantage of flight and the ability to actually fire off ki blasts. I think that Gyu-mao would probably end up wearing himself out against Spopovich, who would then defeat him.

[p123]

The big G would wreck Videl , Mr Satan , Spopovich , and Yamu in a hand to hand fight four on one.

But I agree the flying and ki blasts might be an issue, but the big G should be able to tank all of that.

Heck, Chi,Chi probably does the same if not more...

[Nineteen]

SSJ Vegeta (pre-ROSAT) vs. SSJ Future Gohan

[Piccolo Daimao]

SSJ Vegeta (pre-ROSAT) vs. SSJ Future Gohan

Vegeta managed to fight evenly with an #18 who was even stronger than her future counterpart, who killed Gohan. And yes, I know some people don't believe in the "future Androids > past Androids" thing, but I do.

So I give the win to Vegeta.

[Nineteen]

SSJ Vegeta (pre-ROSAT) vs. SSJ Future Gohan

Vegeta managed to fight evenly with an #18 who was even stronger than her future counterpart, who killed Gohan. And yes, I know some people don't believe in the "future Androids > past Androids" thing, but I do.

So I give the win to Vegeta.

Of course, Gohan also fought against both 17 and 18, which is impressive even if you assume the future androids were weaker (I personally don't). That said, I also believe the Androids Gohan fought were taking it easy on him, and I actually have Future Gohan as being ever-so-slightly SSJ Goku's (Namek) inferior, based on his comment that he'd like to eventually be as strong as his father, so I also give it to Vegeta.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Vegeta managed to fight evenly with an #18 who was even stronger than her future counterpart, who killed Gohan. And yes, I know some people don't believe in the "future Androids > past Androids" thing, but I do.

So I give the win to Vegeta.

Of course, Gohan also fought against both 17 and 18, which is impressive even if you assume the future androids were weaker (I personally don't). That said, I also believe the Androids Gohan fought were taking it easy on him, and I actually have Future Gohan as being ever-so-slightly SSJ Goku's (Namek) inferior, based on his comment that he'd like to eventually be as strong as his father, so I also give it to Vegeta.

Yeah. In the "Trunks: The Story" chapter in the manga, #17 tells Gohan that he didn't even use half his power when they fought before.

Chapter: TTS, P9.4-5, P10.1
Context: It’s worth noting that Trunks doesn’t hear this conversation and is unconscious, so he doesn’t sense the fight.
No.17: “Anyway, it’s been a long time, Son Gohan…It’s been about 1 year, right? I’m surprised you managed to survive after taking a beating like that…”
Future Gohan: “This time I’ve trained so that I wouldn’t get beaten. It’s your turn to lose now!”
No.17: “Our turn? …Heh heh heh… Sorry to disappoint…but I didn’t even use half my power when we fought before.”

[dbgtFO]

SSJ Vegeta (pre-ROSAT) vs. SSJ Future Gohan

Future Gohan was weaker than Trunks, who was weaker than Goku after training on Yardrat, who got significantly stronger in those 3 years, but was ever so slightly inferior to Vegeta.

Vegeta wins.

[p123]

DBGTFO got this.

[Pantalones]

Vegeta managed to fight evenly with an #18 who was even stronger than her future counterpart

...if by "fight evenly" you mean "last a little longer than everyone else, but only because #18 wasn't really trying at first, then get both his arms broken and pass out."

But yeah, Vegeta would almost definitely win against the future Gohan. Especially if the future Androids are actually weaker than the present versions. The only reason Gohan had any chance of lasting as long as he did against the Androids is because the future ones were much more sadistic than the present versions, and wanted to draw their fights out forever just for fun before finally killing him (unlike the present ones who'd rather just knock you out and be on their way as soon as you get annoying.)

[Piccolo Daimao]

Vegeta managed to fight evenly with an #18 who was even stronger than her future counterpart

...if by "fight evenly" you mean "last a little longer than everyone else, but only because #18 wasn't really trying at first, then get both his arms broken and pass out."

No, I mean, "fight evenly, but only lost because he was wearing out while #18 had infinite energy", just like Piccolo said.

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.3-6
Trunks: “Am-amazing! I hadn’t realized that father was this strong…! To think that he’s able to fight on par with that outrageous android…!”
Piccolo: “Vegeta’s going to be killed…[ ] Watch…Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It’s because his enemy’s power never falls at all, while Vegeta’s stamina falls the more he moves.”

Nothing contradicts Trunks' statement about Vegeta fighting on par with #18, nor does anything contradict Piccolo's statement that Vegeta was going to lose because he was wearing out, while #18 wasn't. There's nothing that suggests that #18 was holding back, apart from soon after the beginning of their battle, when they were both holding back.

Chapter: 352 (DBZ 158), P10.3-4
Context: after Vegeta tries to blast No.18, only managing to destroy a truck
No.18: “That blast just now wasn’t anywhere near your all.”
Vegeta: “Of course not…If I gave it my all, the entire Earth would be wiped out…”

Chapter: 352 (DBZ 158), P11.1
Context: after fighting Vegeta for awhile
No.18: “I haven’t been giving it anywhere near my all either. Can you tell?”

[p123]

PD, everyone else thinks that Vegeta ~ 18. Only 18 knew she was holding back. We don't find out until later when she calls Vegeta a weakling and pathetic as well as the massive gaps in power that are indicated after. Their are hints though. 18 tanking a punch to the stomach, her overall cockyness and what not...

But PD the killer is, Cell surpassed the Ssj, as well as Piccolo w weights... Yet only Piccolo w weights rivals both androids while Cell doesn't...as well as Piccolos confidence in taking out Cell with no concern even though he regenerated his arm...

So something like this...

Piccolo = 17 >= 18 >= Piccolo Weights > Cell > Ssj Vegeta

[Rocketman]

Vegeta could be exactly equal to #18 at the start of their fight and he'd still lose just as the manga showed. Vegeta's power drops just by living, and as soon as it does, he's no longer 18's direct equal.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Vegeta could be exactly equal to #18 at the start of their fight and he'd still lose just as the manga showed. Vegeta's power drops just by living, and as soon as it does, he's no longer 18's direct equal.

Exactly. #18 only says that Vegeta's "nothing special" because she knows that she'll win in the end, because she has infinite energy while Vegeta doesn't. Again, nothing contradicts Trunks and Piccolo's respective observations on Vegeta and #18's battle.

@p123: it's never established that Cell at his first appearance is stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta. Only that he's weaker than Piccolo.

[Michsi]

Vegeta managed to fight evenly with an #18 who was even stronger than her future counterpart

...if by "fight evenly" you mean "last a little longer than everyone else, but only because #18 wasn't really trying at first, then get both his arms broken and pass out."

No, I mean, "fight evenly, but only lost because he was wearing out while #18 had infinite energy", just like Piccolo said.

Really doesn't seem like that to me. In that fight Nr.18 had " I'm toying with you" written all over her face.


17 and Piccolo were equals => hence 17 getting angry and worried and mentioning his "the infinte energy" advantage, but this was long after the battle started

18 and Vegeta were not equals => not once did she show any sign of worry or anger while Vegeta was attacking her, it seemed almost like a grown up dealing with a 5 year old that was desperately trying to prove he was as strong as him.

See:

Vegeta hitting 18 and her reaction to it (you can tell by her face just how much she felt that)



And 18's answer (yeah, Vegeta felt that)


Sorry for the quality...

And this was only seconds after he started fighting "seriously".

So yeah, it wasn't just the infinite energy.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I'm not going to over-analyze panels; I'm just going to take what the story gave me at face value. The primary reason Vegeta lost against #18 was because of her infinite energy.

[Michsi]

I'm not going to over-analyze panels; I'm just going to take what the story gave me at face value. The primary reason Vegeta lost against #18 was because of her infinite energy.

That's exactly what I'm doing. Those panels were just an example.
The whole battle basically reflects what those panels imply.

[CatouttaHell]

#18 completely tanked a punch from Vegeta. That's a huge gap right there.

Consider also the implications that Initial Imperfect Cell >>> SSjin Goku and that Weighted Kamiccolo beat him all over the place and stated he could tank his Kamehameha and #18 and #17 could easily be double SSjin Vegeta.

Giran vs Kuririn

I'd say Giran would win. If he can't win with his own strength (which IMO he can) he'll just trap Kuririn with his gum.

[In Brightest Day]

Mr. Satan vs. Panpoot.

Panpoot makes his long awaited return to the Tenkaichi Budokai and challenges Hercule for his World championship. Who wins & why?

[p123]

PD...

Vegeta senses two tremendous powers. Then goes on to say that they are surpassing the Super Saiyan left and right.

Cell would be included in that statement, thus Cell > SSJ Vegeta.


Fights are not what they always seem. A lot of times we think a fight is serious, and only later do we find out it was not.



18 ~ Piccolo Weighted > Cell > 18 ( Holding Back ) ~ SSJ Vegeta



SSJ Vegeta is nowhere near 18's level...












A likewise scenario is



Jackie Chun ( 21st Tenkaichi ) vs Muten Roshi ( Fortune Teller Baba Saga )




Goku ( Post Karin Training ) >= Muten Roshi/Grandpa Gohan >> Tao Pai Pai >> Goku ( General Blue ) > Goku ( 21st Tenkaichi ) = Jackie Chun ( 21st Tenkaichi )


It would appear that Roshi was holding back a metric ton of power when he fought Goku at the Tenkaichi...