The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[In Brightest Day]

Yet it didn't, it happened to Yamcha. The only guy who sucked so much Mr. Toriyama didn't even feel bothered enough to want him there past the saibamen.

I have no idea how Akira Toriyama using Yamcha as a plot device is some way of saying he sucks. He was unlucky. Thats it.

Oh yeah, Yamcha beat a weakened Goku and another guy by accident. Let's start singing his praises because he manages to barely outshine a couple of secondary characters..

Well, his fight against the Cultivar was a victory, IMO. He'd completely defeated it and shown he was superior. However, I'm not basing my praise for Yamcha off his victories. If you look at his win-loss record by the numbers, obviously it's not impressive. Despite losing all of his Budokai fights, he always put up a good fight and was praised by every single one of his opponents. So going by that and just the fact that he's been trained by some of the greatest masters in Dragonball, IMO he is a very competent fighter. Theirs nothing to suggest he doesn't know what he is doing in there. Just that he can't do anything because he is generally out-matched power wise. Thats something Tenshinhan and Kuririn also know all too well.

At any rate, what I said was meant as a joke but you seem to be taking it rather personally. I'm sorry if my joke offended you as a fan, but please learn to lighten up.

Dude, common. No one ever said anything that would suggest I'm angry or being cynical. You lighten up and realise that just because I'm defending a character people often don't doesn't mean I've been offended.

Yeah, my opinion on the matter is that Pui-Pui would stomp the hell out of Yamcha rather easily. I have Pui-Pui above Freeza based on quotes by Shin on the matter and Freeza's power is such that Yamcha would never dream to match.

Yeah, I don't have the humans ever touching Freeza's full power either. I just think Pui Pui is that pathetic.

[p123]

Yea Pui Pui is underrated severely.

Kaioshin who thinks nothing of Freeza is bewildered by Base Vegeta's ability to beat Pui Pui. Shin also craps himself when he sees Yakkon, and we are talking about Freeza has been fodder for over 17 years now, so Pui Pui > Freeza should be no biggie.

[Rocketman]

Or Supreme Kai is a putz.

[Kaboom]

Or Supreme Kai is a putz.

I'm tellin' yas, the "Ignore Kaioshin, he's a moron" approach never fails. It lets SOOO many things in the Boo arc instantly make more sense.

[CatouttaHell]

Yea Pui Pui is underrated severely.

Kaioshin who thinks nothing of Freeza is bewildered by Base Vegeta's ability to beat Pui Pui. Shin also craps himself when he sees Yakkon, and we are talking about Freeza has been fodder for over 17 years now, so Pui Pui > Freeza should be no biggie.

Agreed completely. Kaioshin is scared of Pui-Pui and Babidi doesn't consider Kaioshin to be a threat to Pui-Pui.

Considering Kaioshin is so mighty that Piccolo didn't even bother to try to fight him, Pui-Pui is a freaking beast.

Base Saiya-jins >>> Pui-Pui >> Kaioshin >>> Piccolo is what the manga tells us.

Freeza and Piccolo are both about as relevant as the Bear Bandit at this point realistically.

[Vice]

Or Supreme Kai is a putz.

I'm tellin' yas, the "Ignore Kaioshin, he's a moron" approach never fails. It lets SOOO many things in the Boo arc instantly make more sense.

Well... in this case it's not something that doesn't make sense.

Shin knows of Freeza's power. Shin knows of Pui-Pui's power. Shin regards Freeza as trash. Shin regards Pui-Pui as strong. Thus, Pui-Pui > Freeza.

It's not hard to figure out, people just hate to accept it for some reason.

[CatouttaHell]

Well... in this case it's not something that doesn't make sense.

Shin knows of Freeza's power. Shin knows of Pui-Pui's power. Shin regards Freeza as trash. Shin regards Pui-Pui as strong. Thus, Pui-Pui > Freeza.

It's not hard to figure out, people just hate to accept it for some reason.

People around here have a pretty immense pro-Freeza and anti-Base Saiya-jin bias it seems.

This is the only forum I've been on where 100% Freeza > Base Saiya-jins is anything more than a rare opinion a few random guys have.

People who believe that are either extremely biased or just haven't really gone in depth and over-analysed this stuff for years like we have. Base Saiya-jins > Piccolo > 100% Freeza is pretty much the general consensus on the very knowledgeable power-centric boards like Neoseeker.

[p123]

People don't believe in major villians getting surpassed because they aren't paying attention.

Cyborg Tao may very well be ahead of Piccolo Daimao by a long shot, and damn near every henchmen in a following saga is stronger than the last sagas major villian.

21st Goku = Muten Roshi > Gyuumao >>>> Initial Goku ~ Orinji Temple Bullies

All types of crazyiness there.


22nd Chaozu > Tao Pai Pai is probably even more insane



There's tons of crazy stuff in Dragonball.

[Kaboom]

Just saying, it's probably wise to not take Kaioshin's irrational fears of anything and everything Majin Boo-related too seriously. He's easily the entire arc's weakest link in terms of reliability.

[Rocketman]

Cyborg Tao may very well be ahead of Piccolo Daimao by a long shot

No he isn't. Tien is only 250 when Raditz lands.

[CatouttaHell]

No he isn't. Tenshinhan is only 250 when Raditz lands.

The official numbers for Dragon Ball are garbage and are irrelevant. Toriyama and his staff didn't put even 1/100th as much as thought as obsessed BP fanatics like p123 and I have into this.

Tenshinhan beat the crap out of a Goku who was stated to be >>> Piccolo Daimao, and Yamucha and co all thought they could defeat Goku. Thus Piccolo Daimao being at 260 is factually wrong.

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai increases are freaking massive. Cyborg Tao Pai Pai being above Piccolo Daimao could very well be possible. Everybody at that tournament was a freaking beast.

Chichi is considered a weakling and yet she actually gave Weighted Goku more trouble than Cyborg Tao Pai Pai (without his weapons) gave Tenshinhan.

Piccolo Daimao is one-shot material at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai.

[Fox666]

If nobody takes serious Babidi and Dabura commentaries about Piccolo being trash compared to the saiyans is because there are many plot holes:
● Eeverybody was suppressing the Ki, so how they could tell how strong they were?
● This of course contradicts the following plot, since as Goku and the others advanced, it became clear that Babidi or Dabura had no idea of how strong they were and perhaps cannot sense Ki at all.
● At the same scene, Dabura mentioned they would be able to revive Majin Boo with the energy of the 3. However Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2 couldn't fill half of the energy meter.
● Wasn't Piccolo supposed to have surpassed the 50% of Goku as a full-power Super Saiyan? Since the guidebooks provides us the multiplier of 50 times for the Super Saiyan and 2 times for the Super Saiyan 2, it makes virtually impossible for Goku in his regular state to have surpassed Piccolo.

[Rocketman]

The official numbers for Dragon Ball are garbage and are irrelevant.

I thought you treated the guidebooks as absolute fact. Isn't that why you claim kid Trunks is stronger than Gohan and other such things?

[Fox666]

Dragon Ball are garbage and are irrelevant. Toriyama and his staff didn't put even 1/100th as much as thought as obsessed BP fanatics like p123 and I have into this.

For me obsessed fans are the least reliable source.

[Rocketman]

CatouttaHell vs his own ego.

Evidence A:

Toriyama's Beginning of Z numbers are factually wrong and that screws everything up.

The only real way you can do DB levels is to just throw out the manga numbers except for the Farmer's. Toriyama clearly put no thought whatsoever into them.

[CatouttaHell]

I thought you treated the guidebooks as absolute fact. Isn't that why you claim kid Trunks is stronger than Gohan and other such things?

It's not really their fault. Toriyama's Beginning of Z numbers are factually wrong and that screws everything up.

The only real way you can do DB levels is to just throw out the manga numbers except for the Farmer's. Toriyama clearly put no thought whatsoever into them.

Roshi being so close to the other Earthlings alone is just preposterous.

[Kaboom]

Toriyama's Beginning of Z numbers are factually wrong and that screws everything up.

... Really? This is how low this has sunk?

Okay, this subject of discussion is over. Back onto some semblance of the thread's original intended topic, please. Actually here, I'll post a match-up.

Mister Boo vs General Rild

For the sake of this match-up, we'll say it was Mister Boo, given the context, whom Goku compared Rild to, and assume they're operating at somewhat equal power levels (or perhaps Rild was said to be a bit stronger; I can't remember exactly). How will this match turn out? If Boo's at a slight power disadvantage, will his infamous regeneration and stamina be enough to overcome it? What about Rild's own nifty powers?

Let's also assume that even if Rild transforms, his power level stays the same, so the match remains more about who's got the better freaky abilities than anything else.

[Rocketman]

Are they fighting on Earth or M2?

[p123]

Old Piccolo Daimao being 260 is factually wrong.

Raditz Saga Tien = 250 > 23rd Budokai Tien > Goku / Young Piccolo Daimao > Old Piccolo Daimao


On Mr. Buu vs General Rilld.


In all likelihood, and in coordinance with how Dragonball works, Goku is most likely talking about that the General has surpass Kid Buu, who was the last major villian to be shown.

Someone surpassing Mr. Buu , is not really relevant, and thus, it's most likely that hey, remember that really bad ass guy I fought a while back that pushed me to the brink, yea , this guy is stronger, oh? Oh yea, my Base form exceeds even that! Talk about power up!

Which is insane. But that's how Dragonball works.

So the General def takes out Mr Buu easily save for getting absorbed or turned into candy of course.

[CatouttaHell]

Agreed, Mr. Boo is nothing. There's no reason for him being surpassed being a big deal.

Goku thought he wasn't a problem even five years before at the 28th Tenkaichi Budoukai, which could imply he was already above him in base that far back IMO.

There's a scene later on where a possessed Base Gohan is about to fire off a Ki blast to kill Mr. Boo and Mr. Satan and Vegeta-Baby stops him and calls them small fry.

If Base Gohan is already >>> Mr. Boo then there's no way Rild is only that strong.