Filler! Oh your god, no!

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:56 pm

Duo wrote:Portions of the Super Vegetto vs. Super Boo fight, since Toriyama-sensei originally had it so short, and the biggest clash of all time should have a longer fight.

Although, I cringed at Super Ghosts firing blasts of Chi. Since when can Chi fire Chi?!

That was short in the manga? Whoa. Didn't know that. From what guys have been saying, it's sounding like some YYH fights that are so short in the manga, you can't call them fights, but longer in the anime.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:39 pm

Super Sonic wrote:
Duo wrote:Portions of the Super Vegetto vs. Super Boo fight, since Toriyama-sensei originally had it so short, and the biggest clash of all time should have a longer fight.

Although, I cringed at Super Ghosts firing blasts of Chi. Since when can Chi fire Chi?!
That was short in the manga? Whoa. Didn't know that. From what guys have been saying, it's sounding like some YYH fights that are so short in the manga, you can't call them fights, but longer in the anime.

It was about 10 pages in the manga. Mostly Vegetto making Buu shit bricks by showing him all attacks are useless. None of that Buu going inside of his body stuff. Candy scenes were 2-panels long. For my site I'm going to scan the image where Buu, holding candy-Vegetto, punched himself labelled "Quit hitting yourself!"

Mr. Robot · Post by **Mr. Robot** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:02 am

First, driving episode. Then the specials. Then, the only episode I'm in (hah hah bad joke).

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:06 am

Dayspring wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:
Duo wrote:Portions of the Super Vegetto vs. Super Boo fight, since Toriyama-sensei originally had it so short, and the biggest clash of all time should have a longer fight.

Although, I cringed at Super Ghosts firing blasts of Chi. Since when can Chi fire Chi?!
That was short in the manga? Whoa. Didn't know that. From what guys have been saying, it's sounding like some YYH fights that are so short in the manga, you can't call them fights, but longer in the anime.
It was about 10 pages in the manga. Mostly Vegetto making Buu shit bricks by showing him all attacks are useless. None of that Buu going inside of his body stuff. Candy scenes were 2-panels long. For my site I'm going to scan the image where Buu, holding candy-Vegetto, punched himself labelled "Quit hitting yourself!"

Around 2 Chapters basically.

My absolute favorite filler scene had to be the driving scene. =D

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:53 am

The driving episode, Vejitto VS Buu, and Goku and Vegeta inside Buu and meeting those huge blue worms.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:33 am

That was short in the manga? Whoa. Didn't know that. From what guys have been saying, it's sounding like some YYH fights that are so short in the manga, you can't call them fights, but longer in the anime.

That's why they're called filler!

Toei just had to add useless (but sometimes okay) stuff to fill their 30 minute timeslot. Most manga chapters would last about 15 minutes without any filler, except for the first chapters of most manga, which are generally very long.

The Garlic Jr. Saga...

AH! Hao don't make me remember the nightmares...

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:23 am

I bet Toei could have easily fit 3 Manga Chapters per episode, actually. But thats only if it were a straight adaptation. Many Fillers are tiny things like a short added Punch & Miss Scene or an extended Powerup sequence.

SaiyamanMS · Post by **SaiyamanMS** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:13 am

Duo wrote:I bet Toei could have easily fit 3 Manga Chapters per episode, actually. But thats only if it were a straight adaptation. Many Fillers are tiny things like a short added Punch & Miss Scene or an extended Powerup sequence.

Yes, and that is EXACTLY the reason they needed filler, if they had 3 chapters per episode they would have shot right past Toriyama as he created only one chapter per week, leaving them with NO source material for their episodes as they also went at the rate of one per week. Anyway, look at the bright side. At least the filler in DBZ is nowhere near as bad as what was in the Johto arc of Pocket Monsters...

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:46 am

And thats also why I also say Toriyama-Sensei shouldn't have contracted it until he was at Volume 27, or they should do an "Ultimate Dragonball" Anime like they are doing with Hellsing, in which it is a perfect Adaptation of the Manga. The creators of Hellsing realized their flaws, why shouldn't Toei?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:37 am

I like the driving episode the best.

Bejiita · Post by **Bejiita** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:46 am

SaiyamanMS wrote:
Duo wrote:I bet Toei could have easily fit 3 Manga Chapters per episode, actually. But thats only if it were a straight adaptation. Many Fillers are tiny things like a short added Punch & Miss Scene or an extended Powerup sequence.
Yes, and that is EXACTLY the reason they needed filler, if they had 3 chapters per episode they would have shot right past Toriyama as he created only one chapter per week, leaving them with NO source material for their episodes as they also went at the rate of one per week. Anyway, look at the bright side. At least the filler in DBZ is nowhere near as bad as what was in the Johto arc of Pocket Monsters...

Jhoto was so bad I had to make my own manga of it, which I still enjoy reading when I look back at it today.

Filler was to give time to Toriyama so that he could make more chapters, the filler in my opinion is all good, especially seeing the filler we was filled with in Pokemon, not that I watch it anymore.

But every DBZ filler episode is at least decent on viewing it for the first time.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:58 am

And thats also why I also say Toriyama-Sensei shouldn't have contracted it until he was at Volume 27, or they should do an "Ultimate Dragonball" Anime like they are doing with Hellsing, in which it is a perfect Adaptation of the Manga. The creators of Hellsing realized their flaws, why shouldn't Toei?

An Ultimate Dragonball would be awesome!

Filler was to give time to Toriyama so that he could make more chapters, the filler in my opinion is all good, especially seeing the filler we was filled with in Pokemon, not that I watch it anymore.

If anything had too much filler it had to be Pokemon. God, they make 500 episodes and only around 350 go along with the games. (I'm making the numbers up here, I don't actually know how many episodes of PM there are

)

Back on topic!

Yes, and that is EXACTLY the reason they needed filler, if they had 3 chapters per episode they would have shot right past Toriyama as he created only one chapter per week, leaving them with NO source material for their episodes as they also went at the rate of one per week. Anyway, look at the bright side. At least the filler in DBZ is nowhere near as bad as what was in the Johto arc of Pocket Monsters...

Like what happened in Rurouni Kenshin...The animators got so far ahed of Watsuki-sensei that they ended up having to write their owm ending a few years before the manga even ended!

So much for being back on topic...

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:59 am

Since it's not likely that Toei will release a perfect adaption, maybe a team of AMV artists can get together and take some of the best fights (Goku vs. Frieza, Gohan vs. Cell, etc.) and edit them down and do some cool effects and music (like Doomrider) and create a filler-free adaption with subtitles and junk.

Domon · Post by **Domon** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:18 pm

Duo wrote:And thats also why I also say Toriyama-Sensei shouldn't have contracted it until he was at Volume 27,

At the time the anime came out, there was no guarantee that the series would last 15 volumes, let alone 27. "Waiting it out" would've been too risky and irresponsible for a company like Toei(imagine all that profit they might've lost!).

Also, this statement ignores that Toriyama often stated that the anime inspired and changed some of his viewpoints about his work (I believe there's one interview where he said that hearing Goku's voice on tv changed his perceptive on the character), and that Toei was one the heaviest voice in getting Toriyama to continue the series.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:42 pm

"Waiting it out" makes sense from an artistic standpoint, but from a business standpoint it doesn't. As Domon already said, there was no garauntee that the anime would last that long and even have an ending. With popular manga in Japan, the trend is to "strike while the iron is hot". To animate these series and get them on tv when they are still popular to take advantage of it for merchandise purposes, which means make as much money as you can in the short amount time that the series will be popular. Most anime in Japan does "alright". It's rare to have a series do well enough or remain popular with the public long enough to get more than one season.

It's not like DBZ was an isolated incident. Naruto, One Piece, Rurouni Kenshin, all were treated the same way. And with Hellsing? Well, the first 13 episodes left a lot of unanswered questions, and suffered reduced quality in it's animation as the series went on. So I find it a funny example to be used to praise a studio with. I remember at least a year went by when there was no word on whether there would even be more Hellsing for that matter, so it could have just as easily been tossed in the group I named above.

I'm not saying what the studios do is right, nor do I agree with them. I'm just stating why it is they do what they do and why unfortunately, it's not likely to change anytime soon.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:18 pm

It makes me wish that Japan believed in re-runs...

Here's another question though - how exactly did Yu Yu Hakusho manage to go without much or any Filler? I have the first 5 volumes and they actually have MORE story in them then the Anime.

And "Ultimate Hellsing" is a confirmed project, which will be complete in a couple years or so. Again, I give them credit because they are recognizing that it needs work, even if the Original was such a hit.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:34 pm

Ya, you're right about YYH. It actually cuts out some manga stories. Shame about the tanuki one, I thought it was such a sweet and touching little chapter.No idea why Japan doesn't tend to do re-runs. I just know that there's always new shows replaced when one is done. Now that Hellsing will continue, if only Beserk would too....

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:40 pm

As I mentioned, season 1 of YYH also had some canon fights longer than they were in the manga. Hiei's fight against Seiryu is over in a flash in the manga. And Yusuke lays out Miyuki with one punch instead of the repeated blows to "her" chest that Kuwabara yells at him about.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:35 am

Regardless, those little fillers hardly make up for nearly a volumes worth of extra stuff between the first 2 volumes. It is a shame that the Aforementioned Tankui story was removed too, that was the closest I ever came to crying for a Manga.

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:42 pm

I do not know for certain, as it is one of the only Dragonball Mangas I have never seen or read, but I heard Majin Buu (kid) vs. Super Saiyan 2 Goku was entirely filler. My friend told me that in the Manga Vegeta and Goku do the rock paper sicsors thing, and then Goku immediately goes to Super Saiyan 3 for the fight.

In the Anime Goku fights as Super Saiyan 2 first for awhile thinking he'll give Vegeta a chance to fight as Super Saiyan 2 as well and see how they do before he uses Super Saiyan 3. If that is filler, then it is is some damn cool filler, and one of my favorite fights in the entire series.

Aside from that, I like the episode where Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Krillin and Choutzu save the village from the volcano before seperating to train on thier own for the 23rd World Tournament.

Kanzenshuu

Filler! Oh your god, no!

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