DBZ Japanese Audio...In Stereo?

[TheBlackPaladin]

Okay...so, while not completely ignorant about the production of DBZ on the Japanese end, I certainly wouldn't consider myself a walking encyclopedia on the subject. Lucky for me, I frequent an awesome forum with an entire population of walking encyclopedias on that subject. So, I got a question for you guys, if you don't mind!

I read a rumor somewhere that the last few episodes of DBZ (not sure which ones exactly) were shown on TV in Japan with a stereo audio mix. Furthermore, it was a stereo mix with noticeably higher fidelity than the mono sound mix found everywhere else...Dragon Boxes included. This was quite the surprise to me. I was under the impression that the only thing Dragonball-related that was recorded in stereo (prior to some of the newer material) was the GT TV special.

So...

THE OBVIOUS QUESTION: Is this true?

If it is true...

1) Why did they suddenly switch from mono to stereo?
2) Did they release a stereo mix for anything else?
3) How come none of the international dubs were given the film masters with the stereo mix? (...Well, okay, I can probably guess the answer for that one. Toei is notorious for giving their clients bad masters, as I recall).
4) How come the stereo mixes were nowhere to be found on the Dragon Boxes?

[Pokewhiz7]

I have never heard of DBZ being in stereo, however, Dragon Ball GT episode ~5 onwards were in stereo.
1.) I don't know, it had to happen sometime I guess.
2.) GT TV special, Dragon Box The Movies, a few episodes on some random boxset IIRC.
3.) They might not have had them to give, and even if they did I doubt they would.
4.) I'd assume because Toei doesn't know how to preserve for shit.

[Mountain]

Also, on VHS tapes recorded from the original broadcast, there exists higher-quality mono audio tracks, as well. It's a real shame that Toei didn't, to my knowledge, keep the original masters, because it's night and day compared to what we have on the Dragon Boxes. If you haven't already, you can probably find some comparisons on YouTube.

[Pokewhiz7]

If you haven't already, you can probably find some comparisons on YouTube.

For example...

[TheBlackPaladin]

If you haven't already, you can probably find some comparisons on YouTube.

For example...

Wow. That's MUCH better.

And Toei just didn't feel the need to preserve those high-quality masters? The high-quality masters of what is probably their most financially successful property? Or did they lose it? Regardless, I have no idea why we got the lower-quality mono mix found on the Dragon Boxes instead of this. This is so completely baffling to me.

[Mountain]

If you haven't already, you can probably find some comparisons on YouTube.

For example...

Wow. That's MUCH better.

And Toei just didn't feel the need to preserve those high-quality masters? The high-quality masters of what is probably their most financially successful property? Or did they lose it? Regardless, I have no idea why we got the lower-quality mono mix found on the Dragon Boxes instead of this. This is so completely baffling to me.

It's pretty upsetting, but I'm glad that these VHS tapes exist somewhere out there, though I'm not entirely sure if this quality audio exists for every episode or not. Oh, well... The Dragon Box audio is mediocre by comparison, but it isn't what I'd call terrible.

[kei17]

I read a rumor somewhere that the last few episodes of DBZ (not sure which ones exactly) were shown on TV in Japan with a stereo audio mix.

No, all the Z episodes have the mono audio.

1) They switched from mono to stereo from episode 5 of GT because they started using D2 digital video tape. Until that, they had been using magnetic audio tapes called cinetape, which are probably lost.
2) GT episode 5 to 64, DBZ movie 13, and Path to Power have the stereo audio.
3) FUNi used the stereo ME tapes for their GT dub.
4) Speaking of GT episodes, they just didn't use them. I don't know why. Maybe they forgot the existence of those digital tapes.

[DemonRin]

Oh wow... I had to turn the volume DOWN a bit... it was actually too loud... Wow.. that is the clearest I've ever heard this series' audio... does the whole series exist in VHS Rip form?... Some fan with WAY too much time on his hands could take DBox rips... lower the red level a bit... put this audio on... and have the perfect version of DBZ...

[TheBlackPaladin]

Oh, well... The Dragon Box audio is mediocre by comparison, but it isn't what I'd call terrible.

I guess it's just really surprising considering the near-divine status that the Dragon Boxes have been given by fandom. Here we have an example--on VHS, no less--of something that actually surpasses the near-divine Dragon Boxes.

And something else just hit me. That's from a VHS recording. Recordings are naturally not as good as the actual TV airing (when you're dealing with VHS I mean), and VHS tape quality usually degrades over time. So, if you put that into perspective, that means that the actual TV airing had audio that was better than THAT. Man, Toei really dropped the ball here, didn't they?

[Mountain]

Oh, well... The Dragon Box audio is mediocre by comparison, but it isn't what I'd call terrible.

I guess it's just really surprising considering the near-divine status that the Dragon Boxes have been given by fandom. Here we have an example--on VHS, no less--of something that actually surpasses the near-divine Dragon Boxes.

And something else just hit me. That's from a VHS recording. Recordings are naturally not as good as the actual TV airing (when you're dealing with VHS I mean), and VHS tape quality usually degrades over time. So, if you put that into perspective, that means that the actual TV airing had audio that was better than THAT. Man, Toei really dropped the ball here, didn't they?

That's exactly the case here; the original broadcast audio would have technically been even better. I'm pretty sure that it was standard practice for Toei to throw out the cinetape after making the masters. Perhaps they still have the original TV masters somewhere, though. Maybe kei17 can shed some light on the quality of audio that is currently being used for reruns.

[kei17]

Oh wow... I had to turn the volume DOWN a bit... it was actually too loud... Wow.. that is the clearest I've ever heard this series' audio... does the whole series exist in VHS Rip form?... Some fan with WAY too much time on his hands could take DBox rips... lower the red level a bit... put this audio on... and have the perfect version of DBZ...

I roughly synced the VHS audio of episode 51 with the DBox footage. Here is the ac3 file:
http://www.4shared.com/file/n1o2v1Tj/z51vhs.html

Perhaps they still have the original TV masters somewhere, though. Maybe kei17 can shed some light on the quality of audio that is currently being used for reruns.

I am pretty sure that Fuji deleted the master video tapes after the original run for some copyright reason. All the reruns have the optical soundtrack audio just like the Dragon Boxes.

[Puto]

I have never heard of DBZ being in stereo, however, Dragon Ball GT episode ~5 onwards were in stereo.
1.) I don't know, it had to happen sometime I guess.
2.) GT TV special, Dragon Box The Movies, a few episodes on some random boxset IIRC.
3.) They might not have had them to give, and even if they did I doubt they would.
4.) I'd assume because Toei doesn't know how to preserve for shit.

2) Yes for the special, no for the DBox movies or the few episodes. The DBox movies *do* have very high fidelity, but with the exception of movie 13 and the 10th anniversary movie, they're still mono. Same with the 'Big Box' episodes.

[Akumaito Beam]

If you haven't already, you can probably find some comparisons on YouTube.

For example...

I would literally give my left arm to have a DVD release with this sound quality. T-this is some disheartening stuff right here. Man, my biggest issue with the Japanese version of the show is the abysmal sound quality but this is my first time realizing the TV broadcast sounded crystal clear.

Shit man....

Edit:
Allow me to sound kind of jejune here, can we like...do something about this? Is there ever going to be a way to get this kind of audio quality back?

[BluezaBladeNZ]

Wow, the quality on that episode 51 recording was beautiful, disheartening stuff indeed. This would definitely make the perfect DVD release when mixed with the Dragon Box footage.

[ThunderPX]

If you haven't already, you can probably find some comparisons on YouTube.

For example...

I would literally give my left arm to have a DVD release with this sound quality. T-this is some disheartening stuff right here. Man, my biggest issue with the Japanese version of the show is the abysmal sound quality but this is my first time realizing the TV broadcast sounded crystal clear.

Shit man....

Edit:
Allow me to sound kind of jejune here, can we like...do something about this? Is there ever going to be a way to get this kind of audio quality back?

In theory, someone with well-preserved VHS tapes of the original broadcast could rip the audio of every episode, then sync that to the Dragon Box video. That seems like an insane amount of work, though.

[TheBlackPaladin]

In theory, someone with well-preserved VHS tapes of the original broadcast could rip the audio of every episode, then sync that to the Dragon Box video. That seems like an insane amount of work, though.

One that someone would be willing to go through, I bet you. Not me, but somebody. When you have a phenomenon like Dragon Ball, it attracts fanatical followers who don't consider any work related to it to be too extreme.

[DemonRin]

There already is someone out there who is remuxing the entire Kai score post episode 53 so that the dub score matches the Japanese Yamamoto Broadcast score.

So I could see someone doing the same for the DBoxes... they'd just need a LOT of time.

[BluezaBladeNZ]

If I was handed audio tracks for all the episodes, I'd gladly take the time to sync them up to the Dragon Box footage. I'm rebuilding the Yamamoto score myself too (already completed up to episode 65) for Kai and if I can spare at least an hour and a half on each episode, then it'd be a synch for me.

[Cipher]

And Toei just didn't feel the need to preserve those high-quality masters? The high-quality masters of what is probably their most financially successful property? Or did they lose it?

Why bother saving it? Until the late '90s and early 2000s, there was absolutely no home market for TV series. Especially for Japanese shows with their high episode counts and high costs of purchasing home media. The Dragon Ball anime series were never really made to be sold or collected.

[TheBlackPaladin]

And Toei just didn't feel the need to preserve those high-quality masters? The high-quality masters of what is probably their most financially successful property? Or did they lose it?

Why bother saving it? Until the late '90s and early 2000s, there was absolutely no home market for TV series. Especially for Japanese shows with their high episode counts and high costs of purchasing home media. The Dragon Ball anime series were never really made to be sold or collected.

Well that makes sense to a degree, but without any familiarity with Japanese business styles, I would still say they should preserve them for the sake of TV reruns. Nickelodeon still has the footage of shows that aired on TV two decades ago, after all.