The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[CatouttaHell]

GT makes perfect sense when you consider all of the Base Saiya-jin implications in the Boo arc.

Base Gohan (Post-Z Sword) is SSjin 2 tier, Base Gotenks and End of Z Base Goku are SSjin 3 tier, etc.

Agreed, 2.5x works best for GT SSjins, especially considering the implications that SSjin 3 has fallen below Great Ape in terms of power.

I don't see a problem with Base Goku being SSjin 3 tier considering that.

[p123]

GT also considers Gohan and probably Vegeta to have lost their power ups when they revive. That's do able, although I don't think I would agree the manga is showing that.

So GT basically takes the uber Base power suggestion, drops the power ups for Vegeta and Gohan, and that's really all they do huh?

[CatouttaHell]

Gohan and Vegeta losing their power-ups is unlikely but I wouldn't say it's impossible.

Post-Z Sword Gohan is still pretty relevant, he could be > SSjin 3 Goku depending on your multipliers.

Vegeta losing his power-up is probably necessary if you believe Boo (Dai Kaioshin Absorbed) is above Good Boo.

The only really weird thing in GT is Piccolo's insane power-up. I have no idea how he went from below Base Gohan to above SSjin Trunks.

[p123]

Yea, that's probably one thing I really don't get. I guess they just wanted Piccolo strong again. There's really no basis for it, well it would make sense if they didn't view Base Saiyans as that strong, but they obviously did. That's a real oddity. I really wouldn't know how to explain that in-story either.

Perhaps he decided to take his training more seriously after the end of the Buu Saga since Dende has gotten comfortable as the new God? I don't know man, that stuff doesn't make sense really.

[Kaboom]

Funny, it doesn't seem to be a problem if you don't consider Boo-arc Piccolo weaker than the base Saiyans to begin with. Sounds to me like one thing that GT got right.

[p123]

Well considering they have multiple Base Saiyans > Majin Boo , I doubt they kept in line with Piccolo > Base Saiyans in the Buu Saga. They probably wanted to throw Piccolo a bone.

[CatouttaHell]

There's too many Base Saiya-jin >>> Piccolo implications to ignore it IMO.

I guess it's not that bad. Trunks and Goten have powered up massively by GT despite slacking, so Piccolo powering up even more massively from training for 15 years is plausible.

It's a shame he never got to do anything in GT despite being so massively haxed. Going by the fact that he could keep everyone in Hell in line he should be far above General Rild at least.

[Rocketman]

GT makes perfect sense when you consider all of the Base Saiya-jin implications in the Boo arc

GT makes perfect sense when you consider it's devoted to sucking Goku's cock. All the other character gain and lose power as needed to make Goku look better.

[CatouttaHell]

GT makes perfect sense when you consider it's devoted to sucking Goku's cock. All the other character gain and lose power as needed to make Goku look better.

The only arc in the series that doesn't make sense power-wise is Super #17.

GT Goku really isn't that haxed considering he was a good deal above Good Boo/Dai-Boo back at the End of Z. I have him only 1.4x stronger than his End of Z self at the beginning of GT.

It's guys like Piccolo, Goten, etc who get the truly ridiculous, hax increases.

[Rocketman]

Or, Goku isn't that strong (again, save for when the story suddenly needs him to tank everything). So you don't have to make up hax like Goten gaining power without training.

[CatouttaHell]

Base Goku easily dominates a powered up Perfect Cell and has an edge on a guy who is stated to be above Pure Boo.

SSjin 4 Goku > Super Vegeta-Baby 2 > Super Vegeta-Baby > Super Vegetto is stated fact as well.

Base Goku smacking down a SSjin Gohan who was stated in the GT Perfect Files to have trained suggests he's insanely powerful as hell.

At the very least that Gohan should be a good deal above Post-Z Sword Gohan.

GT Base Goku > GT SSjin Gohan > SSjin Gohan (Post-Z Sword) > Base Gohan (Post-Z Sword) > SSjin/SSjin 2 Gohan (Pre-Z Sword)

I don't see how GT Goku (and End of Z Goku) can't be insanely strong.

[Rocketman]

I don't see how GT Goku can't be insanely strong.

He is, but it's because GT worships him, not because Z Goku was that strong.

[CatouttaHell]

Base Goku fought evenly with the guy who he said could beat even Good Boo and win the Tenkaichi Budoukai.

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P6.5
Goku: “…But someone besides us and Boo might win.”
Satan: “Hahhahhah, now really! There’s no way that could happen, right?”

Piccolo also flat-out said Goku vs. Oob would be the most notable match of the TB as well.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P6.4-5
Context: as Goku and Oob are about to fight
Piccolo: “This will be the most notable fight this time around…”

Enraged Oob = Pure Boo > Base Goku = Oob > Good Boo

[Rocketman]

You suggest base Goku got 400x stronger by putzing about with his slacker kids. I say thee nay.

[CatouttaHell]

Nothing says he got anywhere near 400x stronger. GT heavily implies the SSjin multiplier fell to 2.5x and that SSjin 3 fell below even Great Ape.

SSjin 3 - 2x
SSjin 2 - 1.5x
SSjin - 2.5x

Is probably the best way to do things for GT/End of Z/Fusions IMO.

Post Z-Sword Gohan SSjin Gohan is implied to be above or rivaling Majin Boo (Dai Kaioshin Absorbed) so I don't see why Goku wouldn't be able to do the same kind of gains that Gohan got in that one day in 10 years.

[Rocketman]

Nothing says he got anywhere near 400x stronger. GT heavily implies the SSjin multiplier fell to 2.5x and that SSjin 3 fell below even Great Ape.

So why doesn't Goku just use the Kaioken x10?

[CatouttaHell]

So why doesn't Goku just use the Kaioken x10?

Toriyama probably either forgot about it or retconned it out.

Nothing says he could still tap into that power anyway. The Kaio-ken was tapping into SSjin strength and almost all of that power has moved into his base form by then.

[Rocketman]

The Kaio-ken was tapping into SSjin strength and almost all of that power has moved into his base form by then.

I was unaware that Goku had Elder Kai's ritual preformed on him, although Mystic Goku would explain GT quite well...hm.

[Fox666]

Toriyama probably either forgot about it or retconned it out.

Why Toriyama has anything to with this GT thing?

[p123]

Yea, Goku getting his power unlocked by Elder Kaioshin would have made sense, for all of this uber Base power. But na, let's give him transformations on top of it why not? They did it for the Lulz.