Piccolo/Kami's death in the Saiyan Saga

[SSJFrogGinyu]

When Piccolo was killed by Nappa, he just died. Kami-sama faded away.

Shouldn't it be the other way around though? Piccolo (well, moreso his father) is the embodiment of Kami's evil, and Kami was the original body that spawned him. So shouldn't Kami-sama have dropped dead and Piccolo disappeared instead? I've always been confused about this.

Or did Piccolo's body just stay behind so Goku could check his pulse?

[Bussani]

Kami disappeared in the same way Goku disappeared after Kami took his body to the afterlife. Saichourou also disappears this way later. It probably means that Kami automatically got to take his body to the afterlife with him, while Piccolo did not.

[Fox666]

Quite interesting theory. I suppose Kami being a God would get a body in the afterlife, however why Saichourou does I don't know.

[Sshadow5001]

I wonder if Saichourou lost weight in the afterlife. I can't imagine you'd wanna be a huge namek who could barely move for the rest of your afterlife.

[Kiyza]

I wonder if Saichourou lost weight in the afterlife. I can't imagine you'd wanna be a huge namek who could barely move for the rest of your afterlife.

Considering they seem to have unlimited stamina in the afterlife, it wouldn't surprise me if he could move. Otherwise he's going to have a bit of an issue waiting in line...

[Fin]

Quite interesting theory. I suppose Kami being a God would get a body in the afterlife, however why Saichourou does I don't know.

I always thought it was implied that he was the Namekian god. Might just be my interpretation though.

[Fox666]

It seems the Daizenshuu mentions there is no actual God in Namek. I suppose their population is very small, or they are too developed they won't need a God anymore.

[kaialone]

Well even though the original Piccolo was the embodiment of God´s evil, Piccolo still is a being made of flesh and blood (or whatever Namekinas are made of)

[Fin]

Namekinas

[the_abberration]

Maybe (in addition Kami's reason for Goku) it has something to due with their lack of evil intent. Goku had "the heart of a baby or animal" (or such and such I forget) and could still ride Nimbus. Kami rid himself of his evil intent. My assumption is that Guru had no evil intent, as head of the Namekians.

Everyone else in DB had that "taint of evil" (for lack of a better phrase). So maybe the truly good ones just don't die, they also fade away.

[Puto]

The Grand Elder didn't disappear when he died on Namek, but he did when he died on Earth. Maybe God (of Earth) chose to allow him to keep his body as thanks for his help in the Freeza battle? I dunno.

[Fox666]

Yeah, good point, once he is on Earth it's Kami decision.

[the_abberration]

The Grand Elder didn't disappear when he died on Namek, but he did when he died on Earth. Maybe God (of Earth) chose to allow him to keep his body as thanks for his help in the Freeza battle? I dunno.

I always thought it had to do with his death on Namek, being before his natural lifespan (brought about by Freeza's actions). Which is why he was revived, by the wish later. If that's the case, then his natural lifespan just happened to come to an end, while on Earth I reckon.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, considering that when God died, it wasn't the natural end of his lifespan, yet he still disappeared, it's hard to use that argument for the Grand Elder. I had always assumed he disappeared when he finally died because he was "like unto a God," but the reasoning just put forth actually makes the most sense to me: God willed that the Grand Elder could keep his body upon death.

But, yes, it makes sense that God would vanish while Piccolo would not (at least not initially). God is, well, God, and presumably gets automatic privilege to keep his body in heaven, while Piccolo is just a mortal, and so he jsut dies.

[the_abberration]

Well, considering that when God died, it wasn't the natural end of his lifespan, yet he still disappeared, it's hard to use that argument for the Grand Elder.

Unless Kami's fade out had something to do with the connection he shares with Piccolo and Piccolo being killed. I know you won't count this, but in the anime filler for Garlic (IIRC), when Kami was being attacked and coming closer to death, Piccolo was the one who was fading out.

Maybe due to their connection, the one who is actually killed causes the other to just fade out of existence. I also believe this, because when Piccolo comes back to life, Kami just "pops" back into existence (and seems surprised at doing so). But again, that could have happened ITAO, and may not be something that you may accept as a valid counterpoint (although I thought Kami's seems to muse/imply his return had more to do with Piccolo's revival versus Kami warping back to Earth after the wish in the manga).

There could also be a possibilty, that Guru's connection to the dragon balls could have affected his fade out, considering he died while they were in use. Maybe for him to truly pass on, he has to pass the connection to someone else before death (or at the least, the balls can not be in use at the time).

[Gaffer Tape]

It's possible, but I can't say I buy it. In the actual story, the only precedent we have for someone's body fading away upon dying is when they are given their body in the afterlife. It was a precedent set not long before when Goku died, and we were given the explanation that God did it. Now God dies, and his body also fades away. That it has to do with their connection and who is the one being killed is certainly a plausible hypothesis, but it's something that's not backed up by any evidence (unless you count that moment from the Garlic Jr. arc... and, you're right, I don't, and I assume I don't have to explain why ).

Aside from Goku and God, we also see the Grand Elder. As you've stated, he would have no evil counterpart to tether him, yet he still disappeared. Again, it's plausible that it has something to do with the dragon balls, but there's no evidence to suggest this, and the only precedent we still have involves deities or heroes keeping their bodies when they die. Using Occam's razor, is it more likely that all these related examples can fit under the same explanation, or that we now require three separate explanations for the same type of event?

[SylentEcho]

I think Saichoru got to keep his body because it's because of him the Namekian race lives on. I think that makes him a hero.

[the_abberration]

Using Occam's razor, is it more likely that all these related examples can fit under the same explanation, or that we now require three separate explanations for the same type of event?

But even then, it doesn't necessarily mean that the simplest answer is always the correct one. That's not to say I don't agree with Kami's hand in the fade outs, I just feel that other possibilities lie with his and Guru's. However, the evidence I have to support my theory, stem from filler and anime sources (while the manga holds more sway with some of us).

I will throw this out there however. In the manga, we know that:

1) Goku's fade out was Kami's doing.

2) While the others didn't fade out after death, they went to the afterlife (where Kami presumably, met up with them and regenerated their bodies).

We also know that under normal circumstances when a person is revived, they return to the spot where they died. Since Goku's body was moved to the afterlife, that explains why he was resurrected on Kai's planet and had to travel to Earth. Piccolo and the other's bodies were regenerated in the afterlife, which explains them not returning to the original one's on Earth. Vegeta and the Namekians revived on Namek where they died. We even have it explained, that a revived person would return to the spot where they died unless they were moved.

In Kami's case, he reappears on Earth where he died (as opposed to reappearing in the afterlife and teleporting to Earth). So with this in mind, maybe Kami's fade out wasn't due to him willing his body to the afterlife. Which may explain as to why when Goku dies, he just vanishes whereas Kami just seems to fade out (ala Marty McFly).

The only time we do know of him giving someone their body upon death, was when Kami himself was still alive (maybe it doesn't work when he's dead after all). This leads me to believe even more, that when Piccolo died, the connection was broken, Kami faded out of existence as a result, and since his body was technically not destroyed or a subsequent one regenerated, he is able to revive back on Earth (keeping in line with what's established in the manga). King Emma, knowing the others may be needed, could have given them their bodies in the afterlife.

If that's the case, then there would now be a second explanation for a similar event happening. Leaving a possibility for Guru's fade out happening for other reasons (e.g. he has the ability just like Kami does but no connection to someone else or King Emma(sp?) doing him a solid, for his part with Freeza). It's not like it's the first time, more than one reason has been used to explain similar undertakings in Dragonball before.

[Piccolo Daimao]

You know, I always assumed that, since God presumably kept his body in the afterlife (being a god and regenerating Piccolo and co.'s bodies), he just teleported back to Earth after he was revived. We know he can teleport because, in the Saiyan arc, he did it to pick up Goku from Enma's check-in station.

[Bussani]

You know, I always assumed that, since God presumably kept his body in the afterlife (being a god and regenerating Piccolo and co.'s bodies), he just teleported back to Earth after he was revived. We know he can teleport because, in the Saiyan arc, he did it to pick up Goku from Enma's check-in station.

That's what it looks like in the manga. He has the voipy teleport lines and everything when he returns.