The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Piccolo Daimao]

I'm going to call it a toss-up, personally. Vegeta's at a possible disadvantage in numbers, which could and should count for something if Zarbon and Dodoria decide to make use of that. But on the other hand, Vegeta was able to overwhelm Dodoria so easily as to make him something of a non-issue-- so much so that even Vegeta himself was made to marvel at his own power. And that was before Vegeta even encountered Zarbon at all.

Was there any indication during their confrontation that would indicate Dodoria as anything other than completely powerless against Vegeta?

Not really, Dodoria did seem pretty powerless against Vegeta. Although some say that Vegeta looked like he was struggling as he held back Dodoria's arms (which I don't necessarily disagree with, but some will see it's overly analytical).

But even if Vegeta was able to overwhelm Dodoria easily, I don't think he'd be able to take them both on, considering that transformed Zarbon's apparently close to him in power. Vegeta had to catch him off-guard with such a cheap trick as throwing dirt to his eyes before he could weaken him enough to kill him. It's a possibility, sure, but I still think I'm going to give it to Zarbon and Dodoria.

[Kaboom]

Well, this is Vegeta AFTER he lost to Zarbon once then was healed and received a power boost from it. So even if Dodoria was close to him before and lost primarily because of Vegeta's skill and mind-game tactics, he's now going to be pretty much fodder to him one-on-one. But transformed Zarbon is pretty close, if not dead even, enough that as backup Dodoria might be useful and tip the scales.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Well, this is Vegeta AFTER he lost to Zarbon once then was healed and received a power boost from it. So even if Dodoria was close to him before and lost primarily because of Vegeta's skill and mind-game tactics, he's now going to be pretty much fodder to him one-on-one. But transformed Zarbon is pretty close, if not dead even, enough that as backup Dodoria might be useful and tip the scales.

Agreed. That's why I think Zarbon and Dodoria will probably win.

I have a match-up, somewhat similar to this one. Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Gohan vs. Perfect Cell (Cell Games suppression).

[Nineteen]

I think Goku and Gohan take it after a rough fight. Let's see what my (completely meaningless, fanon) numbers are for those characters:

SSJ Goku (Cell Games): 1,050,000
SSJ Gohan (Cell Games): 950,000,000
Perfect Cell (Cell Games): 1,200,000

Not a cakewalk, but they could do it.

Objectively, we know that Gohan was able to hold his own - not win or even set the pace of the fight, but survive, at least - against Perfect Cell before his SSJ2 transformation. And Goku did quite well, being able to string out the fight for some time. I think that, neglecting my bullshit for a minute, that anyone who watches those two fights reasonably would conclude that, working together, the two Saiyans could pull out a win.

[CatouttaHell]

Gohan would win on his own. Cell couldn't lay a finger on him until he raised his speed.

FPSSjin Gohan >> Suppressed Cell >> FPSSjin Goku.

[Rocketman]

Neither would be able to overcome Cell's regeneration before burning out.

[Shineman]

Uub (Before Training with Goku) vs Kid Gohan (After Training with Piccolo) vs Pan (GT)

What do you think?

[CatouttaHell]

Next time post in the versus thread. It's against the rules here to make versus threads.

Anyway Oob godstomps here.

Chibi Gohan is even weaker than a Saibaimen so he gets taken out instantly. Oob is as strong as Pure Boo, and GT Pan is probably somewhere around the SSjin 2 Goku/Base Gohan Post-Z Sword level IMO.

[CatouttaHell]

Regeneration costs Ki. He'd become more exhausted the more he has to regenerate.

[Shineman]

Ah I see. I was wondering where this thread should be in xD. Please move this thread to it's correct location.

What's indicate upon the strength of Uub? Other than the fight with Goku (whom wasn't trying), he doesn't have any legs to stand on.

[Fox666]

Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Gohan vs. Perfect Cell (Cell Games suppression).

You mean Goku and Gohan altogether of them aganst Perfect Cell?

Based on how Vegeta was pissed after seeing Goku transforming in Super Saiyan 2 against Yakon (whom we know was only slight stronger than Gohan was back then) it seems there actually was a significant difference beetween Goku and Gohan during the Cell Games. So Gohan would be the major factor in the battle.

Cell was suppressing his power until Gohan transformed in Super Saiyan 2, so we cannot tell for sure how strong Cell was before that. Nevertheless, I would actually expect Cell to win, since he can survive lethal blows and regenrate.

[Kaboom]

Merged Shineman's thread into here, though things are a bit out of order now...

I have a match-up, somewhat similar to this one. Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Gohan vs. Perfect Cell (Cell Games suppression).

I agree with Nineteen. Goku wasn't too far behind Cell, and Gohan was more or less his equal. So if Cell isn't allowed to power up at all, then he'll eventually lose.

Uub (Before Training with Goku) vs Kid Gohan (After Training with Piccolo) vs Pan (GT)

Let's see... Oob only gets REALLY strong when he gets mad, but even without that he was strong enough to clear the preliminary rounds of the Budokai. But without his anger boost, is he pushing a PL of 1000 like Gohan was after his training with Piccolo? ... Hmmm, I doubt it.

GT Pan's actual power is a mystery because GT is a mess. But I'd probably consider her in the several millions, at least, but below 10 million. So if that's the case, then she wins unless Oob gets really, REALLY mad.

It's against the rules here to make versus threads.

Well, that's a little bit of a harsh way to put it, but yeah, we've just got one central thread for them.

[Rocketman]

Regeneration costs Ki. He'd become more exhausted the more he has to regenerate.

And they'd get more exhausted from using up the ki to deal that damage.

[CatouttaHell]

What's indicate upon the strength of Uub? Other than the fight with Goku (whom wasn't trying), he doesn't have any legs to stand on.

Son Goku says before the Tenkaichi Budoukai begins that somebody besides Boo and them could win. So we automatically have an Oob > Good Boo statement.

Good Boo is probably equal to around Majin Boo (Dai Kaioshin Absorbed) since he did far better against Pure Boo than Vegeta did.

Piccolo also says that Goku vs. Oob will be the most notable match this time around, further suggesting Oob is a big deal.

After Goku fights Oob for a bit and senses his rage boost ("true ability") he says Oob is the person he expected him to be and is just as amazing as he thought.

Nobody contradicts their expectations of Oob (only confirms them) so they can be taken as fact.

Pure Boo = Oob (Rage Burst) > Base Goku (End of Z) = Oob > Base Vegeta (End of Z) > Good Boo = Dai Kaioshin-Boo

It's a crazy implication but it probably makes the most sense IMO. Ma Junior was just as powerful as his former self right after he was reincarnated so there's no reason Oob wouldn't be.

[Rocketman]

Vegeta can't sense any ki that powerful Before going to the tournament.

[Kaboom]

What's indicate upon the strength of Uub? Other than the fight with Goku (whom wasn't trying), he doesn't have any legs to stand on.

Son Goku says before the Tenkaichi Budoukai begins that somebody besides Boo and them could win. So we automatically have an Oob > Good Boo statement.

That doesn't mean Oob is stronger than anyone else... yet. Goku hasn't actually met Oob and judged him, and is eager to do so. He's as unsure as anyone else. For all he knows, Oob could be suppressing his power (isn't that actually what he told Vegeta, earlier?) and will only show it in battle. But it became evident that Oob needed training, and Goku had to get him mad to even reveal any significant power from him at all.

Long story short: Goku says someone other than them or Boo might win, because he hasn't seen what Oob can do yet. In the end, it took anger to even bring anything significant out of Oob so Goku could confirm who he was, and he still needed training to live up to his full potential.

[Fox666]

CatouttaHell, I don't see the point in your massive pseudo-analytic post.

Uub should have the power deep inside him, but he couldn't use it. Isn't it that simple?

[p123]

Well, Goku said that Oob showed his true ability, likely during his rage burst. What you think his true ability is, is subjective, but realistically, it probably means Kid Boo's power was displayed. Also, all of the hints that Base Goku and Oob fighting level could be above Good Boo, is quite possible. But, people have trouble with Base Saiyans > Piccolo here, so I wouldn't expect that logic to become popular...


Anyway, COH, I think I've changed my POV, on the whole SSJ2 tier.


SSJ Goku is a step or two behind Powered Up Cell, who was holding speed back, who is about on par with or a slightly weaker than SSJ Gohan. I don't think the gaps have to be wide here at all.

SSJ Vegeta in the Buu Saga, should be well ahead of those three powers in the Cell Games. If one assumes that Vegeta = Rage Boosted Gohan, it makes this all possible.

Goku vs Cell, could be a similar scenario to Tenshinhan vs Weighted Goku IMO..

[CatouttaHell]

Anyway, COH, I think I've changed my POV, on the whole SSJ2 tier.


SSJ Goku is a step or two behind Powered Up Cell, who was holding speed back, who is about on par with or a slightly weaker than SSJ Gohan. I don't think the gaps have to be wide here at all.

SSJ Vegeta in the Buu Saga, should be well ahead of those three powers in the Cell Games. If one assumes that Vegeta = Rage Boosted Gohan, it makes this all possible.

Goku vs Cell, could be a similar scenario to Tenshinhan vs Weighted Goku IMO..

Wasn't Goku barely keeping up with Cell's speed? The gap should be pretty huge if he was holding back a lot of speed and Goku still could barely keep up...

Goku should be one-shot material for Gohan at the Cell Games. Even Kaio-sama could tell Gohan was stronger, and we know that Ki sensing accuracy depends on the Ki of the senser. Kaio-sama is even weaker than Nappa.

I agree though that Vegeta should be above all of them. Rage Boosted Gohan and Vegeta should probably be rivaling each other. I have, in billions:

Boo arc SSjin 2 Vegeta - 1,200
Boo arc SSjin Vegeta - 300
Cell Games Raged SSjin 2 Gohan - 1,400
Cell Games SSjin Gohan - 140
Cell Games SSjin Goku - 100

Vegeta can't sense any ki that powerful Before going to the tournament.

Oob was suppressed.

CatouttaHell, I don't see the point in your massive pseudo-analytic post.

Uub should have the power deep inside him, but he couldn't use it. Isn't it that simple?

Goku thought Oob was powerful enough to win the Tenkaichi Budoukai.

After fighting Oob and sensing his rage burst he confirmed that his expectations were correct.

That doesn't mean Oob is stronger than anyone else... yet. Goku hasn't actually met Oob and judged him, and is eager to do so. He's as unsure as anyone else. For all he knows, Oob could be suppressing his power (isn't that actually what he told Vegeta, earlier?) and will only show it in battle. But it became evident that Oob needed training, and Goku had to get him mad to even reveal any significant power from him at all.

Long story short: Goku says someone other than them or Boo might win, because he hasn't seen what Oob can do yet. In the end, it took anger to even bring anything significant out of Oob so Goku could confirm who he was, and he still needed training to live up to his full potential.

Uncontradicted statements are fact. Son and Piccolo never contradict their statements about Oob's power, Goku actually confirms his expectations were right.

Goku flat-out says Oob was as amazing as he thought he would be but that Oob doesn't know how to control/properly use the power he has.

[p123]

Agreed. Oob meeting Goku's expectations, is really hard to twist and not as fact. This issue is a lot more clear than Base Saiyans > Piccolo.