DBZ: Ultimate Blast/Tenkaichi (Pre-Release Discussion)

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Why is everyone so pissed about the character roster? Big deal 41 characters. I mean i have even admitted that it kinda sucks, And i can't understand for the life of me Why they didn't include Super Saiyan 4 Goku/Vegeta, But included Super Saiyan 4 Goegeta. But i mean to say this is a huge disappointment? really?

Animated cut-scenes
Huge boss battles
Character creator
Awesome looking story

What more do you people want? I can understand being pissed off about all of this, But to say you're not going to be buying this game because of the character roster is kinda silly. But different strokes different folks.

Yes, yes it is a very huge disappointment. All the characters play the EXACT same, save Supers and Ultimates, so you better believe I at least wanted the expected basics for characters. The new giant "tweak" to the gameplay where everyone plays the same QTE cutscenes with slightly different animation already made me not want to buy the game, but I was willing to shuck out the dough anyway if it meant being able to "play" with some new characters I hadn't had in HD yet. Most of my excitement actually came from the idea that I would have the opportunity to play as SS4 Goku in HD, and now I can't even play has half the Z characters... The roster was going to be the only saving grace for the game, and it really let me down.

For anyone who hasn't seen the roster in text form, here it is:

Son Goku (Base, SS, SS2, SS3)
Kid Son Gohan
Preteen Son Gohan (SS, SS2)
Teen Son Gohan (Ultimate)
Piccolo
Vegeta (Base, SS, SSg2)
Kuririn
Yamcha
Tenshinhan
Trunks (Base, SS)
Gotenks (SS, SS3)
Vegetto (SS)
Gogeta (SS)
Gogeta (SS4)
Bardock
RaditZ
Saibaiman
Nappa
Vegeta (Prince)
Zarbon (Base, Transformed)
Dodoria
Kyui
Ginyu (Base, Goku's Body)
Reacoom
Butta
Jheese
Freeza (1st, 2nd, 3rd, Final, 100%)
16
17
18
19
20
Cell (Imperfect, Semiperfect, Perfect, Super Perfect)
Cell Junior
Vegeta (Demon Prince)
Majin Buu (Fat)
Majin Buu (Evil, Gohan Absorbed)
Majin Buu (Pure)
Broli ("LSS")
Janenba (Transformed)
Yi Xing Long (Super)

In addition to all the already discussed losses, like Goten, Kid Trunks, Chaozu, Gurd, Base Gohan, practically every teen Gohan, etc. We also lost SS2 Vegeta, most of Broli's forms and even Gotenks Buu...pathetic.

BTW,

Animated cut-scenes - Youtube...
Huge boss battles - Cool, I guess...
Character creator - Never interested in the first place...
Awesome looking story - Which I have read, watched and played how many times now? Not even close to being important to me. I may rent the game to play through the Hero Mode and see what they did with that giant What-If tough... $2 is better than $60.

[samuraix123]

I hope i didn't offend you. I was just meaning to me it looks great

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I hope i didn't offend you. I was just meaning to me it looks great

No, that wasn't meant to sound like "Rage!!1!1 Must. Belittle. Opposing. Opinions. RAWR!!11", I was just explaining why it doesn't sound great to me and possibly others. By this point in the game, the roster was the only thing that potentially held interest for me.

I'm just simply not going to pay $60 to play with gameplay that I think has been poorly executed, gain SS4 Gogeta and Yi Xing Long (the only new characters), a Character Creator I didn't want, a story I know by heart a 1000 times over, and new animation I can eventually just watch on Youtube... The boss battles I could take or leave, and Hero Mode has me curious, but not $60 curious. lol

[Hellspawn28]

I can't believe people are saying that they rather play Final Bout over this game ? Bigger character section is not everything since Super DBZ had a small section of characters and it was still great.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Wow, Meta-Wire-Cooler looks insanely awesome! I'm guessing the reason why the story mode is quite short and the roster is small is because they want to put emphasis on the 'Create-a-Character' and 'Hero Mode'. But to be honest, I do like how they shrunk the roster by getting rid of useless characters that no one ever plays as like base Gohan (Cell Games).

This may sound silly, but I really hope this game does well in sales and receives good reviews.

EDIT: What I find quite irritating about the roster is how they chose stupid characters like Cui, Cell JR. and Saibaiman over important ones like Goten and Trunks

[samuraix123]

I hope i didn't offend you. I was just meaning to me it looks great

No, that wasn't meant to sound like "Rage!!1!1 Must. Belittle. Opposing. Opinions. RAWR!!11", I was just explaining why it doesn't sound great to me and possibly others. By this point in the game, the roster was the only thing that potentially held interest for me.

I'm just simply not going to pay $60 to play with gameplay that I think has been poorly executed, gain SS4 Gogeta and Yi Xing Long (the only new characters), a Character Creator I didn't want, a story I know by heart a 1000 times over, and new animation I can eventually just watch on Youtube... The boss battles I could take or leave, and Hero Mode has me curious, but not $60 curious. lol

Okay I wasn't sure anytime i say anything that might aggravate anybody, I try to resolve the issue as soon as possible But i understand where you're coming from by not wanting to pay $60 for something you're not happy with.

[samuraix123]

Wow, Meta-Wire-Cooler looks insanely awesome! I'm guessing the reason why the story mode is quite short and the roster is small is because they want to put emphasis on the 'Create-a-Character' and 'Hero Mode'. But to be honest, I do like how they shrunk the roster by getting rid of useless characters that no one ever plays as like base Gohan (Cell Games).

This may sound silly, but I really hope this game does well in sales and receives good reviews.

EDIT: What I find quite irritating about the roster is how they chose stupid characters like Cui, Cell JR. and Saibaiman over important ones like Goten and Trunks

I Agree 100% But it wasn't a major factor for me not getting the game. I think In my opinion its going to be great

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I can't believe people are saying that they rather play Final Bout over this game ? Bigger character section is not everything since Super DBZ had a small section of characters and it was still great.

The difference being that Super DBZ had GOOD gameplay, with characters having uniquely developed fighting styles and combos. Ultimate Tenkaichi is one fighting style with the same combos spread over a couple of models with different skins that give the appearance of a character.

It's not that a huge roster is the only important backbone of the game, I could definitely accept a small roster if the game's fighting engine was amazing, but in this case, its not. To me, the roster was supposed to make up for that lack of a true fighting engine that has any sort of depth or uniqueness for characters. I really would rather play Final Bout or Super DBZ than this game...

[Li'l Lemmy]

I won't say that the game doesn't hold promise. I absolutely applaud the developers for trying their hand at something new and innovative that isn't the same ol' same ol' we've been given for the past five console iterations.

At the same time, though... well. Shit. I see no reason why they couldn't have done it while keeping the roster more intact than this. I ain't gonna lie, here-- it does put me off a bit, and it hurts my perception of the game as a whole. I mean, come on. Not even a base Gohan? In what universe is this supposed to make any sense?

A rental for me. No Goten, no sale. (Seriously, if we can get Saibamen and Kewi then where the flippin' fuck is my Son Goten?)


~Da Lemmy

[LeprikanGT]

Not having base characters is UNFORGIVABLE.

[MasterVampire]

It sucks they have Cooler as a huge boss but not playable.

[Hellspawn28]

Not having base characters is UNFORGIVABLE.

It's not like Base Gohan fought in his base form from what I can remember.

[LeprikanGT]

He was in the show and. Is a legit form. He can be knocked down to base for. ALL forms of Broly fought people.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I'm sure a lot of people know by now that I think this game has too many flaws to warrant a purchase. I also don't want to force my opinion on anyone, but here's some information to try and help remove the Taiyo-ken effect that the distractions (new animation, character creator, etc.) that the game is using to cover up its flaws are having on a lot of fans. These tidbits are taken directly from the Q&A interview with the reps at the Namdai event:

--------
Interview conducted by Nostal/Treevax/"that guy from last year" and his friends/associates/whatever. lol This is only a partial interview, I repeat, its only part of the whole thing.

Q: Does each Characters have their own Unique Moves, Animations and Attacks?
A: All the characters have different combat animations and unique Ultimate and Special Attacks , but the QTE combos are all the same for every single character in the game.

Q: 'How will the combat really work? it seems like it is only qte but it also seems like it isnt the whole thing''!
A: When you reach a 5 combo strike with punch or Kikoha, the QTE is activated, so it's lot and lot of QTE and it's very boring if you play it with friends...

Q: Are there any plans to make the AI more challenging? In RB2, not many of the characters with transformations ever transformed even when being out-classed in all areas of combat.
A: That question has not been asked but we said that the IA it's indeed stupid and Tony wrote this for the next game.

Q: The fans are very disappointed about the character roaster why did we have only 41 characters this year and only two special ones for the next gen ( Li Shenron and Gogeta SSJ4 ), can we expect some DLC to improve that number ?
A: Even Tony was not able to give us the reason of that, he saw that the roaster was disliked by many fans and he will try to give that information to the producers.

[Attitudefan]

They didn't say that when they answered.... or did they?

[InfernalVegito]

I've said it many times already and yet I feel the need to express me once again:

When they first announced the game in May, where it was still all "top secret" and called "DB Project Age 2011" I was neutral towards the game and the project as a whole. The very first screenshot did not impress, simply because it was not really showing anything new besides the new HUD if I recall correctly. Nonetheless as usually I waited for new information.

Around July I was already a little interested in the game because of the interview Treevax/Nostal did with the producers. They really tried to communicate with the fans and listen to our wishes and concerns. That was awesome. New explosive effects (that were highly overdue anyway), more and real costumes, more characters (despite "a couple of cuts" yes they said in some way like that) and finally after 4 long years GT in HD for the first time ever! That made me stoked as fuck, since I did not expect the gameplay to change any drastically, except some new and fresh combos and attacks probably.

Well after seeing the first gameplay videos I was already heavily irritated. It was filled too much with forced QTEs and interrupted the free gameplay I loved so much from BT3/RB2. I looked over it hoping they could be deactivated or whatever.

Well not! The gameplay was and still is the way I expected it to be. Too restrictive. I don't like that. I want my freedom.
No first day buy...

The ONLY thing I could count on now were the character roster and the costumes. I took it for granted that they include the "important" characters and OF COURSE all characters that were in previous games despite "some" cuts (hoping for the "useless" or not so much played with characters).

When days ago even my very last hope was crushed and spat on. Only 41 characters?!?! ARE YOU SERIOUS NAMCO/SPIKE?!

No I can't and don't want to take it anymore. 4 years of adding and removing characters every time...not with me anymore

[Animefreak1325]

Not having base characters is UNFORGIVABLE.

It's not like Base Gohan fought in his base form from what I can remember.

It's just for the sake of completion.

[Saimaroimaru]

DLC is always a possibility, but I'm not expecting too much if any at all.

I think the lack of certain content is just Spike's way of securing a renewal contract thus a sequel IMO.

That is actually a reason why the Cac isn't as in-depth as it is. The guy I talked to the guy about the Cac beings o limited pretty much said they are saving up for the next game if this does well. We have been Spiked.

I can't believe people are saying that they rather play Final Bout over this game ? Bigger character section is not everything since Super DBZ had a small section of characters and it was still great.

The difference being that Super DBZ had GOOD gameplay, with characters having uniquely developed fighting styles and combos. Ultimate Tenkaichi is one fighting style with the same combos spread over a couple of models with different skins that give the appearance of a character.

It's not that a huge roster is the only important backbone of the game, I could definitely accept a small roster if the game's fighting engine was amazing, but in this case, its not. To me, the roster was supposed to make up for that lack of a true fighting engine that has any sort of depth or uniqueness for characters. I really would rather play Final Bout or Super DBZ than this game...

Look at the small roster of Super DBZ, its much easier to be unique when you don't have to make 40 characters plus their transformations.

Why do I get the feeling they are trying to mimic Budokai 3...


Seriously look at the character list and then go back to the Budokai 3 list. Feels very familiar.

This game is pretty much a fusion between Raging Blast and Budokai.

[Thanos]

Q: Does each Characters have their own Unique Moves, Animations and Attacks?
A: All the characters have different combat animations and unique Ultimate and Special Attacks , but the QTE combos are all the same for every single character in the game.

Deal-breaker. Not getting this game.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Look at the small roster of Super DBZ, its much easier to be unique when you don't have to make 40 characters plus their transformations.

Believe me, I understand that. But the point is that this game is even steps behind BT3 and both Raging Blast games in terms of uniqueness.

BT3's offered different characters a couple of different rush combo finishers (blaster wave, heavy finish, flying kick, etc.), like with Vegeta getting the blaster wave, but Kuririn not having it. Characters were also given some unique combos, like the teleporting triangle attack the Mid Goku and a few others could use...

Raging Blast gave all the characters the same rush combo finishers and general combos, but the addition of cancels into the fighting system still helped to differentiate the characters despite this. Signature skills also helped to make the characters feel a little different as well, with some even helping to extend combos, like Piccolo's stretching arm.

Raging Blast 2 took this a step further by introducing the follow-ups into the fray, meaning some characters are now made slightly more complex by being able to switch between using cancels and follow-ups to extend combos...and if you're lucky, your signature skill can fit somewhere in as well.

In UT/UB, the only difference between the characters are the supers, ultimates and animations. You can only do 5 punches before a QTE, so no rush finishers. All the QTEs are the same, so no unique combos. Cancels, follow-ups and signature skills have been removed. Every one is literally the exact same. BT3 had over a 150 characters, and there was more variation and uniqueness to them than there are the 40 base/60-ish transformed characters here. It's seriously fucking pathetic. This is the kind of character uniformity we should have seen in the development process for the very first Budokai Tenkaichi...

----

Spike would have a much easier time if they would just merge all the applicable character’s forms and time frame versions into a single, unique fighting style similar to the Budokai series. For example, they could take the Vegeta specific animations used in all his forms from RB2 and roll them all into one package, including the required basic animations, like punches, kicks, and flight. They could use them as a basis to create a Vegeta specific fighting style by deciding which are best used to link into each other. Once done, changing costumes or transforming doesn’t affect how Vegeta plays, it’s almost exclusively a visual difference, and you can still customize his Supers and Ultimates for all the forms to help better represent the specific era you want to play as. Battle quotes can be set by an extra personality option that will allow for what-ifs, just in case you have you’re Vegeta decked out as a “Majin” SS3 in Namek Era armor with his Saiyan Arc personality.

Of course not all characters or forms could be merged. "Kid Gohan" should fight differently from “Preteen”, “Teen” or “Future” due to height and maturity, and Cell’s perfect form obviously can’t use animations that involve a tail like he had in his previous forms, but in general they could severely cut back on the amount of work they had to put into a character, because once a form is done, the character is done. No need to go through so much half-assed effort to make SS3 Goku fight somewhat differently than SS2 Goku...Goku playing like Goku and Vegeta like Vegeta, regardless of what form they are in, is more than enough IMO.