Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Godo]

Yamucha (23rd) > Chaozu (23rd) > Roshi and Tenshinhan (23rd) > Piccolo Daimao was stated in the manga. There's no way around that.

Goku (23rd) was about even with Piccolo (23rd).
Piccolo (23rd) was superior to Shen (23rd).
Shen (23rd) was superior to Yamcha (23rd).

Piccolo (23rd) did see Goku as a threat even with Goku wearing his weights against Tenshinhan, and even Kuririn as a possible threat after their fight, and since Piccolo Jr. was stronger than Piccolo Daimao, we can conclude that both Kuririn and Goku are stronger than Piccolo Daimao, Tenshinhan included.

So if we put it into your way of explaining it, we get:

Goku (without weights)=Piccolo Jr.>Shen>Yamcha

Where we can add Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Goku without weights into the same league since we don't know their power exactly. And they all are stronger than Piccolo Daimao.

Roshi having surpassed Piccolo Daimao is doubtful though. If we take into consideration the manga's numbers, this is supported.
Kame sennin had 139, being surpassed by Yamcha with a powerlevel of 177, following Kuririn with 206 and Tenshinhan with 250.
This is also taking into consideration that it's their powerlevel in a relaxed form.

So I don't see where you are getting your "there's no way around that" from. The manga and it's numbers are very clear and work fine with each other.

And I don't see where it was stated that Kame Sennin surpassed Piccolo Daimao, especially since he didn't train for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and didn't participate.

[Kaboom]

And I don't see where it was stated that Kame Sennin surpassed Piccolo Daimao, especially since he didn't train for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and didn't participate.

I think he intended for "Yamcha > Chaozu > Roshi" and "Tenshinhan > Piccolo" to be two separate thoughts. Further, I think his issue is that these things contradict the official number for King Piccolo, which is something like 250.

I don't think it's really a problem anyway if you take into consideration how these people fight. They tend to be at relaxed levels and then let loose their full power in bursts when they attack. Like how Goku and Piccolo's power reached into the upper hundreds and hugging the 1000 range, Ten and Kuririn's attacks could bring them from the 200's all the way up to like 500 or something.

[CatouttaHell]

Goku (23rd) was about even with Piccolo (23rd).
Piccolo (23rd) was superior to Shen (23rd).
Shen (23rd) was superior to Yamcha (23rd).

Piccolo (23rd) did see Goku as a threat even with Goku wearing his weights against Tenshinhan, and even Kuririn as a possible threat after their fight, and since Piccolo Jr. was stronger than Piccolo Daimao, we can conclude that both Kuririn and Goku are stronger than Piccolo Daimao, Tenshinhan included.

So if we put it into your way of explaining it, we get:

Goku (without weights)=Piccolo Jr.>Shen>Yamcha

Where we can add Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Goku without weights into the same league since we don't know their power exactly. And they all are stronger than Piccolo Daimao.

I agree with all of this.

Not really sure about Kuririn and Yamucha > Piccolo Daimao but it's definitely possible. It fits the theme of everybody somehow surpassing the previous big bad by the next arc.

Roshi having surpassed Piccolo Daimao is doubtful though. If we take into consideration the manga's numbers, this is supported.
Kame sennin had 139, being surpassed by Yamcha with a powerlevel of 177, following Kuririn with 206 and Tenshinhan with 250.
This is also taking into consideration that it's their powerlevel in a relaxed form.

So I don't see where you are getting your "there's no way around that" from. The manga and it's numbers are very clear and work fine with each other.

And I don't see where it was stated that Kame Sennin surpassed Piccolo Daimao, especially since he didn't train for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and didn't participate.

The Daizenshuu claims Piccolo Daimao is at 260. So Piccolo Daimao > Tenshinhan >>> Tenshinhan (23rd.)

That clearly makes no sense at all going by manga statements, unless Ten and co somehow got weaker or something.

My fault, "Yamucha > Roshi" and "Tenshinhan > Piccolo" were meant to be two separate things. I agree that Kame-sennin probably didn't surpass Piccolo Daimao.

I don't think it's really a problem anyway if you take into consideration how these people fight. They tend to be at relaxed levels and then let loose their full power in bursts when they attack. Like how Goku and Piccolo's power reached into the upper hundreds and hugging the 1000 range, Ten and Kuririn's attacks could bring them from the 200's all the way up to like 500 or something.

I'm pretty sure they learned that from Mr. Popo. At the Beginning of Z nobody but Son had trained with Mr. Popo.

Tenshinhan wasn't using any kind of amplified attack when he was beating a Goku was >>> Piccolo Daimao all over the place either.

[Fox666]

What about 16 being the strongest Android(Not including Cell) does that include fused 13?

The Daizenshuu profile refers only to the manga, so it does not include or exclude.

That only means that the androids unseen in the manga (from no.9 to no.15) would not be stronger than no.16. However this may not apply to the movie story, since it doesn't necessarily follows the manga universe.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Even counting Super #13, #16 could still be the strongest Android (excluding Cell). There's nothing that says #16 wouldn't be able to demolish the Super Saiyans and Piccolo like Super #13 did, considering he's much stronger than a guy who's stronger than Super Saiyans.

[p123]

I don't think the guidebook saying 16 was the strongest android was meant to include the non canon Super Android 13 . Super Android 13 could be a bit above 16, but it's not needed either.

I have the Z Senshi is Movie 7, slightly improved over the Android Saga Z Senshi due to Goku >= Vegeta now. But that's subjective.

I have it like this...

Super Android 13 1,250,000,000
Android 16 1,000,000,000



I don't mind giving SA13 the edge here, I don't think it's a big deal, but that's a personal opinion...

[p123]

Bardock- The Father of Goku


Kakarot 2

Nappa 6,500

Bardock 9,500

King Vegeta 12,000

Prince Vegeta 12,500

















Dragonballs Saga




Bear Bandit 5

Kuririn 8

Son Goku ( W/o Tail ) 9

Yamucha 9

Gyuumao 15

Muten Roshi 20
~ Super Buff 70

Son Goku ( W/ Tail ) 10
~ Oozaru 100






21st Tenkaichi Budokai





Orin Temple Bullies 10

Yamucha 14

Giran 15

Kuririn 16

Namu 17

Son Goku ( W/o Tail ) 18

Jackie Chun 20
~ Buff 70

Son Goku ( W/ Tail ) 20
~ Oozaru 200






Red Ribbon Saga ( Muscle Tower )






Ninja Murasaki 16

Sergeant Metallic 18

Son Goku 20

Android 8 25






Red Ribbon Saga ( Part 2 )




Bora 15

Kuririn 16

General Blue 18

Son Goku 22

Tao Pai Pai 30

Son Goku ( Post Karin Training ) 36

Karin 75






Baba Saga



Dracula Man 10

Invisible Man 12

Yamucha 14

Kuririn 16

Mummy 22

( Mystery 4th Fighter ) 24

Devil Man 26

Gohan 35

Muten Roshi 20
~ Buff 35

Son Goku 36





22nd Tenkaichi Budokai



Chaozu 38

Yamucha 39

Kuririn 40

Tsuru ( Crane Hermit ) 55

Jackie Chun 46
~ Buff ( Suppressed ) 60
~ Buff 69

Son Goku ( Match Level ) 50
~ Battle Level 70

Tenshinhan 70






Piccolo Daimao Saga



Cymbal 45

Yajirobe 50

Tambourine 60

Tenshinhan 70

Son Goku (Vs Yajirobe ) 50
~ Full Power 70

Karin 75

Drum 85

Piccolo Daimao ( Old ) 150

Piccolo Daimao ( Young ) 200

Goku ( Super Sacred Water ) 205

Mr. Popo 300

Kami 450





23rd Tenkaichi Budokai



Yajirobe 120

Chaozu 140

Cyborg Tao 150

Yamucha 160

Kuririn 180

Tenshinhan 220

Shen 350

Piccolo Ma-Junior 600

Son Goku ( Weighted ) 220
~ W/o Weights 300
~ Full Power 600





Raditz Saga



Farmer 1

Muten Roshi ( Super Buff ) 139

Chaozu 155

Yamucha 177

Kuririn 206

Tenshinhan 250

Son Goku ( Weighted ) 334
~ W/o Weights 416
~ Full Power 840
~ Kamehameha 924

Son Gohan 1
~ Enraged 1 710
~ Enraged 2 1,307

Piccolo ( Weighted ) 322
~ W/o Weights 408
~ Full Power 825
~ Special Beam Cannon 1,330

Raditz 1,250

Enma 2,500

Kaio 3,500






Vegeta Saga





Yajirobe 800

Chaozu 1,000

Gohan 1,200

Saibamen 1,200

Yamucha 1,300

Kuririn 1,500

Tenshinhan 1,800
~ Kikoho 2,400

Piccolo 2,300

Enraged Gohan 2,400
~ Masenko 2,800

Nappa ( Initial ) 3,000
~ Full Power 8,000

Son Goku 8,100
~ Kaioken x2 16,200
~ Kaioken x3 24,300
~ Kaioken x4 32,400

Vegeta ( Initial ) 14,000
~ Full Power 18,000
~ Oozaru 180,000










Namek Saga


Freeza's Henchmen 1,200

Son Gohan 1,500

Kuririn 1,500

Appule 2,000

Namekians 3,000

Cui 18,000

Dodoria 20,000

Zarbon 22,000
~ Transformed 28,000

Vegeta 24,000
~ Zenkai 30,000




Ginyu Saga Part 1


Kuririn 11,500

Son Gohan 13,000

Vegeta 30,000
~ Final Crash 36,000

Reecome 40,000

Burter 40,000

Jeice 40,000

Nail 42,000

Vegeta ( Zenkai ) 50,000

Captain Ginyu 120,000

Son Goku 90,000
~ Kaioken x2 180,000





Ginyu Saga Part 2


Kuririn 23,000

Goku Ginyu 23,000

Son Gohan 27,000

Jeice 40,000

Vegeta 75,000




Freeza Saga Part 1


Chaozu 10,000

Yamucha 50,000

Tenshinhan 100,000

Kuririn 150,000

Son Gohan 275,000

Piccolo ( Weighted ) 275,000
~ W/o Weights 300,000

Vegeta 475,000

Freeza 530,000

( Hypothetical Kamiccolo ) ( Weighted ) ( 550,000 )
~ ( W/o Weights ) ( 600,000 )







Freeza Saga Part 2


Son Gohan 275,000
~ Enraged 1,100,000

Freeza ( 2nd Form ) ( Initial ) 1,060,000
~ Powered Up 1,200,000
~ Full Power 1,400,000

Piccolo ( Fused W/ Nail ) ( Weighted ) 1,250,000
~ W/o Weights 1,500,000

Son Gohan ( Zenkai ) 400,000
~ Enraged 1,600,000
~ Masenko 1,800,000

Freeza ( 3rd Form ) 1,850,000

Vegeta 2,400,000
~ Final Burst Canon 2,880,000

Freeza ( True Form ) ( Initial ) 2,250,000
~ True Initial Power 3,250,000
~ 50% 70,000,000
~ 50% Death Beam 85,000,000
~ 70% 98,000,000
~ 100% 140,000,000

Son Goku 3,000,000
~ Kaioken x10 30,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 60,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 Kamehameha 72,000,000
~ Spirit Bomb 75,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 150,000,000








Cooler's Revenge





Doore 220,000

Neiz 225,000

Sauza 275,000

Piccolo 300,000

Cooler ( Initial ) 3,750,000
~ Full Power 80,000,000
~ Final Form 160,000,000
~ Super Nova 200,000,000

Son Goku 4,000,000
~ Kaioken x10 40,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 80,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 Kamehameha 100,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 200,000,000
~ Kamehameha 250,000,000










Trunks Saga




Yamucha 100,000

Tenshinhan 150,000

Kuririn 200,000

Son Gohan 400,000

Vegeta 3,500,000

Piccolo 5,000,000

King Cold 75,000,000

Mecha Freeza ( Suppressed ) 80,000,000
~ Full Power ( Not Shown ) 160,000,000

Trunks 4,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 200,000,000

Son Goku 4,500,000
~ Super Saiyan 225,000,000









Future Saga Part 1



Piccolo 50,000,000

Vegeta 5,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 250,000,000

Son Goku 6,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 300,000,000

Android 18 350,000,000

Android 17 375,000,000









Future Saga Part 2


Son Gohan ( 2 arms ) 2,800,000
~ Super Saiyan 140,000,000

Son Gohan ( 1 arm ) 3,600,000
~ Super Saiyan 180,000,000

Trunks 4,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 200,000,000

Android 18 350,000,000

Android 17 ( 40% Power ) 150,000,000
~ Full Power 375,000,000







Cooler Returns




Vegeta 4,600,000
~ Super Saiyan 230,000,000

Son Goku 4,800,000
~ Super Saiyan 240,000,000

Meta Cooler 250,000,000
~ Regeneration 300,000,000
~ Regeneration ( 2 ) 350,000,000










Androids Saga



Yamucha 1,000,000

Tenshinhan 1,500,000

Kuririn 2,000,000

Son Gohan 4,000,000

Android 20 120,000,000
~ Post Absorption 180,000,000

Android 19 110,000,000
~ Post Absorption 220,000,000

Piccolo 240,000,000

Trunks 6,500,000
~ Super Saiyan 325,000,000

Son Goku 7,500,000
~ Super Saiyan 375,000,000

Vegeta 8,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 400,000,000
~ Big Bang Attack 550,000,000

Android 18 550,000,000














Cell Saga




Imperfect Cell 500,000,000
~ Kamehameha 550,000,000

Android 17 600,000,000

Kamiccolo ( Weighted ) 540,000,000
~ W/o Weights 600,000,000
~ Hellzone Grenade 700,000,000
~ Light Grenade 800,000,000

Imperfect Cell ( Post Absorptions ) 1,000,000,000

Android 16 1,000,000,000
~ Hell's Flash 1,000,000,000

Semi Cell 2,000,000,000











Super Android 13





Android 14 325,000,000

Trunks 7,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 350,000,000

Android 15 425,000,000

Vegeta 8,500,000
~ Super Saiyan 425,000,000

Son Goku 9,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 450,000,000

Android 13 500,000,000

Piccolo 650,000,000

Super Android 13 1,250,000,000














Cell Saga Part 2




Tenshinhan 1,500,000
~ Shin Kikoho 1,500,000,000

Son Goku 10,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 500,000,000
~ Ultra Super Saiyan 1,000,000,000
~ Ultra Super Saiyan ( Grade 2 ) 2,500,000,000

Semi Cell ( Suppressed ) 2,000,000,000
~ Full Power 3,000,000,000

Vegeta 75,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3,750,000,000
~ Ultra Super Saiyan 7,500,000,000
~ Final Flash 15,000,000,000

Trunks 70,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3,500,000,000
~ Ultra Super Saiyan 7,000,000,000
~ Ultra Super Saiyan ( Grade 2 ) 17,500,000,000

Perfect Cell ( Initial ) 6,250,000,000
~ True Power 12,500,000,000
~ Buff 18,750,000,000









Cell Games





Android 16 1,000,000,000

Piccolo 1,200,000,000

Trunks 350,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 17,500,000,000

Vegeta 360,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 18,000,000,000

Cell Juniors 20,000,000,000

Son Goku 4,800,000,000
~ 50% Super Saiyan 12,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 24,000,000,000

Perfect Cell 12,500,000,000
~ Powered Up 25,000,000,000
~ Full Power 50,000,000,000
~ Buff 75,000,000,000

Super Perfect Cell 100,000,000,000

Son Gohan 5,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 26,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 104,000,000,000

Injured SSJ2 Gohan 40,000,000,000
~ Enraged 120,000,000,000









Movie 8/9/10/OtherWorld Tournament



Olibu 4,000,000,000

Pikkon ( Weighted ) 4,500,000,000
~ Weighted Burning Shoot 18,000,000,000
~ W/o Weights 25,000,000,000

Bojack 40,000,000,000

Broly ( Movie 8 ) 600,000,000
~ Restricted Super Saiyan 30,000,000,000
~ Legendary Super Saiyan 75,000,000,000

Hatchyak 85,000,000,000

Broly ( Movie 10 ) 800,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Legendary Super Saiyan 100,000,000,000











Budokai





Hercule 2

Videl 3

Majin Spopovich 3

Majin Yamu 4

Yamucha 1,750,000

Kuririn 2,000,000

Kibito 100,000,000

Android 18 550,000,000

Goten 500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 1,000,000,000

Trunks 510,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 1,020,000,000
~ Big Tree Canon 1,200,000,000

Piccolo 1,750,000,000

Kaioshin 2,500,000,000

Son Gohan 4,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 22,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 90,000,000,000









Badibi Saga





Kuririn 2,000,000

Kibito 50,000,000

Piccolo 1,750,000,000

Kaioshin 2,500,000,000

Majin Pocus 3,500,000,000

Majin Yakkon 5,000,000,000

Son Gohan 4,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 22,500,000,000

Majin Dabura 23,500,000,000

Vegeta 6,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 30,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 120,000,000,000

Goku ( Suppressed ) 6,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 30,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Burst 120,000,000,000

Goku ( True Power ) 8,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 160,000,000,000

Majin Vegeta 8,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 160,000,000,000











Fat Boo Saga




Son Goten 500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2,500,000,000

Trunks 510,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2,550,000,000

Majin Dabura 23,500,000,000

Son Gohan 4,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 22,500,000,000
~ Kamehameha 45,000,000,000

Majin Vegeta 8,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 160,000,000,000
~ Final Explosion 480,000,000,000

Fat Boo ( Initial ) 40,000,000,000
~ Power Up 1 200,000,000,000
~ Full Power 400,000,000,000

Son Goku 8,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 160,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 480,000,000,000

Gotenks 200,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 500,000,000,000










Super Janemba Saga



Vegeta 8,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 160,000,000,000

Fat Janemba 750,000,000,000

Son Goku 12,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 62,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 250,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 1,500,000,000,000

Super Janmeba ( Vs Goku ) 2,000,000,000,000
~ Full Power 5,000,000,000,000

Gogeta 3,200,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 8,000,000,000,000









Fusion Saga



Tenshinhan 5,000,000
~ Kikoho 5,000,000,000

Son Goten 1,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 7,500,000,000

Trunks 1,550,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 7,750,000,000

( Base Gokule ) ( 8,000,002,000 )

KibitoShin 52,500,000,000

Good Boo 400,000,000,000

Evil Boo 600,000,000,000

Post Z Sword Gohan 150,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 375,000,000,000

Super Boo 8,000,000,000,000

Booccolo 8,004,800,000,000

Gotenks 600,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 3,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 9,000,000,000,000

Buff Boo 10,000,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan 12,000,000,000,000

Bootenks 17,001,750,000,000

( Base Gokan ) ( 20,000,000,000,000 )

Boohan 20,004,800,000,000

Vegetto 20,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 50,000,000,000,000









Kid Boo Saga Part 1


East Kaioshin 2,500,000,000

North Kaioshin 5,000,000,000

West Kaioshin 6,000,000,000

Dai Kaioshin 7,500,000,000

South Kaioshin 10,000,000,000

Fat Boo 400,000,000,000

Kid Boo 1,000,000,000,000

Buff Boo 10,000,000,000,000








Kid Boo Saga Part 2



Vegeta 8,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 160,000,000,000

Good Boo 400,000,000,000

Son Goku 8,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 160,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 960,000,000,000

Kid Boo 1,000,000,000,000









End of Z Saga



Good Boo 400,000,000,000

Oob ( Vs Goku ) 500,000,000,000
~ Rage Burst 1,000,000,000,000

Vegeta 480,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 1,200,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 2,400,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 7,200,000,000,000

Son Goku 500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 1,250,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 2,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 7,500,000,000,000

[Rocketman]

Dude, don't space things out so much, please.

[Son Edo]

What about 16 being the strongest Android(Not including Cell) does that include fused 13?

The Daizenshuu profile refers only to the manga, so it does not include or exclude.

That only means that the androids unseen in the manga (from no.9 to no.15) would not be stronger than no.16. However this may not apply to the movie story, since it doesn't necessarily follows the manga universe.

It has 13, 14 and 15 profiles so its likely including those guys aswell.

[p123]

Why not? I think it's much easier to read when spaced out. Unless your trying to just skip over, I don't see how not spacing it out, could make things better?

[jjgp1112]

I’ve made another attempt at making a power levels list. This is just an experimental little thing.
Multipliers
Super Saiyan 1: ~50x
-Grade 2: ~75x
-Grade 3: ~110x (revised in accordance to Kaboom's idea)
Super Saiyan 2: 100x
Super Saiyan 3: 400x

Trunks Saga
“Bulma really needs to close her legs…”

Trunks: 5 (suppressed)
Super Saiyan: 150,000,000

Goku: 3,200,000
Super Saiyan: 160,000,000

Fr­ieza: 3,400,000 (shown)
Full Power: 135,000,000

King Cold: 5,000,000 (shown)

Bulma
Orgasm with Yamcha: 2
Orgasm with Vegeta: 175,000,000

Android Saga
“VEGETA GOT BEAT BY A GIRL LOL”

Goku: 4,500,000
Super Saiyan: 225,000,000
Super Saiyan (Weakened): 200,000,000 (and falling)
Drained: ~1,500,000

Vegeta: 4,800,000
Super Saiyan: 240,000,000
Drained: 210,000,000
Drained, Base, Post-Big Bang Attack: 3,200,000

Android 19: 90,000,000
+Goku’s Energy: 130,500,000
+Vegeta’s Energy: 160,500,000

Android 20: 100,000,000
+Vegeta’s Energy: 130,000,000
+Piccolo’s Energy: 150,000,000

Piccolo: 180,000,000

Gohan: 1,500,000
Krillin: 170,000
Tie­n: 95,000
Yamcha: Cat Loves Food

Android 17: 310,000,000
Android 18: 285,000,000
Android 16: 385,000,000

Cell Saga
”WELL UH, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A RAPIST IN GINGERTOWN”

Piccolo: 310,000,000

Cell
Imperfect: 270,000,000
+Humans: 385,000,000
Semi-Perfect: 770,000,000
Perfect: 1,350,000,000 (suppressed)

Vegeta: 14,000,000
Super Saiyan: 700,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2: 1,050,000,000

Trunks: 13,200,000
Super Saiyan: 660,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 2: 990,000,000
Super Saiyan Grade 3: 1,450,000,000

Cell Games
”Oooh, miracle EMO POWA!”

Cell
Vs. Goku: 3,100,000,000
Full Power: 3,500,000,000
Buff: 6,800,000,000
Super Perfect: 6,200,000,000

Goku: 58,000,000
Super Saiyan (~50%): 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan (Full Power): 2,900,000,000
Super Saiyan (Tired): 950,000,000

Gohan: 60,000,000
Super Saiyan: 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000
Enraged: 6,500,000,000
Injured: 3,300,000,000

Vegeta: 34,000,000
Super Saiyan: 1,700,000,000

Trunks: 32,000,000
Super Saiyan: 1,600,000,000

Piccolo: 1,000,000,000

Cell Juniors: 1,900,000,000

Mr. Satan: 666,000,000,000
Shoelace untied: 6.66
Bewildered by the trickery and light shows: 5

Buu Saga
”This shit don’t make no goddamn sense.”

Gohan: 60,000,000
Super Saiyan: 3,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2: 5,900,000,000
Mystic: 40,000,000,000

Goku: 65,000,000
Super Saiyan: 3,250,000,000
Super Saiyan 2: 6,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 (Living World): 13,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 (Full Power): 26,000,000,000

Vegeta: 63,000,000
Super Saiyan: 3,150,000,000
Super Saiyan 2: 6,300,000,000
Majin: 6,500,000,000

Goten: 12,000,000
Super Saiyan: 600,000,000
Hyperbolic Time Chamber: 13,000,000
Super Saiyan: 650,000,000

Trunks: 13,000,000
Super Saiyan: 650,000,000
Hyperbolic Time Chamber: 14,000,000
Super Saiyan: 700,000,000

Piccolo: 1,500,000,000

Kibito: 55,000,000
Supreme Kai: 1,250,000,000
Seeing the letter “M”: 2
IQ: 75

Dabura: 3,350,000,000

Puipui: Fucking
Yakon: Useless

Gotenks: 80,000,000
Hyperbolic Time Chamber: 95,000,000
Super Saiyan: 4,750,000,000
Super Saiyan 3: 38,000,000,000

Majin Buu
Fat Buu: 8,150,000,000
Mr. Buu: 3,650,000,000
Evil Buu: 4,500,000,000
Super Buu: 33,000,000,000
Gotenks Buu: 72,500,000,000
Piccolo Buu: 34,500,000,000
Mystic Buu: 74,500,000,000
Kid Buu: 12,000,000,000

Vegetto: 4,200,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan: SYSTEM ERROR

[Kaboom]

Very nice. Looking a lot like the general range my lists end up in.

Something I do which has worked well and I'd suggest trying; make Super Saiyan Grade 3 an even BIGGER boost than Super Saiyan 2. It's appropriate given how much it over-emphasizes power to a fault, and it'll help the Vegeta-Cell-Trunks gaps seem more meaningful without having to sacrifice other things.

[jjgp1112]

Hmm...that works very well. I think I spent more time trying to configure those three power levels so the gaps would be larger than I did coming up with the rest of the list combined. Making the boost stronger would definitely rectify that, and like you said, show how the form is nothing but raw power.

[p123]

Super Saiyan Grade 3 is definitely an enormous boost. I don't see how anyone can make Super Saiyan 2 a bigger boost for Super Saiyan, than Super Saiyan Grade 3.

If freaking Goku can surpass Semi Cell with Super Saiyan Grade 3, it must be tremendous.

Super Saiyan 2 should probably be a 4x boost. Cell using half of his power against the MSSJ powers, and Cell half of SSJ2 Gohan makes sense considering that Buff Cell is still nothing to SSJ2 Gohan...

[Kaboom]

Cell may have actually been as strong or even stronger than Gohan with his buffed up Grade 3-like state, when you think about it. That would be his entire point in transforming like that, after all. But given that the only thing it seems to increase is raw attack power, it might still leave him just as vulnerable as he was before. If not even more so because of the speed decrease.

Also, we can't forget that Gohan at the time was, due to his flared emotions, getting even more power than he normally would from Super Saiyan 2 alone.

[p123]

I've considered that as well. One would think that with the way Super Saiyan Grade 3 has been shown off so far, and it's ability to surpass massive gaps, this would be the case.

But, I think it's best to think that Power and Defense correlate with the transformation, and only Speed decreases. Since Speed is the only thing that's factually stated to have dropped off ( as well as stamina of course ), I don't find it likely that the defensive abilities of that battle power, would be lost.

[Kaboom]

Well, I didn't mean to imply his actual defensive power dropped or anything. I guess a better way to put it is that his loss of speed, combined with his crazy and sloppy mindset at the time, left him more open to "critical hits" like the thundering kick to the head Gohan delivered. Something like that would certainly still have an effect even if Cell were Gohan's equal or even slight superior in power.

[p123]

I don't think it needs to be so complicated. Gohan wrecked Buff Cell because he was stronger than him. I don't think the story suggests what your saying.

It's one thing if you are talking about a stamina drop, but I'm pretty sure that's not suggested. Even so, that kind of stamina issue that Trunks had, seemed to just make him out of breath, and not lose power.

It's just more of your willingness to stretch the manga to match your guidebook logic IMO... I don't think we should pretend the manga is showing something, just because the guidebook says something went this way or another.

[Kaboom]

It's just more of your willingness to stretch the manga to match your guidebook logic IMO... I don't think we should pretend the manga is showing something, just because the guidebook says something went this way or another.

I think common sense would dictate that it's better to offer explanations for the official info (in this case the SSj2 multiplier, right?) rather than simply dismiss them for not fitting one's own interpretation of the numbers system.

It's certainly a plausible explanation, at least theoretically. But it's not even necessary, really. You could just say Gohan's extra "rage boost" power made him still stronger than Cell.

[p123]

The problem with that is that your debating based off a random number thrown out at you. Just look at the story, what does it tell you? Is the story suggesting that Buff Cell lost all of his defensive power? That his confidence was down and that's why he got wrecked?

I mean, it's not rocket science. Even a monkey can do this.