The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[CatouttaHell]

Goku at 416 was able to trade blows with Raditz at 1,500 for a short time.

Raditz was simply blocking all of Goku's blows. Nappa actually DODGED a kick from Goku.

A single blow from 1,307 Gohan weakened Raditz so much Shattered Ribs Goku could hold him in place.

Holding somebody doesn't require much; #16 was able to hold Perfect Cell.

[Godo]

Raditz was simply blocking all of Goku's blows. Nappa actually DODGED a kick from Goku.

Kuririn dodged attacks from stronger enemies several times, as did Gohan. 100% Freeza managed to dodge blows from SSJ Goku. Goku managed to get out of Radditz's sight before launching his Kamehameha. Kuririn who was weaker by a good amount than Piccolo Jr. managed to get in some good hits.
Hell, a person could easily dodge an automobile at a high speed if he wanted to. Dodging doesn't equal being on even terms. You could just be lucky.

Holding somebody doesn't require much; #16 was able to hold Perfect Cell.

Radditz: "You're still holding that much power?!". Yes, yes it does.
And also, Cell was playing with #16. The bomb wouldn't have done any damage after all.

[Fox666]

Raditz was simply blocking all of Goku's blows. Nappa actually DODGED a kick from Goku.

During the whole battle, Kuririn and the others dodged attacks from Nappa. So you are also contradicting yourself, since you are suggesting Nappa much be somewhat closer to Kuririn.

And also, Cell was playing with #16. The bomb wouldn't have done any damage after all.

It certainly would. Auto-destruction attacks are much stronger than any special technique.

For example, Cell in his semi-perfect form killed Goku after he trained in the RoSaT.

[p123]

416 is only Goku's battle power after he takes off the weights initially. Goku could have gotten a lot stronger afterwards considering that's what he did at the 23rd Budokai...

Also, Raditz being at 1,500 and Nappa being at 4,000 is just silly. Defending illogical numbers isn't really called for. It's much easier to just guesstimate what the actual number should be than to make stuff up to justify a non canon source.

Nappa at 3,000 against the Z Senshi, and 8,000 against Goku makes the most sense.

Raditz at 1,250 suffices as well.

See, no need to make up nonsense to account for bad numerics by people who never put more than a half of thought into them. Phew, that was easy.

[VegettoEX]

See, this is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread (and then expanded upon in a subsequent post) -- who died and made anyone King of Battle Power Authority to say that someone who wants to accept guide book battle powers (1500 and 4000, right? I don't actually know or care; I'm just here to moderate ^^;;) absolutely shouldn't?

Read what I said over there, come back, and let's get back to business.

[Kaboom]

From what I've heard, apparently all you have to do is clock more hours than Toriyama or the people at Shueisha did obsessing over the numbers, and that gives you the authority to declare what is or isn't factually correct about them.

Confuses me, too. I didn't know it worked like that.

[Fox666]

by people who never put more than a half of thought into them

Are you describing Toriyama? Because it suits him.

a non canon source.

Do you made any research to support your claim, or is it just because you don't like/agree with the Daizenshuu?

Defending illogical numbers isn't really called for. It's much easier to just guesstimate what the actual number should be than to make stuff up to justify

This is just a fictional universe. There is no "logic" to begin with, unless you can't distinguish beetween fantasy and reality.

Also, Raditz being at 1,500 and Nappa being at 4,000 is just silly.

And what makes the battle power that are in the manga not silly?

Nappa at 3,000 against the Z Senshi, and 8,000 against Goku makes the most sense.

Wasn't Nappa supposed to not be able to control his Ki? Perhaps Nappa is using the Kaio-ken?

Raditz at 1,250 suffices as well.

Enough with fanfictions, please.

[VegettoEX]

Stop with the snarky attitudes towards each other, please. I'm all for disagreeing and picking things apart, but if you're not going to do it nicely, you're not going to do it here at all.

[Rocketman]

make stuff up to justify a non canon source

Isn't that what you do all the time? Your numbers certainly aren't canon.

[p123]

I would definitely consider myself an authority on power levels, if you ask around, I'm sure in general people will agree with that to. I am to power levels, what Herms is to the translations bit. You guys would be well advised to keep your ears open when I'm displaying a point. I don't mind explaining my theories and going in depth, but I don't have a lot of time for snark. I'm the first guy to really figure out all of this crazy power stuff, and make it all work together, and correlate in a seamless fashion. You don't have to be that smart, and you don't need anything more than common sense to figure out a silly little thing like power levels. I have spent more time on working a numerical basis for the story than probably anyone ever. If that doesn't count for something, I don't know what does.

Now, before you serenade me with your cries of me being arrogant and how dare I's, just think about it logical, and use some common sense. It's not that outrageous as a claim, and your dealing with a man. I'm not a 13 year old boy who runs around half cocked like a pre pubescent runt. If you guys haven't noticed that guidebook numbers are less than perfect, your living in a fantasy world. But you seem to get all butt hurt when that truth comes out for whatever reason. It's not that big of a deal dude, it's just silly numbers. Why not take advantage of someone who has overdone it to the maximum degree? Anyway, the responses from the elitist crowd should be quite entertaining. Let's hear em.

[Kaboom]

Great, you've spent a lot of time obsessing over numbers, fantastic. Just quit labeling the official ones as "silly" for not agreeing with your "research" as if you're a president vetoing a bill or something. It's tiresome for those who DON'T obsess over them.

[p123]

Oh cmon now Kaboom. Give me some credit at least. Someone actually really put together a well thought out list, I would definitely be considering an authority on power levels across the fandom at least. I mean my logic spans multiple forums, and you will find droves of people who agree with my simplistic logical approach to them. I think it's more of a , The guidebooks are my bible, the bible is literal approach we see among crazy mid westerners who denounce evolution in light of Adam and Eve. You do see the comparison don't you?

[Kaboom]

Oh cmon now Kaboom. Give me some credit at least.

You seem to be giving yourself plenty of credit already.

[jjgp1112]

Wait a minute...if it's "silly numbers" to you...then why have you wasted so much time configuring them and treat yourself like some God for "knowing" them the best and act like it's some holy religion?

But anyway, this thread has gotten WAAAAAAY off course. New battle: Fruity Turles vs. Recoome.

[p123]

I'm just being realistic. It doesn't really matter anyhow. I'm probably the best power level guy ever, and what does that do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Gets your nowhere in life, and you get no accolades or anything. It doesn't matter, it's just a silly kid's show, I always wanted to know exactly how strong everyone was, and I figured, if I do a good job, at least I can give the fans something cool to look at. I've done this thing to a disgusting degree, and really put 100% effort in every detail, and every logic, and every theory for several years now, debated on every forum, every theory inside and out, it's a little silly to give me Oh Hell No treatment.

[Kaboom]

But anyway, this thread has gotten WAAAAAAY off course. New battle: Fruity Tullece vs. Recoome.

Tullece was on the defensive from Goku, whom he read on his scouter as "30,000 and rising." It's probably safe to assume Tullece was a little stronger than that, and then just ate the fruit to secure his win.

So if Tullece is around 40,000 to begin with, then he'd probably be an even match for Recoome in raw power. Recoome comes off to me as a tank though, so Tullece would have to try hard to put out more damage than Recoome can soak up. But he can probably pull it off.

Once Tullece ate the fruit, however, he became so strong that he easily smacked down Goku's Kaio-Ken x10. So he's gotta be up in around first-form Freeza's neighborhood of power.

So if Tullece doesn't eat a fruit, it's an even battle that he'll probably win. If he does, then he disintegrates Recoome without even breaking a sweat.

[p123]

Reecome only seems like a tank because he's fighting much weaker characters. Burter and Jeice should be able to pull off similar feats. Reecome takes this with ease.

Although, one fun little angle I can play is that it's implied that Tullece has an attack that can kill 100,000 Gohan. If Tullece really can kill 100,000 Oozaru Gohan, then, Reecome is no problem for him.

But that's probably TOEI not thinking things through, per usual.

[Fox666]

I would definitely consider myself an authority on power levels, if you ask around, I'm sure in general people will agree with that to. I am to power levels, what Herms is to the translations bit. You guys would be well advised to keep your ears open when I'm displaying a point. I don't mind explaining my theories and going in depth, but I don't have a lot of time for snark. I'm the first guy to really figure out all of this crazy power stuff, and make it all work together, and correlate in a seamless fashion. You don't have to be that smart, and you don't need anything more than common sense to figure out a silly little thing like power levels. I have spent more time on working a numerical basis for the story than probably anyone ever. If that doesn't count for something, I don't know what does.

You seems to assume that just because you spent a lot time, that give some credit to what you say.

But I will tell you it don't, in fact it's quite the opposite. Similarly to how you won't trust in a religious extremist, being obsessive makes you even less reliable.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I actually see Tullece (before fruit power-up) a bit weaker than Reacoom, but still close enough to give him a fight. I think the battle could go either way here. Reacoom's Eraser Gun would make take Tullece out quickly. With the fruit, Reacoom would get stomped easily.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Fruity Tullece vs. Recoome

Judging by his brief battle with Goku, who was "30,000 and rising", where Tullece was on the defensive, I think that before eating the fruit, Tullece would be 30,000. I know that this was a movie and all, meaning that they only had, like, 45 minutes to fit everything in, but Tullece did seem to go, "Fuck this, I'm eating the fruit", after a short scuffle with Goku, who'd presumably exceeded his expectations. And Goku only looked like he was losing until after Tullece ate the fruit.

So I think pre-fruit Tullece would get trashed by Recoom. It would be a fight akin to Vegeta vs. Recoom, but I doubt that Tullece has Vegeta's tenacity.

But after eating the fruit, Tullece was strong enough to knock down Goku's Kaio-Ken x10, which would be over 300,000 at this point. So Tullece would absolutely wreck Recoom.