Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[jjgp1112]

The way the story went down clearly showed that Cell lost anything resembling sanity. The reason why he used the form in the first place was precisely because of that. It makes sense that he would pump out his power enough to be stronger than Gohan, but be so slow that all of his attacks miss and I don't know about you, but even if you're slightly stronger than someone, a fierce kick straight to the face will still hurt like hell. He was unfocused and crazy.

[p123]

That's not suggested by the story at all.

People who are weaker than you, or on par with you, don't make you throw up like that.

[Kaboom]

The problem with that is that your debating based off a random number thrown out at you. Just look at the story, what does it tell you? Is the story suggesting that Buff Cell lost all of his defensive power? That his confidence was down and that's why he got wrecked?

I'm working with the quite workable information given to me by the people authorized to decide and publish such information. It's not "random." It works. I and plenty of other people use it just fine. People who don't dwell on power levels have no problem with it.

Again, the "critical hits" thing is a theory I offered, and not even necessary to make the SSj2 boost work. Gohan's extra rage power is capable of satisfying that would-be "problem" just fine.

[p123]

Either way, SSJ2 Gohan is greatly superior to Buff Cell, so much so, that he punches him in his gut, and makes him throw up a previous absorption. That's insane.

[Kaboom]

Either way, SSJ2 Gohan is greatly superior to Buff Cell, so much so, that he punches him in his gut, and makes him throw up a previous absorption. That's insane.

... He kicked him. In the head.

[jjgp1112]

That's not suggested by the story at all.

People who are weaker than you, or on par with you, don't make you throw up like that.

Normal people don't have the same physiology as Cell. Him throwing up an Android that's the source of his power level is very abnormal. Piccolo's explanation seemed to suggest it was because his Ki had fallen so much. Not to mention...HE GOT KICKED IN THE FACE.

[Rocketman]

That's not suggested by the story at all.

People who are weaker than you, or on par with you, don't make you throw up like that.

I dunno about that. I'm pretty sure I could hit you hard enough to make you barf, and we're far less than a 1 point difference.

[Fox666]

Well, I didn't mean to imply his actual defensive power dropped or anything. I guess a better way to put it is that his loss of speed, combined with his crazy and sloppy mindset at the time, left him more open to "critical hits" like the thundering kick to the head Gohan delivered. Something like that would certainly still have an effect even if Cell were Gohan's equal or even slight superior in power.

That's quite an interesting idea.

Gohan rarely avoided Cell attacks since he transformed in Super Saiyan 2, and instead blocked them all. As Cell transforms, Gohan dodged them. In terms of strength, I suppose it's not unreasonable that Cell surpassed Gohan.

Perhaps even if Cell increased his physical strength it didn't gives him any defense, or even makes it worse with a body of that size. Looking at the panel, it looks like Gohan attack had an effect similar to a brain stroke in Cell. Perhaps that's why his body rejected no.18.

[p123]

I highly doubt that you could make me barf. I do striking training 3x a week , and you are probably the typical DB guy, whereas I'm not. KO by the end of the first minute. Lol.

[Godo]

I highly doubt that you could make me barf. I do striking training 3x a week , and you are probably the typical DB guy, whereas I'm not. KO by the end of the first minute. Lol.

It seems like that you are wrongly trained, then. A weaker guy in real life can down a stronger guy without any trouble with striking the right place. That's what kind of principle martial arts and self-defense are built upon (even MMA).
Now, I am pretty well trained myself, but if I was weaker than you, I'd hit you really hard in the temple, in the back of your skull or in your solar plexus, and you'd be barfing worse than a three year old who got hold of his father's eggnog on Christmas eve.
We are not measuring dicks here, we are stating fact. If you really believe that doing striking training three times a week counts for anything, and also believe that a normal, untrained person couldn't take you down, then I don't understand what you are doing there at all. It both seems like that you are unable to learn the fundamentals in a fight, humility and also one day people like you will get smacked down so hard by a "typical DB guy" that you'll end up in the hospital. I've seen it.

On Topic, Piccolo Jr. vs. Goku showed that even though they were even, they could almost destroy each other with single blows. Just look at the gut punch by Goku to Piccolo.
Also, I don't think that Cell barfing had to do with the last punch, but with the damage he had accumulated. Since he got that much damage, his body got too much to handle, and it had to reject #18 to be able to get some stability.

[p123]

There's no way anyone on this forum could touch me. I've been boxing since 5th grade, and been doing MT for some time now, and besides, striking is irrelevant. One of the things DB got wrong. Striking, without grappling is irrelevant. And you don't just get lucky with grappling, either you know what your doing, or you don't. So I'd probably just take down every one and pound them out, or choke them out. That's just how fighting works my man. And that's under a decent rule set, in a street fight, I'm more likely to take someone down, and pluck their eye balls out, or switch to north / south control and try to knee their skull through their spine.

[VegettoEX]

There are SEVERAL folks on this forum that are EXTREMELY well-trained and educated in SEVERAL fighting/defense disciplines, but have chosen not to flaunt this knowledge. Coming in with arrogance about what you think you know, particularly when compared to peers you know absolutely nothing about, probably isn't the best route to take, especially when it's BARELY on-topic.

I've had just about enough of your "Well I know this" and "I've spent time doing this" and "I say this so the end" attitude. Whether it's battle powers, training, fighting -- whatever -- it's enough. Your lack of humility is beyond astonishing.

This will be your one and only free warning. If you're unable to keep things friendly, humble, and on-topic, you will not be contributing to this community any further.

Either this conversation gets back on-topic, or the extended community as a whole is just going to continue to prove to me why battle power discussions are worthless and do not promote friendship, camaraderie, and critical thinking to the rest of the community.

[hleV]

The reason why I don't participate in these BP debates is because I have no idea of characters' power progression after Freeza arc.

The power progression until Saiyan arc was such low compared to afterwards. Then they get gravity training, near-death power-ups, potential unlocking, more near-death power-ups... From barely thousands they went to millions. Now, after they were in millions, how did their power progress afterwards?
Like, Goku's at 3,000,000. How does his power grow during his normal training? Is it as slow as in early series, like only gaining one or two hundreds, or because of his already high capabilities, the training result is much better, like a million or two?

Goku's power:

• The beginning: 10
  7 or 8 years later: 900(?)
  5 years later: 900(?)
  1 year later: 8,000
  Months(?) later: 90,000
  BAM: 3,000,000

How are we supposed to tell how he progressed afterwards, when there's no constant formula of his progression ever? One might think it continued to grow ridiculously fast as it did once Goku died for the first time, growing not by a fixed amount, but by getting few times stronger than before.
We could assume that during the multiple peace times the progression wasn't as high, but if it was too low, it may look weird in comparison to how they progressed in other instances.

[p123]

Vegetto I could care less what you think buddy.

[jjgp1112]

The best way to do it is really just by going by feats and statements presented by the characters, as well as information in the guidebooks, and making your best guess based on those. Power levels really aren't that necessary, though - I just find it a [theoretically] fun way of gauging and formulating everyone's power.

[Kaboom]

How are we supposed to tell how he progressed afterwards, when there's no constant formula of his progression ever?

We can just give it our best guess, is all. Even if there's no numbers or direct statements about it, we can still get creative. There's plenty of broad "hints" that anyone can observe and work with.

For example, the main way Goku got up from the low thousands all the way into the low millions during the Namek and Freeza arc was through healing boosts (they were actually even the main reason he benefited so much from his gravity training). Those are noted to have all but disappeared from the story after Freeza, so barring any big special circumstances, it's not likely Goku and the others' "base" powers continued to grow at such an extreme rate. But a big part of the Androids and Cell arc's plot was about the heroes finding new ways to improve Super Saiyan, so most of their growth would probably be a result of that, directly or otherwise. Yet then later, Goku and Gohan are back to using regular ol' Super Saiyan, yet are still way stronger than all the other heroes. Which would inversely mean that their base powers are now high enough that they're superior overall even with an inferior transformation. It's the same kind of thing with the Majin Boo arc, with Fusion and other such crazy stuff going on.

Since we have official multipliers and stuff like that available, it's usually pretty easy to figure out just how people stack up against each other. The only thing that really changes is the ranges and actual numbers people pick. Like, if Goku and Vegeta during the Androids arc are both at, say, 200 million as Super Saiyans, then Person A might put Androids 17 and 18 at around 400 million, while Person B might think 300 million fits better. That's where the differences come in.

But like jjgp said, it's all about giving it your own interpretation and having fun.

[TripleRach]

Vegetto I could care less what you think buddy.

I think you mean you couldn't care less, or else you'd actually be considerate of what he has to say. And you've constantly shown disrespect and disdain towards other forum members, so I don't think that's the case.

But as promised, your last public warning was indeed the final one, so I hope you have more fun in other communities.

Back to normal shounen fun, everyone.

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

jjgp1112 has good decent power levels on page 63. I can't understand why I put base saiya-jins power levels in 100,000,000 instead of going by Kaboom's 10,000,000-90,000,000 for base saiya-jin power levels in Cell Games arc, and Majin Boo arc.

Perhaps, I'll try for myself for these base saiya-jins battle power less than 100,000,000 for Cell Games arc and Majin Boo arc.

[CatouttaHell]

jjgp1112 has good decent power levels on page 63. I can't understand why I put base saiya-jins power levels in 100,000,000 instead of going by Kaboom's 10,000,000-90,000,000 for base saiya-jin power levels in Cell Games arc, and Majin Boo arc.

Perhaps, I'll try for myself for these base saiya-jins battle power less than 100,000,000 for Cell Games arc and Majin Boo arc.

That's really contradictory. Nothing whatsoever suggests the Saiya-jins are so insanely weak.

Kaioshin is worlds above Freeza and possibly Piccolo and yet is afraid of (and considered by Babidi to be below) even Pui-Pui, who Base Vegeta effortlessly destroyed.

[jjgp1112]

Since when is near the hundreds of millions "insanely weak?" Not only that...but their base power really doesn't even matter that much. I just listed it because it's there. A lot of their training from the Cell saga onward focuses solely on their Super Saiyan forms, which they make tremendous gains with that naturally extend to their base power. And not only that, but when you consider the numerous conflicting statements in the Buu saga and virtually everyone developing crippling brain injuries at some point...what's the point in jumping down somebody's throat because they disagree with you?