Majin Buu; a test of strength!

[Perfect]

This topic is meant to collect information on all the "who's" stronger nonsense during the Buu saga. Hopefully it can be used as a type of headquarters for all the debating/arguing that goes on about Buu and which of his forms are stronger, or at least a large resource for people to gather their own points from or the counterpoints.

To kick things off, I'd like to start with Buu's evolutionary involvement throughout the series. I'll be starting in chronological order from the origins of the character as opposed to what we first see! So don't get confused along the way.

Ordering:

Pure Majin Buu:
This is the first Buu to have ever existed in the Dragon Ball universe. He's small in stature and is stated in the manga to be the most dangerous in the sense of lethality! This is stated because of his ludicrous personality which makes him much more subjectable to impulsive acts.

Chronologically in-universe: 1st
Chronologically on-screen: 9th
Chapter: 508

+South Kaioshin absorbed (Pure Buu):
This is the overly muscular form Pure Buu assumes after he assimilates the Southern Kaioshin. This Buu also appears when he's regressing to his original form after Good Buu is removed from Evil Buu by Goku and Vegeta.

Chronologically in-universe: 2st
Chronologically on-screen: 8h
Chapter: 507

+Dai Kaioshin absorbed (Innocent Majin Buu):
Upon taking this form, the muscular Pure Buu takes on the physique and personality of Dai Kaioshin mixed with his own, creating a childlike Majin Buu.

Chronologically in-universe: 3rd
Chronologically on-screen: 1st
Chapter: 460

-Evil (Good Majin Buu):
Essentially this form of Buu is nearly the same as the one prior. Taking the evil away from the incorporated good of Dai Kaioshin, this Buu retains the same physical attributes.

Chronologically in-universe: 4th
Chronologically on-screen: 2nd
Chapter: 485

Pure Evil Majin Buu:
This Buu is the byproduct of all the evil that Innocent Buu expelled from his body. He's skinny, retains all the evil of Pure Buu, but still has the mentality to comprehend simple things.

Chronologically in-universe: 5th
Chronologically on-screen: 3rd
Chapter: 485

+Good Majin Buu absorbed (Evil Majin Buu):
This particular Buu happens to be the product of Pure Evil Buu eating Good Buu and absorbing him through such means. He retains a more muscular physique in comparison to before and has a gradual power increase.

Chronologically in-universe: 6th
Chronologically on-screen: 4th
Chapter: 486

+Gotenks absorbed (Evil Majin Buu):
This absorption gives Evil Buu the intelligence as well as the memories and power of Gotenks. He's given a longer antenna in the back plus a vest.

Chronologically in-universe: 7th
Chronologically on-screen: 5th
Chapter: 499

+Piccolo absorbed (Evil Majin Buu):
This Buu comes from the fact Buu had already absorbed Piccolo when he absorbed Gotenks, it was just never shown until the fusion wore off due to Gotenks being the dominant power. The vest disappears in the process and Piccolo's cape is shown on him instead.

Chronologically in-universe: 8th
Chronologically on-screen: 6th
Chapter: 502

+Gohan absorbed (Evil Majin Buu):
Upon losing Gotenks, Buu took it upon himself to absorb the all powerful Gohan. His antenna grows once more and he gains Gohan's clothing and intelligence plus his memories and things alike.

Chronologically in-universe: 9th
Chronologically on-screen: 7th
Chapter: 502

Who's stronger?

Now that we've established what Buu came from where and all that cool stuff, it's time to analyze the common arguments for what Buu's stronger than etcetera. I'd also like it if you'd all keep in mind this is all manga based, given if we did a thorough dissection of the anime, it'd be a lot more time consuming to make. As an editorial note, I'd like to point out the weaker of the two will always be listed first for the sake of organization. If a character is made clear to be stronger in the manga and plagued by ridiculous arguments that oppose it and you're here to use this guide as a reference towards anyone doing such, please feel free to quote segments at your discretion.

Evil Buu or Pure Buu?
This one comes up fairly frequently so I'd like to address it first.

--Pure Buu:
I. One of the first and foremost argument for this is based upon the dialogue between Goku and Vegeta inside of Evil Buu's body about leaving with the pods of the other Z-senshi. This stems from Goku stating they're too weak to go out in their current forms to fight the weakened Evil Buu.

II. Another common reason for thinking this is that as Evil Buu regressed from his initial state, Goku comments on his chi skyrocketing.

III. A somewhat popular reason also used is how Goku and Vegeta laughed at Pure Buu's “size”, referring to his height only.

IV. The often confused context, gradually due to the anime but not entirely, where Pure Buu is stated to be the most dangerous of the Buu's is one of reasons used generally.

V. A... rather idiotic explanation given is that Goku was holding back because he still wanted the Earth to fend for itself.

VI. Somewhat similar in a retrospective to the first reason here, Goku wasn't sure he'd return to normal size and simply assumed he'd get maimed.

VII. The Southern Kaioshin wasn't present in Evil Buu's body during the time that he was regressing into Pure Buu is a lesser used explanation.

VIII. Evil Majin Buu lost his power because of Kaioshin's statement about his heart changing, which in turn showed compliments the fact Evil Buu was afraid of losing himself if Good Buu was removed.

IX. Goku was ready to go fight Evil Buu with Gotenks absorbed without hesitation, meaning he wasn't afraid.

X. Goku ponders the thought of bringing both Gotenks and Gohan back, which shows that they'd need Gotenks to help Gohan.

XI. Gohan's chi donated to the Genki-dama wasn't enough to finish Buu off alone.

XII. Vegeta suggests to destroy Good Buu because none of them could handle him.

XIII. Goku shouldn't have cared about Buu being reborn because Gohan could handle him.

Below are the equivalent reasons that disprove the above for Evil Buu's favor.

--Evil Buu:
I. Goku actually heavily implies that Evil Buu is absurdly above both he and Vegeta, meaning that if they were to go outside of his body, it'd be suicide. However, when Goku states if they were to go outside in their current state, he's simply, and rather obviously referring to the fact that they're not fused. This is addressed as the two not being fused because Goku right after states the two of them need to fuse in order to beat Buu or it won't do them any good. Thus the entire reasoning for speculating Pure Buu is stronger because of Goku's statement is debunked.

II. While it's true Goku does comment on Buu's chi skyrocketing, it's simply not true that it remained that high. We're shown Buu's South Kaioshin-absorbed state as he regresses into Pure Buu. Immediately after his chi went down considerably (Which is elaborated on below).

III. When Goku and Vegeta actually laugh at Buu's “size”, they're laughing because he's “little”. With that said, Goku and Vegeta weren't suddenly hit with a retardation ray that made them unable to sense their opponent's chi. They were laughing not only at his size, but because of how weak he'd become (Given it's not verbally specified, but they weren't worried about his power given they could obviously sense his chi like they did a moment ago). Vegeta himself was confident he'd beat him and actually prepares to challenge him a moment before Buu began to charge a planet bursting attack. The two only get worried as Buu psychotically throws powerful blasts around. Plus even if you take into account Buu and Goku in his Super Saiyan 3 state were fighting near equally, both Goku and Vegeta were confident Goku'd win.

IV. Pure Buu is stated to be the most dangerous of the Buus in the manga; true. However, this is meant in the context of lethality because of how demented this particular Buu happens to be. This Buu may be dwarfed in power when compared to Evil Buu, but he sure had no problem taking out the Earth instantly without a thought. He can't even speak properly, let alone contemplate anything more than destruction and probably candy.

V. There's absolutely no indication that Goku was holding back in his fight with Pure Buu. The only thing we see is his stamina being drained because of the strain of Super Saiyan 3.

VI. There's really no indication Goku wasn't sure about returning to his initial size. The only reason that ever comes up is the statement about being too weak to leave Buu's body, which is based upon the context of fusion; so still no indication whatsoever.

VII. The Southern Kaioshin absorbed state was clearly visually represented in chapter 508. There's a multitude of theories that could work as to why that form is present, but all we need to know is that the form is visually there.

VIII. This all ties in with the context Pure Buu is a more lethal persona compared to Evil Buu. While Pure Buu has a chaotic nature, Evil Buu had a self composed, cocky and often evil finesse about him.

IX. This isn't the first time Goku was prepared to jump into a fight knowing he'd lose. Take Perfect Cell for example. He was pretty confident he'd lose to Cell in the end, but had an ace up his sleeve. Goku could have easily done the fusion dance with Gohan (Which the Elder Kaioshin remarks as in superior to his fusion). Even if Goku didn't have this in mind, he'd be able to save Gohan by teleporting the both of them a safe distance away to think of something.

X. This is rhetorical question stated by Goku in the 514th of the manga. He's merely stating ideas off the top of his head. Bringing both of them back would be in the category of being safe as opposed to sorry. This precaution could be in case Pure Buu absorbs another of them or turns one of them into chocolate.

XI. Of course Gohan's chi donated to the Genki-Dama wouldn't be enough in itself. For one he didn't donate too much of anything since he wasn't even winded. It's clear he only gave a small fraction to give a start to the attack. However it should also be noted that if Gohan did, which is possible, he could have given his genki (Given the Genki-Dama may just feed on one's genki). Also, some speculate that Gohan's chi wasn't even all there yet. Plus from an out of universe perspective, Toriyama was really going down to Dragon Ball's roots with the teamwork motto and making an effort to support them theme of the Earthling's supporting themselves in crisis which is initially what Goku tried doing with Goten and Trunks.

XII. This is actually a very wide misconception. Vegeta actually states in the 517th chapter that if he gives birth to the “Evil Buu” or “Terrible Buu” again, what will they do? In reality Gohan should be able to take him down if such were to happen, but this is actually justifiable. Gohan did fight Evil Buu and lost (Getting himself absorbed), so what would stop Buu from doing something similar? It's merely a precaution that Vegeta would prefer not to go through again, especially since fusing with Goku again would be out of the question.

XIII. Goku cared about Buu's rebirth because he viewed him as a worthy pupil and knew he'd be the one he'd pass down his knowledge to. This actually supports one of the deeper ending themes in the story, that Goku's finally fully graduated from student to master and is ready to pass down the torch to his student. This theme is actually shown visually when Goku sees his younger self (The rambunctious student eager to learn new things) in Uub.

Conclusion!

The manga in itself makes the notion that Evil Buu is far superior in strength to Pure Buu and that arguing about it makes as much sense as saying Freeza was stronger on Namek than Perfect Cell was at the Cell Games. This is mainly because saying Pure Buu being stronger tends to contradict contextual evidence left by the story in the manga.

Pure Evil Buu or Good Buu?

Believe it or not, I've actually seen this argument a few times. I've really only heard one reason towards it that didn't sound ridiculous. However, I'll list another just show ludicrous some people are with exaggerating their favorite characters' power.

--Good Buu:
I. Pure Evil Buu had surprised Buu, causing him to act irrational in comparison to his composed opponent.

II. Pure Evil Buu technically didn't have Dai Kaioshin or South Kaioshin inside him, therefore Good Buu was stronger (Just look at him, he's even fat still).

--Pure Evil Buu:
I. How was Good Buu surprised? I don't see a single panel where he's anything less than pissed off/nervous (Aside from the last panel where he knows he's finished and even at that, look at how nervous he was by Pure Evil Buu's presence). Even if that were the case, Pure Evil Buu was merely toying with him. You can tell entirely based on the effect of Innocent Buu's attacks towards him. There's absolutely no indication Good Buu would ever be a match for the evil he expelled.

II. This can be seen from multiple perspectives. It can be as simple as the Kaioshins were so far integrated into Buu that, there's no telling what Buu they really ended up in. However the obvious reason that really explains everything is that, Pure Evil is the evil that was vented from Innocent Buu. It's the same thing with Kami and Piccolo Daimao. This in no way even implies that Good Buu is a match for Pure Evil Buu.

Conclusion!
There's really nothing in the story that hints at all towards Good Buu ever posing a decent chance of beating Pure Evil Buu, no matter how hard you try to over analyze it. As the aforementioned from the last conclusion stated, this argument for Good Buu winning isn't at all plausible.

Majin Buu or Goku?

This one comes up very frequently so I've decided to group a multitude of Buu's forms into this section. It's clear that if Majin Vegeta wasn't a match for Innocent Buu, then neither would SSJ2 Goku, especially given how timid he was acting during Buu's revival.

Super Saiyan 3 Goku or Innocent Buu?

--Innocent Buu:
I. In the 476th chapter, Piccolo asks Goku if he would have been able to defeat Majin Buu in his Super Saiyan 3 state, replying that he “probably” would have lost.

II. Goku miscalculated against Pure Buu with his Super Saiyan 3 strength, so it's possible he misjudged Innocent Buu as well, given he did also say Innocent Buu's strength was like a lie.

III. Innocent Buu wasn't even trying in his fight against Goku, given he was agitated that Goku was leaving because he was having fun.

IV. Goku couldn't even beat Pure Buu at Super Saiyan 3, but he states that he could prior.

--Super Saiyan 3 Goku:
I. In the 509th chapter, Goku states to Vegeta that he actually could have beaten Majin Buu in his Super Saiyan 3 state and he wanted the Earth to defend itself.

II. Goku's miscalculated a lot of things, like how long it'd take him to get a senzu for Videl. There's nothing that implies he miscalculated Innocent Buu's strength.

III. While it's clear neither Goku nor Buu were really trying their hardest, that in itself isn't concrete evidence towards Buu being stronger. All it's saying is that neither of them were trying. When Buu first hits Goku, it doesn't do any damage. The two of them were merely making sport of each other.

IV. What does this even have to do with Innocent Buu? Whenever I see this argument, it usually revolves around, “if Goku couldn't beat Pure Buu at 'full power', how would he beat Innocent Buu?” Has anyone that's said this ever thought that Pure Buu is obviously stronger than Innocent Buu? Hell, they don't usually even mention that Goku's dead when he fought Innocent Buu which lightened the Super Saiyan 3 strain.

Evil Buu or Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

--Super Saiyan 3 Goku:
I. Goku beat Pure Buu, therefore he's stronger than Evil Buu.

II. Goku was prepared to rescue Gohan from Evil Buu when he had Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed, so there's no way Goku is weaker.

III. Goku was only afraid of leaving Buu's body because he was small and wasn't sure if he'd return to normal size.

IV. Goku fought with Evil Buu when he had Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed so this is solid proof.

--Evil Buu:
I. Goku beat Pure Buu because everyone donated their genki to his Genki-Dama. It wasn't a battle of, “Goku pummeled Pure Buu and finished him off with a Kamehameha”.

II. In the 501st chapter, Elder Kaioshin warns Goku that his effort would be wasted because even if he and Gohan were to go up against him as a team, they'd still pale in comparison to this Majin Buu. Goku's face also shows worry as he prepares to go and save Gohan. There's just no conclusive evidence towards this that makes any remote sense, that Goku was confident he'd beat Buu.

III. When Goku says they'd be killed if they left Buu's body, he immediately soon after refers to the fusion technique, implying their individual strengths wouldn't be enough to handle the weaker, now Evil Buu.

IV. That was entirely filler created by the anime. Even if it were in the manga, which is isn't, it wouldn't prove anything, because Goku did no actual damage to Buu.

--Super Saiyan 3 Goku or Pure Buu:

-Awaiting points from both sides-


Conclusion
I. Nothing really contradicts Goku's statement about being able to finish Innocent Buu when he had the chance, aside from him miscalculating, but there's no evidence towards that.

II. Nothing suggests that Evil Buu is really weaker than Goku, generally all the evidence in just about every argument for it based on logic that's irrelevant to the manga, completely made up or something that's already been established as wrong.

III. I couldn't think of really any good arguments for either side, so I'm waiting on people to post their opinions.

Evil Buu or Gotenks?

Pure Buu or South Kaioshin absorbed?

Gohan or Gotenks?

Goku or Gotenks?

Goku or Gohan?

I couldn't think of too many good reasons for any of the ones I didn't do anything for. I would like to address them but in order for that I'd need a good source for various stances on the arguments, though someone could list them below if they'd like. I'm also willing to add any point of view to any of these, as well as debate them.

The Z senshi thank all y'all, http://imageftw.com/uploads/20111016/zsn.png

[lash]

Just skimmed, and I'll read it more intensively later(bit of a TL;DR as of now for me). But this grabbed my attention.

[--Super Saiyan 3 Goku or Pure Buu:
Super Saiyan 3 Goku is likely stronger, but his stamina wore down too fast, if Goku were dead like he was prior, he'd be more resilient to the strain and probably would have finished Pure Buu off.

Not likely. Goku started the fight at full power and wasn't given the chance to finish Boo off. Which would be his fault not the form's(not looking for an opening in the opponent). In terms of natural battle power alone and not Ki gathered with all the user's might/ single point, Pure Boo and Goku were demonstrated to be roughly equal in battle power. It all came down to whoever pulled off the finishing move first.

If Goku was dead, not much would have changed in the actual battle. He didn't even realize a conflict with SSJ3 until AFTER he tried gathering Ki. He still would have lost stamina at the same rate, and likely still wouldn't have found that opening to finish Boo off. The only difference is he would have actually been able to rev his Ki to full power again after asking Vegeta to stall. With Vegeta in the progress of fighting Boo, this would give Goku the opening. He would likely then erase Boo however way he was planning on doing it(charged Ki attack? Kamehameha/ RyuKen, blah blah).

[Perfect]

Just skimmed, and I'll read it more intensively later(bit of a TL;DR as of now for me). But this grabbed my attention.

[--Super Saiyan 3 Goku or Pure Buu:
Super Saiyan 3 Goku is likely stronger, but his stamina wore down too fast, if Goku were dead like he was prior, he'd be more resilient to the strain and probably would have finished Pure Buu off.

Not likely. Goku started the fight at full power and wasn't given the chance to finish Boo off. Which would be his fault not the form's(not looking for an opening in the opponent). In terms of natural battle power alone and not Ki gathered with all the user's might/ single point, Pure Boo and Goku were demonstrated to be roughly equal in battle power. It all came down to whoever pulled off the finishing move first.

If Goku was dead, not much would have changed in the actual battle. He didn't even realize a conflict with SSJ3 until AFTER he tried gathering Ki. He still would have lost stamina at the same rate, and likely still wouldn't have found that opening to finish Boo off. The only difference is he would have actually been able to rev his Ki to full power again after asking Vegeta to stall. With Vegeta in the progress of fighting Boo, this would give Goku the opening. He would likely then erase Boo however way he was planning on doing it(charged Ki attack? Kamehameha/ RyuKen, blah blah).

Well you can tell that I really didn't put any effort into that given I just summarized something I read from someone and took a look at the manga briefly (To see the context on the subject, though I morose skimmed it); I suppose that's where I really started getting lazy from lack of sources from both sides.

If anyone would like to argue or debate what you said then that'd definitely make a good replacement. For the time being I'll just leave it blank like I did with the ones below it. :p

[Fox666]

Goku or Gohan?

Shouldn't that be more than clear based on their "performance" against Gotenks-absorbed Evil Boo?

[Nazi Cola]

Another good point is what someone pointed out in the last Boo thread about Goku saying he could've beaten Fat Boo but didn't mention Super Boo. I brought it up and a guy said Fat Boo was the first so he was the catalyst of everything so his importance trumped every other Boo's, and that Goku never had a chance to fight Boo so he wouldn't know anyway. It's just like .

[Fox666]

But that's not necessarily the case. Vegeta told Goku he wanted to see his Super Saiyan 3, and Goku was just telling Vegeta he didn't go all out against Innocent Boo.

Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”

But I guess when Goku says "with that fat Boo" he is kind of excluding some of the other forms.


Nevertheless, wasn't the whole point of Vegeta removing the Innocent Boo from Evil Boo to weaken him? I mean, they weren't expecting his copy to melt and he undergo an exhaustive transformation.

[dbgtFO]

I felt like I wanted to give my thoughts on the arguments used.

Evil Buu or Pure Buu?
[...]
Below are the equivalent reasons that disprove the above for Evil Buu's favor.

--Evil Buu:
III. When Goku and Vegeta actually laugh at Buu's “size”, they're laughing because he's “little”. With that said, Goku and Vegeta weren't suddenly hit with a retardation ray that made them unable to sense their opponent's chi. They were laughing not only at his size, but because of how weak he'd become (Given it's not verbally specified, but they weren't worried about his power given they could obviously sense his chi like they did a moment ago). Vegeta himself was confident he'd beat him and actually prepares to challenge him a moment before Buu began to charge a planet bursting attack. The two only get worried as Buu psychotically throws powerful blasts around. Plus even if you take into account Buu and Goku in his Super Saiyan 3 state were fighting near equally, both Goku and Vegeta were confident Goku'd win.

I think the original dialouge actually makes it clearer than the english translation:

Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”

Like in that other thread, I pointed out how Goku remarks "We did it!", well what did they do exactly? Well inside Buu after realizing they couldn't use the potara anymore Goku wanted to turn Buu back into his fat form, because then they wouldn't need the potara at all.
So it seems like their plan was something like: making Buu weak enough for them to be able to fight him without the need of the potara.(credit goes to jackjack for pointing this out in an old thread)
As you can see this is backed up by Goku's next sentence.

IX. Goku could have easily done the fusion dance with Gohan (Which the Elder Kaioshin remarks as in superior to his fusion).

It's the other way around. Ancient Kaioshin says that merging through the Potara is superior to Fusion.

XI. Of course Gohan's chi donated to the Genki-Dama wouldn't be enough in itself. For one he didn't donate too much of anything since he wasn't even winded. It's clear he only gave a small fraction to give a start to the attack. Plus from an out of universe perspective, Toriyama was really going down to Dragon Ball's roots with the teamwork motto and making an effort to support them theme of the Earthling's supporting themselves in crisis which is initially what Goku tried doing with Goten and Trunks.

Personally I think it'd make no sense, if Gohan didn't give it all he had, so there's another way. Genki-dama doesn't gather one's entire ki, but rather the specific Genki part of ki, which could amount to 1% of one's entire ki, thus not being enough if Pure Buu had ki above that.

Pure Evil Buu or Good Buu?

Conclusion!
There's really nothing in the story that hints at all towards Good Buu ever posing a decent chance of beating Pure Evil Buu, no matter how hard you try to over analyze it. As the aforementioned from the last conclusion stated, this argument for Good Buu winning isn't at all plausible.

I'm dumbfounded by the fact people would seriously try to suggest the opposite. The freaking Narrator said that the Pure Evil Buu got most of the power in the split, yet people are forgetting th - Wait a minute. Viz didn't make a (mostly) literal translation here did they?

Majin Buu or Goku?

--Super Saiyan 3 Goku or Pure Buu:

-Awaiting points from both sides-

Neither one of them had the upperhand on the other, showing they were equally macthed. Of course, if Goku could gather all the Ki he had he'd be able to fire off an attack that should be enough to eradicate Buu akin to what we see in the early Saiyan Arc(Goku and Piccolo having battle powers much lower than Raditz', but being capable of firing attacks reaching dangerously close to it).

[Fox666]

Personally I think it'd make no sense, if Gohan didn't give it all he had, so there's another way. Genki-dama doesn't gather one's entire ki, but rather the specific Genki part of ki, which could amount to 1% of one's entire ki, thus not being enough if Pure Buu had ki above that.

Goten and Trunks didn't transform in Super Saiyan neither merged in Gotenks, why would you assume Gohan was in his "Ultimate Warrior" state?

Besides, Goku told Vegeta that since he just ressurected he wouldn't have his Ki at full yet, and Vegeta tried to fight Pure Boo without transforming in Super Saiyan at all. So it seems impossible for Gohan to have all of his Ki.

[dbgtFO]

Personally I think it'd make no sense, if Gohan didn't give it all he had, so there's another way. Genki-dama doesn't gather one's entire ki, but rather the specific Genki part of ki, which could amount to 1% of one's entire ki, thus not being enough if Pure Buu had ki above that.

Goten and Trunks didn't transform in Super Saiyan neither merged in Gotenks, why would you assume Gohan was in his "Ultimate Warrior" state?

The eyes.

Besides, Goku told Vegeta that since he just ressurected he wouldn't have his Ki at full yet, and Vegeta tried to fight Pure Boo without transforming in Super Saiyan at all. So it seems impossible for Gohan to have all of his Ki.

I forgot about that. This obviously plays a huge part as well, enough so it's possible that one wouldn't need the Genki =/= 100% Ki argument.

[lash]

ressurected he wouldn't have his Ki at full yet, and Vegeta tried to fight Pure Boo without transforming in Super Saiyan at all. So it seems impossible for Gohan to have all of his Ki.

Vegeta did just get his ass handled to him.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The eyes.

Depends on the medium for that argument. I just finished watching that part on my run through DBox 7, and I don't remember Gohan's eyes being "Ultimate" for the donation.

[Perfect]

Like in that other thread, I pointed out how Goku remarks "We did it!", well what did they do exactly? Well inside Buu after realizing they couldn't use the potara anymore Goku wanted to turn Buu back into his fat form, because then they wouldn't need the potara at all.
So it seems like their plan was something like: making Buu weak enough for them to be able to fight him without the need of the potara.(credit goes to jackjack for pointing this out in an old thread)
As you can see this is backed up by Goku's next sentence.

Right, because he's weaker than Evil Buu.

It's the other way around. Ancient Kaioshin says that merging through the Potara is superior to Fusion.

Oh woops, I didn't mean to state that Elder Kaioshin said his fusion was weaker, I meant to say Goku could have been ready to do the fusion dance, but at which point Elder Kaioshin remarks his as superior. Thanks for pointing that out.

Personally I think it'd make no sense, if Gohan didn't give it all he had, so there's another way. Genki-dama doesn't gather one's entire ki, but rather the specific Genki part of ki, which could amount to 1% of one's entire ki, thus not being enough if Pure Buu had ki above that.

Dunno why I didn't think about that, added to the argument.

Besides, Goku told Vegeta that since he just ressurected he wouldn't have his Ki at full yet, and Vegeta tried to fight Pure Boo without transforming in Super Saiyan at all. So it seems impossible for Gohan to have all of his Ki.

Added that as well.

Shouldn't that be more than clear based on their "performance" against Gotenks-absorbed Evil Boo?

By the fact Goku did nothing and seems to look nervous? :p

[dbgtFO]

The eyes.

Depends on the medium for that argument. I just finished watching that part on my run through DBox 7, and Gohan's eyes aren't "Ultimate" once revived.

TC suggested we only use the manga for this compilation, so all my posts are only based on my knowledge of the manga.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

TC suggested we only use the manga for this compilation, so all my posts are only based on my knowledge of the manga.

Which in itself seems pointless, as most of the "Super vs. Kid" debate stems from the anime to begin with. Not that the manga is 100% clear, but it seems to cause an infinitely smaller divide.

[Perfect]

TC suggested we only use the manga for this compilation, so all my posts are only based on my knowledge of the manga.

Which in itself seems pointless, as most of the "Super vs. Kid" debate stems from the anime to begin with. Not that the manga is 100% clear, but it seems to cause an infinitely smaller divide.

If we bothered with the anime, we'd go into endless speculation based on contradictory filler that just creates plot holes within confliction between not only the manga, but other filler the anime spawned in the same continual.

[Ussj Future Trunks]

Personally I think it'd make no sense, if Gohan didn't give it all he had, so there's another way. Genki-dama doesn't gather one's entire ki, but rather the specific Genki part of ki, which could amount to 1% of one's entire ki, thus not being enough if Pure Buu had ki above that.

impossible as kaioshin noted he couldnt teleport dende because he had given all his ki to the genki dama.

[Perfect]

Personally I think it'd make no sense, if Gohan didn't give it all he had, so there's another way. Genki-dama doesn't gather one's entire ki, but rather the specific Genki part of ki, which could amount to 1% of one's entire ki, thus not being enough if Pure Buu had ki above that.

impossible as kaioshin noted he couldnt teleport dende because he had given all his ki to the genki dama.

Kaioshin =/ Gohan

[FNF]

Personally I think it'd make no sense, if Gohan didn't give it all he had, so there's another way. Genki-dama doesn't gather one's entire ki, but rather the specific Genki part of ki, which could amount to 1% of one's entire ki, thus not being enough if Pure Buu had ki above that.

impossible as kaioshin noted he couldnt teleport dende because he had given all his ki to the genki dama.

I know this has already been brought up but I don't think it was explained thoroughly.
This is what Goku says to Vegeta after he was brought back to life;

Goku: “You’ll sta-stall for time?…Yo-you’ve just been restored to life. Your ki still ain’t full, is it?!”

So AT is making a point to say that all people who were 'restored to life' didn't have all their Ki available to them. That basically means that the Genki-dama argument for Pure Buu>Evil Buu is in shreds.
It also makes SSjin3 Goku (full power)>Kid Buu>Mightiest Warrior Gohan etc (post revival) make complete sense.

I don't see anything which suggests Pure Buu>Evil Buu at all and in fact it is possible for Evil Buu to be many, MANY times stronger than Pure Buu.