The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ManyFaces]

200,000? Come on. Give him some more credit than that. I'd say at least 500,000, and I'd imagine Ten is even higher than that. He trains all the time, right?

Now I definitely don't think Kuririn could beat pre-SSJ Goku with 20x Kaio-ken (60,000,000; 50% Freeza). If he was, I think he would of been way more help in the Android arc.

[Kaboom]

General Blue vs. Bora. Blue isn't allowed to use his paralysis ability for this fight. Who wins?

We don't have much on either of them besides both being significantly weaker than Tao Pai Pai. So I'd give it to Bora. Dude deserves some credit.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I'd also give it to Bora. I see him being stronger than General Blue.

As for Krillin's level, I could see him being around a million at the most. I don't know of anything within the story that tells us how strong he is. The main reason why I thought he was that strong is because Gero seemed to think his energy, along with Tien, Gohan and Piccolo's would make him stronger than Vegeta. I thought, "heck, Krillin should be in the high millions, if anything!"

But then I have to consider the fact that this is the same guy who considered Yamcha a good source of power and thought the energy he was stealing from Piccolo was relevant, which he was unaware of--so he might've just been hopeful that all of their energy would've powered him up to a point where he could handle Super Saiyan Vegeta. Oh, well.

[FNF]

I'd also give it to Bora. I see him being stronger than General Blue.

As for Krillin's level, I could see him being around a million at the most. I don't know of anything within the story that tells us how strong he is. The main reason why I thought he was that strong is because Gero seemed to think his energy, along with Tenshinhan, Gohan and Piccolo's would make him stronger than Vegeta. I thought, "heck, Krillin should be in the high millions, if anything!"

But then I have to consider the fact that this is the same guy who considered Yamcha a good source of power and thought the energy he was stealing from Piccolo was relevant, which he was unaware of--so he might've just been hopeful that all of their energy would've powered him up to a point where he could handle Super Saiyan Vegeta. Oh, well.

I think in the android arc even Yamcha is only slightly weaker than Kaioken x10 Goku (vs Freeza) so at that level he could definitely be considered a good source of energy for the Androids.

In a power chain I have;

Piccolo (true power)>>>>Piccolo (resting)>=Tenshinhan/Krillin>Gohan>Yamcha.

[CatouttaHell]

I think in the android arc even Yamcha is only slightly weaker than Kaioken x10 Goku (vs Freeza) so at that level he could definitely be considered a good source of energy for the Androids.

In a power chain I have;

Piccolo (true power)>>>>Piccolo (resting)>=Tenshinhan/Krillin>Gohan>Yamcha.

Yamucha >>> Gohan IMO. Goku sent him off to do the safe task of rescuing Yajirobe and made Yamucha and co go and look for #19 and #20 in the city.

I think Yamucha's declaration of uselessness was mostly him being scared due to almost dying 20 minutes earlier.

[FNF]

Perhaps. However I just find that to hard to explain considering he spent almost 1/2 the time on Kaio's than Tenshinhan did and I doubt he trained as hard as Tenshinhan and Krillin in the 2~ years after Freeza apart from his training on Kaio's.

[In Brightest Day]

It just seems a little ridiculous that Dr. Gero & Android #19 would mistake Yamcha for Son Goku, and yet when Goku actually does show up Gero isn't completely flabbergasted at Goku's base strength. That to me suggests pretty clearly that the Earthlings weren't that far behind the Saiyan's in their base form in the Android arc. I have Goku around the 10 million mark, and Yamcha probably pushing about 2 million. So, that's still a pretty big gap, but they aren't light years from each other or anything.

As far as justifying their huge boosts in power, I just go with Tien and Yamcha getting massive gains from their training with King Kai and Krillin and Gohan got an even bigger boost than those two from Namek. Perhaps they got themselves to about the 500,000 mark, trained themselves into the low millions in the three years given, but kind of plateaued at that point and struggled to get much stronger after that. Chaozu obviously lagged behind pretty badly.


Let me clarify, I'm not just 'fan-wanking' the Human's for the sake of it. IMO, the implications given by Gero in the Manga were pretty clear. Just my opinion.

[dbgtFO]

It just seems a little ridiculous that Dr. Gero & Android #19 would mistake Yamcha for Son Goku, and yet when Goku actually does show up Gero isn't completely flabbergasted at Goku's base strength. That to me suggests pretty clearly that the Earthlings weren't that far behind the Saiyan's in their base form in the Android arc.

I think, when you consider the fact, that they usually walk around greatly suppressed until they actually fight, Yamcha being initially mistaken as Goku really doesn't mean more than just being much stronger than the norm.

[In Brightest Day]

It also seems a little farfetched to me that Goku would still be suppressed just when he is about to go into battle. Again, Gero would have been shocked at Goku's power if he was really that much more powerful than they had initially thought, and it would seem Yamcha is in the same ballpark as that.

[dbgtFO]

Goku was suppressed before he went Super Saiyan. It was noted by Yamcha and Co. that they couldn't find the others, as long as they were suppressing their ki by virtue of not fighting.

[Rocketman]

Being mistaken for Goku only means Yamcha was over 8,000. At 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000, he's equally useless, so why give him a huge powerup from MOUNTAIN TRAINING?

[jjgp1112]

Dr. Gero said that he figured Goku peaked with the fight against the Saiyans and didn't predict him getting significantly stronger than that. So yeah, of course when he sees someone as weak as Yamcha, he just assumes it's Goku because he's not that much stronger than he was at the point he based his calculations off of.

[In Brightest Day]

Being mistaken for Goku only means Yamcha was over 8,000. At 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000, he's equally useless, so why give him a huge powerup from MOUNTAIN TRAINING?

Because Gero and Android #19 were prepared for power levels that could arguably take on Frieza. They anticipated how powerful Goku would be after his time on Namek, confused Yamcha with Goku and then wasn't at all surprised by Goku and Vegeta's base power.

In my opinion, Tenshinhan and Yamcha got the bulk of their power up from training with King Kai, and Kuririn from Guru. So, the 'Mountain training' tag doesn't exactly apply here.

Dr. Gero said that he figured Goku peaked with the fight against the Saiyans and didn't predict him getting significantly stronger than that. So yeah, of course when he sees someone as weak as Yamcha, he just assumes it's Goku because he's not that much stronger than he was at the point he based his calculations off of.

Gero and #19 were prepared for power levels far beyond what they saw in the Saiyan arc. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

[dbgtFO]

Gero and #19 were prepared for power levels far beyond what they saw in the Saiyan arc. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Uh, no.

There was no need. By the battle with Vegeta and co., we had already completely grasped your power and techniques. We calculated that no matter how much you improved afterwards, considering your age, you wouldn’t have any increases as enormous as you had before…

[FNF]

Goku was suppressed before he went Super Saiyan. It was noted by Yamcha and Co. that they couldn't find the others, as long as they were suppressing their ki by virtue of not fighting.

Goku tried to attack 20 while in base. Do you think he was still suppressed then?
The only Z fighter who was suppressed in their 1st confrontation with the Androids was Piccolo.

I think it's perfectly plausible for Tenshinhan and Krillin to be above the base Saiyans.
It was noted that Goku was exerting himself when he was flying to fight the Androids and even though no power decrease had been noted, Tenshinhan could easily keep up with him.

@Rocket,
No.20: “A human with an unusually high energy rating is heading this way…Is the search system malfunctioning?”
No.19: “It’s not a malfunction, No.20. I’m noting the same energy.”
No.20: “It greatly surpasses human data…”
No.19: “We’ve found him already…Son Goku.”

It surpasses all power levels collected. That could easily mean Yamcha>>>>Oozaru Vegeta at the most.

[Fox666]

What does "human data" means? Apparently this does not apply to Goku

That line only means No.19 and 20 would never expect for Goku and the others be on that island... keep in mind that Yamcha appearance is very similar to Goku, with black hair and the same clothes

[In Brightest Day]

Gero and #19 were prepared for power levels far beyond what they saw in the Saiyan arc. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Uh, no.

There was no need. By the battle with Vegeta and co., we had already completely grasped your power and techniques. We calculated that no matter how much you improved afterwards, considering your age, you wouldn’t have any increases as enormous as you had before…

We know that they were prepared for power far beyond the Saiyan arc because they were fighting against Super Saiyan's. Use some common sense, dude.

[dbgtFO]

Goku tried to attack 20 while in base. Do you think he was still suppressed then?

It's a quick surge of power, so I doubt it was registered similar to what Goku did vs. the Ginyu Force. That's just opinion though.

It was noted that Goku was exerting himself when he was flying to fight the Androids and even though no power decrease had been noted, Tenshinhan could easily keep up with him.

Him flying as fast as Goku or w/e really doesn't mean much otherwise he should be on par with Kamiccolo too.

That could easily mean Yamcha>>>>Oozaru Vegeta at the most.

It surpasses human data, but Oozaru Vegeta isn't human.

We know that they were prepared for power far beyond the Saiyan arc because they were fighting against Super Saiyan's. Use some common sense, dude.

Because Gero knew about Super Saiyans?
Stick to facts dude.
Is that what I'm supposed to say?

[Fox666]

Gero and #19 were prepared for power levels far beyond what they saw in the Saiyan arc. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Uh, no.

There was no need. By the battle with Vegeta and co., we had already completely grasped your power and techniques. We calculated that no matter how much you improved afterwards, considering your age, you wouldn’t have any increases as enormous as you had before…

We know that they were prepared for power far beyond the Saiyan arc because they were fighting against Super Saiyan's. Use some common sense, dude.

That's incorrect. Dr. Gero developed androids that far surpass the strength of Goku and the others before they traveled to Namek, however he didn't expected to use that kind power.

Based on Dr. Gero line which dbgtFO posted, he and No.19 never meet someone (including Yamcha) who was beyond the power Goku or Vegeta had during their battle.

Of course Yamcha probably was suppressing his power, so this is not conclusive.

[Kaboom]

I think too much is being read into the line about Yamcha. "Surpasses human data" just means "surpasses human data," i.e. more powerful than any normal human. That would just as easily apply to Yamcha in the Saiyan arc as well as during the Androids arc. It doesn't mean much beyond "there's someone powerful nearby."