The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Fox666]

Yes, that line doesn't tell us anything, expect that Yamcha is stronger than the average citizen of that city.

Like I pointed before, Yamcha appearance is similar to Goku, so that's why they tought it was Goku.

[Kaboom]

Like I pointed before, Yamcha appearance is similar to Goku, so that's why they tought it was Goku.

They assumed it was Goku before Yamcha was in "visual range." Once he was and they had a good look at him (and thus had more to go by than power reading estimations), they realized it wasn't Goku.

[Rocketman]

The most powerful human they had record of was Vegeta at 18,000, or possibly Goku's Kaioken hitting near 30,000.

[In Brightest Day]

Yes, that line doesn't tell us anything, expect that Yamcha is stronger than the average citizen of that city.

Like I pointed before, Yamcha appearance is similar to Goku, so that's why they tought it was Goku.

Yeah, frankly, you can't say that as if it's completely conclusive.

If the Androids really believed that Goku wouldn't get stronger after the Saiyan arc, then the power they gave to themselves was ridiculously excessive and they would have been absolutely shocked at the power Goku showed in the city. That's a statement just being blatantly contradicted there.

[Kaboom]

What better way to be prepared for anything (sans unexpected riduclously accelerated hax power growth and Super Saiyan transformations, of course) than to set your power at what should be total overkill?

Goku's expected power growth: Up to 100,000
Android 19 and 20's power: Several tens of millions, at least.
Result: Dead Goku.

[dbgtFO]

Yeah, frankly, you can't say that as if it's completely conclusive.

If the Androids really believed that Goku wouldn't get stronger after the Saiyan arc, then the power they gave to themselves was ridiculously excessive and they would have been absolutely shocked at the power Goku showed in the city. That's a statement just being blatantly contradicted there.

What statement is blatantly contradicted?
What power did Goku show in the city?

And yes they are overpowered to the point of absurdity compared to what they expected from Goku, but so what?
There's no kill like overkill afterall.

[In Brightest Day]

Yeah, frankly, you can't say that as if it's completely conclusive.

If the Androids really believed that Goku wouldn't get stronger after the Saiyan arc, then the power they gave to themselves was ridiculously excessive and they would have been absolutely shocked at the power Goku showed in the city. That's a statement just being blatantly contradicted there.

What statement is blatantly contradicted?
What power did Goku show in the city?

And yes they are overpowered to the point of absurdity compared to what they expected from Goku, but so what?
There's no kill like overkill afterall.

Gero's "there was no need to follow you on Namek" spheal. If Goku is capable of knocking Gero back with a punch, then it's pretty clear that he was exhibiting power far beyond 100,000. And Gero wasn't at all surprised by that, and even then theirs no way Goku's going to hit Vegeta and Piccolo's supposed murderers with an attack that wouldn't even hurt Captain Ginyu. That's why it's a contradicted statement.

At the same time, I agree the Android's went overkill. Using power that can take on Super Saiyan's to kill people with power that arguably isn't even above 10 million is definitely overkill.

[FNF]

It's a quick surge of power, so I doubt it was registered similar to what Goku did vs. the Ginyu Force. That's just opinion though.

If that's the case then shouldn't that go for everyone? So Yamcha's resting Ki should be > Kaioken x4 Goku at the least and that means he could potentially be many, MANY times stronger than that.

Him flying as fast as Goku or w/e really doesn't mean much otherwise he should be on par with Kamiccolo too.

But it was never implied that Piccolo was flying at full force. Goku was blatantly exerting himself.

It surpasses human data, but Oozaru Vegeta isn't human.

It's debatable that he included all power levels he had sensed in the Saiyan fight in that statement.

[Fox666]

If Goku is capable of knocking Gero back with a punch, then it's pretty clear that he was exhibiting power far beyond 100,000.

Goku took Dr. Gero by surprise (kind of) since he was spinning his head to destroy the surrounding area.

And frankly I don't think Dr. Gero could judge Goku's power based on a punch, he lacks any experience in combat and probably cannot feel pain or cold (or at least not like a normal person would).

[In Brightest Day]

Like I pointed before, Yamcha appearance is similar to Goku, so that's why they tought it was Goku.

They assumed it was Goku before Yamcha was in "visual range." Once he was and they had a good look at him (and thus had more to go by than power reading estimations), they realized it wasn't Goku.

Actually no, Yamcha hadn't even come around the corner when #19 made the assessment that "Goku" was coming.

Goku took Dr. Gero by surprise (kind of) since he was spinning his head to destroy the surrounding area.

And frankly I don't think Dr. Gero could judge Goku's power based on a punch, he lacks any experience in combat and probably cannot feel pain or cold (or at least not like a normal person would).

True, but he can quite easily sense the power that came from the punch itself.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Actually no, Yamcha hadn't even come around the corner when #19 made the assessment that "Goku" was coming.

Um, isn't that what Kaboom's basically saying?

[Kaboom]

Actually no, Yamcha hadn't even come around the corner when #19 made the assessment that "Goku" was coming.

Um, isn't that what Kaboom's basically saying?

Yeah, pretty much.

They sense the power -> "Hey, someone strong; it must be Goku."
They see the person -> "Oh, no, it's just Yamcha."

[In Brightest Day]

Actually no, Yamcha hadn't even come around the corner when #19 made the assessment that "Goku" was coming.

Um, isn't that what Kaboom's basically saying?

Yeah, pretty much.

They sense the power -> "Hey, someone strong; it must be Goku."
They see the person -> "Oh, no, it's just Yamcha."

If you want to see it that way that's fine, but I think someone could quite as easily interpret that as Gero & #19 only being able to tell the difference between Goku and Yamcha was by actually looking at Yamcha on closer inspection.

I still don't think theirs nearly enough proof to definitively say that the humans didn't reach a million by the Android arc.

[dbgtFO]

Gero's "there was no need to follow you on Namek" spheal. If Goku is capable of knocking Gero back with a punch, then it's pretty clear that he was exhibiting power far beyond 100,000. And Gero wasn't at all surprised by that, and even then theirs no way Goku's going to hit Vegeta and Piccolo's supposed murderers with an attack that wouldn't even hurt Captain Ginyu. That's why it's a contradicted statement.

What do you mean with your first sentence? That Gero actually did follow Goku on Namek?
I personally have no reason to consider his statements blatantly contradicted. It seemingly doesn't fly with your interpretation, I take it?

Like I said to FNF, I just see it as the same deal as Goku vs. the Ginyus. A quick surge of power not being registered by scouters.

If that's the case then shouldn't that go for everyone? So Yamcha's resting Ki should be > Kaioken x4 Goku at the least and that means he could potentially be many, MANY times stronger than that.

I have no problem with Yamcha greatly surpassing kk 4 Goku. He could be at 100,000, which could be considered greatly surpassing 32,000, since it's over 3 times greater.

But it was never implied that Piccolo was flying at full force. Goku was blatantly exerting himself.

Well that was Goku's heart virus kicking in. All it shows is Goku using enough power for the virus to have a noticeable effect on him.

It's debatable that he included all power levels he had sensed in the Saiyan fight in that statement.

You'd think "human data" wouldn't include data from non humans.

[FNF]

I have no problem with Yamcha greatly surpassing kk 4 Goku. He could be at 100,000, which could be considered greatly surpassing 32,000, since it's over 3 times greater.

But would a resting Ki of even 100,000 even be considered a good source of energy for SSjin tier opponents? I doubt it.

Well that was Goku's heart virus kicking in. All it shows is Goku using enough power for the virus to have a noticeable effect on him.

I never doubted that the heart virus was involved but it just shows you how much Goku was exerting himself in base. The only comparable situation is after Goku went SSjin. It's more than possible that Goku was going at full force in base.

You'd think "human data" wouldn't include data from non humans.

Well, the statement's coming from an Android who is himself not regarded as human.

Has there ever been an instance when a 'non human' has spoken to/about another 'non human' and spoke down to them as if they were 'mere human'?

I'm just curious.

[dbgtFO]

But would a resting Ki of even 100,000 even be considered a good source of energy for SSjin tier opponents? I doubt it.

When Dr. Gero absorbed Yamcha's ki, he had no clue he was going to be facing SSJ like opponents.
At most, he could be expecting a Goku, who by his calculations shouldn't have gotten extreme gains, like he did in the Saiyan Arc.

Well, the statement's coming from an Android who is himself not regarded as human.

Yes. Point being?

Has there ever been an instance when a 'non human' has spoken to/about another 'non human' and spoke down to them as if they were 'mere human'?

Don't know. But it isn't relevant right?

[FNF]

When Dr. Gero absorbed Yamcha's ki, he had no clue he was going to be facing SSJ like opponents.

At most, he could be expecting a Goku, who by his calculations shouldn't have gotten extreme gains, like he did in the Saiyan Arc.

The point is that would he consider 100,000 a big boost in power?
Like if Yamcha's energy wasn't of much use they could have just one shotted him and get it over with but 20 makes a point that he would be a good source.

Yes. Point being?

Don't know. But it isn't relevant right?

My point is what if 20 considered himself so superior that all lower creatures were simply 'human'? Just food for thought.

[dbgtFO]

The point is that would he consider 100,000 a big boost in power?

He did?

Like if Yamcha's energy wasn't of much use they could have just one shotted him and get it over with but 20 makes a point that he would be a good source.

I don't see the problem. Yamcha's power greatly exceeds that of ordinary Earthlings, so it can very obviously be deemed of use compared to them. Unlike #17 and #18, #19 and #20 suffer from energy depletion, so it makes sense Yamcha's power is useful for them, if they for example use up 5000 battle power units a day.

My point is what if 20 considered himself so superior that all lower creatures were simply 'human'? Just food for thought.

Maybe, but to my recollection he doesn't suggest this, so I'm still just going with my argument.

[FNF]

He did?
I don't see the problem. Yamcha's power greatly exceeds that of ordinary Earthlings, so it can very obviously be deemed of use compared to them. Unlike #17 and #18, #19 and #20 suffer from energy depletion, so it makes sense Yamcha's power is useful for them, if they for example use up 5000 battle power units a day.

From the looks of it he did;
No.20: “At any rate, we’ll be able to obtain a large amount of energy.”
It suggests Yamcha's energy could actually make a significant difference imo.

For example lets say 20 has a power level of 200,000,000~. IMO a resting Ki of 10,000,000~ would be classified as a 'good' source to 20 if they were intending to fight Goku who they probably assumed was much, MUCH stronger.

[dbgtFO]

From the looks of it he did;
No.20: “At any rate, we’ll be able to obtain a large amount of energy.”
It suggests Yamcha's energy could actually make a significant difference imo.

I see it differently. He doesn't say how it's going to grant him a big increase in power or anything, he's just stating the obvious and leaves it at that.