IMO the main villain of a movie is always stronger than the main villain of the previous movie, so even if my mulipliers were fact Tullece would still lose horribly.Nineteen wrote:While we're on the tangent that Kaboom started with Tullece:
Tullece (2nd Fruit) vs. Lord Slug (Young)
Tullece can only win if he uses Ozaru.Nineteen wrote:While we're on the tangent that Kaboom started with Tullece:
Tullece (2nd Fruit) vs. Lord Slug (Young)
For my DBZ Movie 3 battle power list, I arbitrarily plonked Tullece (2nd Fruit) at 650,000, boosted up from 400,000 (1st Fruit). So, without Ozaru, Tullece would be demolished. However, if he did use Ozaru, boosting his power up to 6,500,000, then I think Freeza would be forced to either attempt to slice off his tail, or use a higher percentage of his full power to defeat him.Kaboom wrote:Tullece (2nd Fruit) vs True-Form Freeza
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
You mean in a serious, all-out fight? Goku gets massacred. Mister Boo would still require Super Saiyan 2 to beat back in the day, and even ten years of mere Earth-level training isn't going to get Goku magically 100x stronger so he could beat him in just his base form.Ussj Future Trunks wrote:End of Z Base Goku vs Good Boo
That's not true.Ussj Future Trunks wrote:goku trains much more efficiently
Yes it is.That's not true.
No, unlocking SS2 while Gohan let his power fall did that.Ussj Future Trunks wrote:Besides just 7 years earth grav training raised vegeta from cell jr level to above ssj2 gohan.
Goku invented a better way to train that time. Not in any other instance later. Vegeta's training after that is at the very least as efficient as Goku's. Plus, Vegeta trains harder, so Goku on Earth conditions is kind of screwed.Michsi wrote:Yes it is.That's not true.
The Cell Saga proves it.
Vegeta more or less admits it.
Since I already stated long ago that I don't think base saiyans are that strong, Mister Buu wins. Easily.
He did it once, it's ample proof he can do it again.Goku invented a better way to train that time. Not in any other instance later. Vegeta's training after that is at the very least as efficient as Goku's. Plus, Vegeta trains harder, so Goku on Earth conditions is kind of screwed.
He was speaking about Oob.Ussj Future Trunks wrote:Really? what about how goku said to mr satan that someone might win beside himself and boo?
No.Michsi wrote:He did it once, it's ample proof he can do it again.
Oh so near-death power-ups matter? No.Goku is the one that caught up to Vegeta (with Vegeta being the one who got a head start in power the moment he was born) then surpassed him and then reached SSJ before him and then went on to leave him in the dust power wise.
It's implied that Vegeta had surpassed Goku at that moment. There wouldn't be any reason to imply such thing if it wasn't true.The only time Vegeta managed to possibly surpass Goku, was in the android saga, but it was by such a small margin that it couldn't even be stated as a certain thing.
I'll just repeat myself: on Earth's conditions Goku is kind of screwed. I can only see him having efficient training with Oob, since Oob is a really good sparing partner.If Goku had stayed on Earth, he would have still been above Vegeta in strength because even if Vegeta trains harder, training smart and efficient > training long and hard.
Vegeta ended up 2nd to Goku, so Goku's better. How does that prove that Goku's training is more efficient (if they were to train under same conditions, ofc)?And Vegeta himself admits Goku is better than him so I don't see how that is debatable.
Yes. Since he also did on his way to namek.No.
I remember a trip to namek where he spent the entire time training that made the difference. And Vegeta got just as much trough near-death power ups. Actually,I think he had more near death power ups than Goku...Oh so near-death power-ups matter? No.
It's implied , not stated , so it isn't a fact. And my point was that since it expressed uncertainty it means that even if he did surpass Goku, the difference was so small they couldn't be sure. If the author wanted the readers to know for sure Vegeta had surpassed Goku at that point, he would have made things clearer. So the only time Vegeta surpassed Goku , it was with a small difference. When Goku surpassed Vegeta, he does so by a good deal more.It's implied that Vegeta had surpassed Goku at that moment. There wouldn't be any reason to imply such thing if it wasn't true.
No, he isn't. 10 years later, with "earth conditions", Goku is still stronger than Vegeta and I bet probably by a good deal still.I'll just repeat myself: on Earth's conditions Goku is kind of screwed. I can only see him having efficient training with Oob, since Oob is a really good sparing partner.
I don't understand the logic here. Goku is stronger and better BECAUSE his training is more efficient. They already trained once under the same conditions and Goku surpassed him by so much Vegeta couldn't catch with one more additional year. That is the difference between how much more efficient Goku's training was.Vegeta ended up 2nd to Goku, so Goku's better. How does that prove that Goku's training is more efficient (if they were to train under same conditions, ofc)?
Training himself to near-death, then healing with the senzu. The narrator outright says he's using the zenkais.Michsi wrote:I remember a trip to namek where he spent the entire time training
As long as you also remember that Goku was assisted by Norht Kaio who could increase his weights to whatever amount was needed.Michsi wrote: And you keep bringing up eath conditions. Vegeta didn't have eart conditions either. He had a custom made training room that allowed him to change his training conditions however he wanted. We have no proof whatsoever that Goku had special or harder conditions. The only thing he had was lack of fatique in the afterlife.
Yes I know, I didn't forget that. The same type of training Vegeta had. That's why I said no "special or harder conditon" because the increased gravity or added weigths method had been used by all before.As long as you also remember that Goku was assisted by Norht Kaio who could increase his weights to whatever amount was needed.
If I recall, that was one incident, when he used 100G for the first time. Also I do believe that trainig until near death power up is a little more beneficial than getting beaten near to death pwoer up.Training himself to near-death, then healing with the senzu. The narrator outright says he's using the zenkais.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Nope:Michsi wrote:If I recall, that was one incident, when he used 100G for the first time.Training himself to near-death, then healing with the senzu. The narrator outright says he's using the zenkais.
He did it 4 times.Chapter: 270 (DBZ 76), P8.3-4
Context: Narrator commenting on Goku’s increasing strength.
Narrator: “Goku had continued this insane pattern of pushing his body and ki to the brink of death, then refreshing himself again by eating a senzu. The 7 senzu he received from Lord Karin have already fallen to only 3…However, though this training is outrageous, perhaps Goku has somehow realized the Saiyan characteristic of their strength increasing when they overcome death…”
