GT or Kai - Which is bigger dissapointment?

[Krycek7o2]

Kai. It was the anime equivalent of seeing your favorite 80's band reunite and tour. It's the songs you love, maybe with some slight changes in the arrangement and a member being replaced, but it just doesn't feel right. The vocalist can't hit the notes he used to, the guitarist can't play as well because of his alcohol problem, and the (new) bass player is just sorta on auto-pilot and can't sing the backing harmonies to save his ass.

...so yeah, Kai was basically the Van Halen reunion tour of 07-08. ;p

GT, on the other hand was like the album said band did in the 80's that was the weakest in their catalog, but you still enjoyed a song or two.

Perfect, just perfect. This is exactly what Kai felt like. And why it was such a disappointment.

[Shiyonasan]

Kai. It was the anime equivalent of seeing your favorite 80's band reunite and tour. It's the songs you love, maybe with some slight changes in the arrangement and a member being replaced, but it just doesn't feel right. The vocalist can't hit the notes he used to, the guitarist can't play as well because of his alcohol problem, and the (new) bass player is just sorta on auto-pilot and can't sing the backing harmonies to save his ass.

...so yeah, Kai was basically the Van Halen reunion tour of 07-08. ;p

GT, on the other hand was like the album said band did in the 80's that was the weakest in their catalog, but you still enjoyed a song or two.

Great analogy, and basically my thoughts.

For me, I thought Kai was the bigger disappointment because of the music scandal and scene touch-ups. Plus, it just didn't sit well with me to watch something that I have already watched, except trimmed down and sped up to follow the manga closer.

It's kind of like how the guys on the podcast feel about the animanga. If you want to watch an anime that is closer scene-wise to the manga, then you might as well just buy the manga and read the manga. If the filler really bothers you that much in Z, then just fast-forward through the scenes and skip the episodes you don't want to watch.

The only things I really liked about Kai was the opening and ending songs and the actual new animations that accompanied them, and a few of the BGM. The FUNi dub is also okay as well.

GT is, despite its plot holes, actually an enjoyable series to me. Sure, it might be boring at parts, but you've got to admit it has a great musical score at least (Japanese version).

[Rukura]

Kai. GT was new, Kai is Z (except sliced up and incomplete).

Every other argument for GT seems to be "I don't like GT."

Having watched Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood and the new footage in Ultimate Tenkaichi, I'm fully against the idea of Kai.

[Son Satan]

Purely from an 'American standpoint', Kai was anything but disappointing: it fixed almost everything that was wrong with the Z dub, and has allowed the English dub to have a number of standout moments in my mind. GT, while it had a better dub than both DB and DBZ, didn't have that going for it's acting.

Now, from a franchise direction, Kai was the disappointment no one asked for. Toei has no excuses, truly, for the lazy filler-cutting and badly (for the most part) redrawn scenes.The Yamamoto score made it seem at least semi-new, but with the scandal and Kikuchi replacement, everything got worse as the music was placed generally worse than Yamamoto's was. The Japanese cast is rusty, and there's no denying that. But it's expected when they've been doing the series for over 20 years. If the show had been reanimated like it should've been (I'm imagining FMA: Brotherhood quality revisitng here) then even the Japanese cast's rusted ability wouldn't have been the detractor it is; the way Kai was done, for the Japanese version, there's few pros. Quite a way to spend an anniversary, no?
GT, on the other hand, and say what you will about it, wasn't nearly as bad. The story was at least new, even if it wasn't "great", the animation was usually very good, and because GT is all anime-exclusive, there's no instances of Toei being genuinely lazy when it comes to pacing, etc. For GT, it seemed like Toei really did try to put out a quality product, one that they could be proud of (sadly, the way the writing and tone panned out, this isn't the case as much), and one thagt was far better executed than Kai.

So, Kai was a bigger disappointment for me than GT.
(See also: MajinVejitaXV's post)

[PuppetDoctor]

Purely from an 'American standpoint', Kai was anything but disappointing: it fixed almost everything that was wrong with the Z dub, and has allowed the English dub to have a number of standout moments in my mind. GT, while it had a better dub than both DB and DBZ, didn't have that going for it's acting.

Now, from a franchise direction, Kai was the disappointment no one asked for. Toei has no excuses, truly, for the lazy filler-cutting and badly (for the most part) redrawn scenes.The Yamamoto score made it seem at least semi-new, but with the scandal and Kikuchi replacement, everything got worse as the music was placed generally worse than Yamamoto's was. The Japanese cast is rusty, and there's no denying that. But it's expected when they've been doing the series for over 20 years. If the show had been reanimated like it should've been (I'm imagining FMA: Brotherhood quality revisitng here) then even the Japanese cast's rusted ability wouldn't have been the detractor it is; the way Kai was done, for the Japanese version, there's few pros. Quite a way to spend an anniversary, no?
GT, on the other hand, and say what you will about it, wasn't nearly as bad. The story was at least new, even if it wasn't "great", the animation was usually very good, and because GT is all anime-exclusive, there's no instances of Toei being genuinely lazy when it comes to pacing, etc. For GT, it seemed like Toei really did try to put out a quality product, one that they could be proud of (sadly, the way the writing and tone panned out, this isn't the case as much), and one thagt was far better executed than Kai.

So, Kai was a bigger disappointment for me than GT.
(See also: MajinVejitaXV's post)

That is exactly how I feel. I just couldn't find the right way to sum up my thoughts on both of the series.

I never was fond of the Yamamoto score with the terrible placement sometimes and the repetitive tracks but at least it made Kai feel somewhat fresh. Now with his music being ripped out of the series I can never see myself going back to Kai once it is done airing on Nicktoons. At least with GT I will watch it again with the GT Review of Awesomeness and GT gave Dragon Ball in my opinion a better ending.

[Rocketman]

Sounds like a lot of cryin' to me.

"OH GOD I DIDN'T GET NEEEW ANIMATION i guess i'll just sit here as goku and freeza gaze lovingly into each others' eyes for the third straight hour because if i can't get everything then i won't get anything"

[Cipher]

Sounds like a lot of cryin' to me.

"OH GOD I DIDN'T GET NEEEW ANIMATION i guess i'll just sit here as goku and freeza gaze lovingly into each others' eyes for the third straight hour because if i can't get everything then i won't get anything"

Being an alternative to something unwatchable doesn't excuse being half-assed and sloppy. At the end of the day, I guess I'd rather sit through Kai's Namek arc than Z's (doesn't apply to the other portions of the series), but it's still awkward. It gets around the main problem of the original (the slow-as-shit pacing), but introduces a host of new ones as well. Problems that could have been avoided by just doing what it intended and actually providing a new production of the series.

[TripleRach]

Sounds like a lot of cryin' to me.

"OH GOD I DIDN'T GET NEEEW ANIMATION i guess i'll just sit here as goku and freeza gaze lovingly into each others' eyes for the third straight hour because if i can't get everything then i won't get anything"

People can cry if they want to.

But they can't have their opinions undermined, so chill out.

[Silver Sinspawn]

Oh, Kai for sure. GT provided us with new storylines that took us back to what Dragon Ball was about: Adventure.
No, not punching the shit out of people. ADVENTURE.

Kai was just redrawing it the story, but leaving a lot out, in my opinion. It lacks those character development filler scenes. Plus, GT gave us an insight into the tuffles, and Saiyans. Not to mention, it gives us childlike Goku, not the lame DBZ Goku. I'm(H)O, GT was better than Z. Plus, GT never in ANY dub, had blue Popo.

[Rocketman]

Oh, Kai for sure. GT provided us with new storylines that took us back to what Dragon Ball was about: Adventure.
No, not punching the shit out of people. ADVENTURE.

I was unaware the Pilaf arc constituted the entirety of Dragonball.

Of course, we'll just forget that it was the 21st Budokai and its punching the shit out of people that made DB a success, not the one and only adventure arc in the entire series.

[Silver Sinspawn]

... Red ribbon arc, King Piccolo arc, all involved some sort of questing. It was the better half of Dragon Ball, too. They weren't just like "Lets teleport and get these Dragon Balls", it wasn't that simple

[Perfect]

... Red ribbon arc, King Piccolo arc, all involved some sort of questing. It was the better half of Dragon Ball, too. They weren't just like "Lets teleport and get these Dragon Balls", it wasn't that simple

Neither of those were adventure arcs by any means.

[Silver Sinspawn]

No, but they were go-after-the-dragon-balls-and-shit arcs. They still maintain a quest feel, the characters aren't locked to one desolate wasteland, then maybe another desolate wasteland.

[DemonRin]

Personally, I think anyone who can say they were "Disappointed" in Kai didn't understand what Kai was going to be. Nobody on the end of Kai's production EVER said "We're redrawing everything from the ground up".

It was ALWAYS touted as the "Manga Cut" of DBZ. An Edit.

The pacing is one of the things I absolutely can't stand about Z. I love it, don't get me wrong, but watching Son and Freeza stare at each other for episodes at a time was just getting boring to me. Add that to the fact that the audio is stereo and clear and the spectacular new dub, it all just adds up. Kai feels fresh and really reinvigorated my DB spark, I now prefer it to Z in normal viewing.

GT on the other hand, was just a let down from jump street. There were plotholes, it was eh, there was lots I didn't like in GT compared to the tons I like in Kai.

[Michsi]

For me , definetly GT. Despite having seen DBZ a number of times, I could still watch Kai to the end. I have yet to watch all of GT even once.

I'm one of the few who was happy that they didn't reanimate the whole thing, because I don't really like the new style DB is drawn in and the animation quality I see comming from Toei now-a-days doesn't really impress me.

The soundtrack fiasco was dissapointing though.

I have already stated why I don't like GT.

[ManyFaces]

I think GT would be a bigger disappointment if I watched it now, but I've long since accepted the series for what is, so I'ma have to say Kai is the bigger disappointment.

I don't understand what is so hard about scrapping all filler (save some extended fight scenes here and there), keeping everything from manga, and doing this for the entire series. And then there's the music scandal. On top of that, I have to deal with FUNi still using F-r-i-e-z-a.

As far as the supposed restored animation goes, I can't say I hate it. I've never watched a Kai episode, but from what I've seen, they don't look all too bad. To be honest, I'm glad they didn't re-animate the series. I don't particular like computer animation.

I was actually going to put aside all of this and pick up the BD Kai season one set, but noooo. FUNi' can't be bothered to change the score back to Kiuchi, so I won't bother pickin' it up.

[coola]

I understand, that Kai was supposed to be DBZ Manga cut version ever since it was announced, but unfortunately, it even failed on that, by not only cut stuff from manga, in favor of filler, but also not include Buu saga, like i said, i dont call Kai a total garbage, but lost chance, of retelling entire DB/DBZ story, in beautiful animation

[Piccolo Daimao]

... Red ribbon arc, King Piccolo arc, all involved some sort of questing. It was the better half of Dragon Ball, too. They weren't just like "Lets teleport and get these Dragon Balls", it wasn't that simple

Neither of those were adventure arcs by any means.

The Piccolo Daimao arc perhaps wasn't, but I agree with him in that the Red Ribbon Army arc was, and I don't know how anyone can say that it's not. It's a clear adventure of Goku and the Red Ribbon Army trying to screw each other to get the Dragon Balls for themselves; a cat-and-mouse game intertwined with battles.

The Freeza arc, to some extent, had adventure elements early on too. Gohan and Kuririn, Vegeta, and Freeza were all flitting back-and-forth, again in a cat-and-mouse game (with Gohan and Kuririn being mainly in the "mouse" role), to try and get the Dragon Balls.

[Pokewhiz7]

Lower quality Japanese voice acting, censorship, music scandal, poor placement of songs in replacement score, missing final story arc, Kai without a doubt. But I have one main reason.
Why was Toei so FUCKING cheap that they couldn't redo the whole thing? I would much rather have the entire show looking like Dragon Soul than just being teased with Dragon Soul and then getting filtered Z footage. There wouldn't be any of this 16:9/4:3 bullshit, conflicting redrawn animation, left-in filler such as Gregory, etc. For me, that would be the DEFINITIVE Dragon Ball Z experience. Hell, we could probably get through the show even faster than they we did now. Alas, Toei.

[Krycek7o2]

Lower quality Japanese voice acting, censorship, music scandal, poor placement of songs in replacement score, missing final story arc, Kai without a doubt. But I have one main reason.
Why was Toei so FUCKING cheap that they couldn't redo the whole thing? I would much rather have the entire show looking like Dragon Soul than just being teased with Dragon Soul and then getting filtered Z footage. There wouldn't be any of this 16:9/4:3 bullshit, conflicting redrawn animation, left-in filler such as Gregory, etc. For me, that would be the DEFINITIVE Dragon Ball Z experience. Hell, we could probably get through the show even faster than they we did now. Alas, Toei.

It's mostly because they don't give a fuck about the fans except the cash they bring in. It's as simple as it gets. Many feel entitled to things, but business execs just see us fans as money.