GT or Kai - Which is bigger dissapointment?

[penguintruth]

Kai comes along and largely removes DBZ's biggest problem (padding/filler) and we still complain.

The English dub of it also removed DBZ's English versions' problems.

Sure, in some ways Kai is disappointing, but it's not GT disappointing. Not even close.

Though GT's biggest problem was it was so unnecessary.

[Cipher]

Kai comes along and largely removes DBZ's biggest problem (padding/filler) and we still complain.

Because it didn't do it gracefully. And frankly, I'm not sure there is a graceful way to re-edit an old show like that and have it play well.

Again, it probably is a more tolerable watch than certain portions of Z. But being better than unwatchable doesn't mean we should excuse its errors. It doesn't screech to a grinding halt in parts like Z does, but it's still a far more awkward watch than any new series designed around a normal pacing. Why should it not have to live up to those standards?

I'm not critiquing you for preferring Kai to GT. That's fine. But this rhetoric of "It did something better/it's technically more watchable, so where do we get off complaining?" just astounds me.

Though GT's biggest problem was it was so unnecessary.

Realizing of course that this complaint can, has been, and will forever be thrown at both products, right?

[Rocketman]

I don't mind people complaining, what throws me is them going back to shitty filler and staredowns because of something piddly like the music.

[Cipher]

I don't mind people complaining, what throws me is them going back to shitty filler and staredowns because of something piddly like the music.

The music (whether Yamamoto's generic score or the poor Kikuchi track placement) is the least of Kai's problems.

For its positives, the cut material makes it more watchable in certain parts (though, I'd argue, not all of them) than Z, and the restoration looks great. But, regardless of how it compares to Z in watchability, its cut and paste approach has left it with a lot of odd timing and some editing flubs, all of which combine for a far more awkward experience than any show actually produced with this pacing in mind. When fans (I imagine, but maybe I'm just speaking for myself here) complain about it not being new animation, it's less of a "Waaah! I'm entitled! Why they no make show look pretty?" and more the sentiment that Kai, being what it is, just can't stack up to other contemporary shows.

As a recut of Z? Sure, maybe it makes improvements. As a show on its own? There's something rather awkward about it that's just inherent to the way it was produced. No show should be made out of the existing parts of a previous show, because it'll never quite stack up. It's just not going to create the kind of quality, or hell, even average, product a completely new show would. It's a cheap way out, and the effect is cheap.

I just wanted to clarify. I'm done now.

[jjgp1112]

GT, without a doubt. It was always this big legend to me that I was practically salivating to finally see...and it turned out to be a giant, steaming turd. Kai, I never really had much expectations for in the first place. besides, it gave us Chris Ayers.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I don't mind people complaining, what throws me is them going back to shitty filler and staredowns because of something piddly like the music.

I have a working remote control (now with fast forward! :O) and I don't have ADHD. I also have the manga. So...your clever little jabs don't really hold much weight for me, personally. ;p

I'd rather see everyone at their prime, vocally speaking. I mean, were any performances on the Japanese side of things an improvement? I don't recall any. Between deaths and aging, while I'd love to see new material (which would, admittedly, include DB/Z being reanimated ala FMA: Brotherhood/Hellsing Ultimate/etc)...having them redo the same lines verbatim, while kinda nifty on some level...again, see my "80's band reunites and tours" analogy.

Edit: Oh, the censorship. Completely forgot that. Yeah, that's another thing that seemed goofy and detracted from enjoying the series for me.

Edit #2: Fuck, I almost forgot the stunt casting. Yeah...no. Okay, I'm done for real this time. ;p

[MCDaveG]

I'm not some big OMFG GT yeeeeeah!!! fan, but I think that GT beats the crap out of Kai. With all episodes are new material, consistent quality.... Kai is cut & paste Z with awfuly re-drawn scenes and music plagiarised from Holywood flicks (pisses me off as a musician). AND NOT COMPLETE!!

[Rocketman]

I have a working remote control (now with fast forward! :O)

If you have to fast forward through over 50% of something...maybe that something is bad.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I have a working remote control (now with fast forward! :O)

If you have to fast forward through over 50% of something...maybe that something is bad.

This. So much so that I'm the only one who seems to miss the Season Set's quarter-episode divides.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I have a working remote control (now with fast forward! :O)

If you have to fast forward through over 50% of something...maybe that something is bad.

Which is amusing, since you have one of the highest post counts on a forum that, for the majority of your time here, has been dedicated to a great degree to said "bad" series. ;p

[Rocketman]

The manga's good and I still haven't seen more than...oh, maybe ten episodes of the anime. :P

[MajinVejitaXV]

The manga's good and I still haven't seen more than...oh, maybe ten episodes of the anime.

Of which you fast forwarded through more than 5 episodes worth, apparently. ;p

[Li'l Lemmy]

At least five of those episodes are chock-full of Vegetto, I'll bet. Making whatever other five he's referring to painfully irrelevant, anyway. ;p


~Da Lemmy

[Rocketman]

At least five of those episodes are chock-full of Vegetto, I'll bet. Making whatever other five he's referring to painfully irrelevant, anyway. ;p


~Da Lemmy

They cut away from Vegetto turning Super Saiyan to go LOL HERCULES IS STUCK IN A WALL LOL, so y'know...

[MajinVejitaXV]

They cut away from Vegetto turning Super Saiyan to go LOL HERCULES IS STUCK IN A WALL LOL, so y'know...

...did you really just call him Hercules and bitch about a 10 second comic beat? ;p

[Rocketman]

...did you really bitch about a 10 second comic beat? ;p

Yep, since none was needed. A good bit of the anime's problem is constantly defusing moments that should be awesome/tense with LOOOOOL LOOKIT DIS RETARD SIDE CHARACTER AHURR

See also: Goten and Trunks taking a piss while Goku and Vegeta are fighting.

"Hercules" is me being stubborn ever since the filter changed to "the H-word".

[Gonstead]

Some of Kai's pacing in certain scenes just feels wrong in a sense.

Take the Galick Gun vs Kaioken x3 Kamehameha in the Saiyan Saga for example.

In Z, it builds up to an epic confrontation of two mighty beings preparing they're greatest attacks to perhaps once and for all end it in ether's favor and the actual length of the battle and showing that both sides are struggling to dominate the other but Goku is losing the battle ever so slowly until it gets to the point where he has to rely on a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha to get past Vegeta's level, which could have almost killed him.

In Kai however, the build up is lost and the battle just happens far too quickly, losing all of the things I described before. When it comes to when Goku go's Kaioken x4, it just comes out of nowhere as if he just did it because he can.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Yep, since none was needed. A good bit of the anime's problem is constantly defusing moments that should be awesome/tense with LOOOOOL LOOKIT DIS RETARD SIDE CHARACTER AHURR

Ahhh...so you want HARDCORE MAN-ON-MAN ACTION WITH NO BREAKS! ;p

C'mon dude, any scene with Daisuke Gōri is gold. Respect one of the best things about the DragonBall anime. And that scene was fuckin' funny (and didn't detract from Vegetto's "OMG NOW I WILL KICK YOUR ASS...MORE-ER!" moment).

[Li'l Lemmy]

See also: Goten and Trunks taking a piss while Goku and Vegeta are fighting.

YOU LEAVE THIS ONE ALONE, SIR.

Also, complete agreement concerning Daisuke Gōri.


~Da Lemmy

[Kaboom]

For me, Kai was ultimately more of a disappointment, but only because it was never finished.