DragonBall Z Kai - Cable TV Version (NickToons)

[JulieYBM]

...did I just hear an internet connection joke?

[DB_Fan1991]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mCO8l_jsW8

Oh lawd, looks like we have another Kai dub humdinger...

You know this could just be another TV-only line.

[El Diabeetus]

I see nothing wrong with this line, even if it's not in the original Japanese version. Goku's making small talk and I found it kinda funny. And it's not messing up the story, so I see it as okay; and even though it has nothing to do with DBZ itself it's a reminder that this is a 2011 dub of a technically "older" anime.

[penguintruth]

The internet connection line was completely unnecessary and dumb.

However, I'm not outraged or anything, just a little annoyed.

I have no problem with any other lines.

It seems clear to me that an effort is being made by both Clinkenbeard and Whitehead to make Gohan and Dende sound a bit older.

[PuppetDoctor]

I am loving Chris Ranger as Mr. Satan. I never really got the opportunity to hear him much in Dragon Ball Z since in the middle of the Cell Games on YTV it switched to the Ocean Dub and the Buu saga I watched in Japanese or the Ocean Dub on YTV.

The News Reporter voice though is annoying and I hate it. Thankfully, it is a minor role.

[saiyanprimalforce]

I see nothing wrong with this line, even if it's not in the original Japanese version. Goku's making small talk and I found it kinda funny. And it's not messing up the story, so I see it as okay; and even though it has nothing to do with DBZ itself it's a reminder that this is a 2011 dub of a technically "older" anime.

The internet line falls within the same boundaries as King Kai making a cell phone noise while making his joke in part 1, and Roshi's comment about mistaking Bulma for a hot nurse with an "outdated" hairdo. It is a 2011, and actually Toei themselves are the first ones the bring the internet in the db anyway if you remember the Jump 2009 Special where you have Gohan friggin' video chatting with Videl. So, I really don't see the harm in it either.

[VegettoEX]

If you want to write your own show, go write your own show. Or save it for the ones that you have licensed for the specific purpose of entirely re-writing ("Shin-chan").

[funrush]

...did I just hear an internet connection joke?

(Pictures Kami using the internet).

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mCO8l_jsW8

Oh lawd, looks like we have another Kai dub humdinger...

You know this could just be another TV-only line.

Was never making a big deal of it. None of the so-called "pointless" lines have been particularly bad.

[penguintruth]

The worst invented line is Bulma's "You don't think Vegeta would take us hostage to get Goku back here, do you?"

DERP.

[DB_Fan1991]

Besides all these "stupid" lines in Kai's dub are nowhere near as bad as most of the corny dialogue in Z was.

[VegettoEX]

Besides all these "stupid" lines in Kai's dub are nowhere near as bad as most of the corny dialogue in Z was.

What you've just done is excuse it by comparison.

At what point does the slippery-slope switch away from "acceptable" to "obnoxious" to "no longer accurate in the least and Jesus Fucking Christ this is embarrassing to watch", and at what point along the way would it have been worth it to step up and say something?

Welcome to 1999 .

[saiyanprimalforce]

If you want to write your own show, go write your own show. Or save it for the ones that you have licensed for the specific purpose of entirely re-writing ("Shin-chan").

I'm not really sure if I would constitute a few throwaway lines as funi "wanting to write their own show." Not the best decisions maybe, but I hardly see it as a sign funi is taking detrimental creative liberties with the series(unlike the travesty we all lived through before). And while I would prefer the words Kami's Lookout and internet connection be nowhere near each other, the plain truth of the matter is a TON of dialouge in Kai is more or less funimation taking creative liberties. My case in point would be Chris Ayres performance as Freeza in Kai. Not only did they capture Freeza's polite, regal, refined manner of speech, but they actually dialed it up a lot more than the original japanese dialogue(or as how Steve Simmons translated it, anyway). And actually, I'd be lying if I didn't say I think it's actually a better interpretation and understanding of the character than the original dialogue(being based around said original dialogue, of course). Funimation wouldn't really be doing their job(or the best job, rather), if they weren't doing so though.

If someone believes a good dub hinges upon solely that it's 100% accurate word-for-word adaptation, then Kai fails pretty miserably. That, and by doing so, it doesn't take full advantage of the native language it's being dubbed in. But that's where most of the creative liberties on funi's part come from(and where it should end)--in regards to adapting the original lines-- sometimes by completely rewording/rewriting dialogue(yet still carrying the original intent), or even word-for-word sometimes. It's a careful balancing act. . .and sometimes an iffy line may pass the quality control. . .but hey, it's not like the original japanese dialogue is free from a odd or silly line here or there, give or take. In all honestly, nitpicking about a few choice of words or line here or there is the BEST situation we dragonball fans could be in, as opposed to "back in the day", when there was certainly a TON worth complaining and bitching about, when funi was taking real creative liberties with the story, outright disrespecting the original elements of the story.

I'll admit that when I started watching Kai, I was playing more of the "word-for-word" game, sitting there with a mental scorecard going off in my head, but as time has gone on, I've realized that really isn't the key to a good dub(or enjoying it). There are a lot more factors involved. And really, that's part of the fun, to hear it *adapted* into English(properly, and not liberally adapted I mean). It adds to the feeling of freshness or newness. As long as the dialogue carries the original intent, and sounds true to the character's personalities, it's hardly a matter of concern. Making a carbon copy of the original japanese dialogue is kind of pointless anyway, as, that's what the original version with Steve Simmons wonderful subtitles are there for. The bottom line for me is there are lines I like better in the original japanese version, and then there are lines I like better in the English Kai dub. You can't win either way if you like'em both, lol.

Anyways, that's where I've personally arrived at as far as my opinion. Other than that, I'd just like to give a quick shout-out to you from another old-school fan(though you got a couple years on me as far as being apart of them uber fan subbin' days ). Even though I just recently joined the forum, I came from the Daizex(errm VegettoEX), Planet Namek, Castor Troy Vegeta Insane/Ginga Giri Giri, DBZ Uncensored, Greg's Ultimate DBZ Information Website mold of fan. All you guys turned me from naive toonami fan to HARDCORE JAPANESE, RAGE AT FUNIMATION!!!!!! in about the span of a year between the season 3-4 break of 1999-2000, thanks the political indoctrination machine you guys were running back then. Boy, those were the days, those were the days. . .

The worst invented line is Bulma's "You don't think Vegeta would take us hostage to get Goku back here, do you?"

DERP.

Wait, I thought the worst line was BULL-MOOSE?

I'd say DUDE, MY TRUCK is the worst DERP moment since that is a like a trick pulled out of the old Saban Dub playbook of "Hey, I can see there parachutes. They're OK." But I'm pretty sure that it was a mistake that got left in on the Part 5 set so. . .I think you're probably right about that line. Why this was changed from "I wonder if Vegeta has ever worn our type of clothes?" is kind of baffling.

[DB_Fan1991]

If you want to write your own show, go write your own show. Or save it for the ones that you have licensed for the specific purpose of entirely re-writing ("Shin-chan").

I'm not really sure if I would constitute a few throwaway lines as funi "wanting to write their own show." Not the best decisions maybe, but I hardly see it as a sign funi is taking detrimental creative liberties with the series(unlike the travesty we all lived through before). And while I would prefer the words Kami's Lookout and internet connection be nowhere near each other, the plain truth of the matter is a TON of dialouge in Kai is more or less funimation taking creative liberties. My case in point would be Chris Ayres performance as Freeza in Kai. Not only did they capture Freeza's polite, regal, refined manner of speech, but they actually dialed it up a lot more than the original japanese dialogue(or as how Steve Simmons translated it, anyway). And actually, I'd be lying if I didn't say I think it's actually a better interpretation and understanding of the character than the original dialogue(being based around said original dialogue, of course). Funimation wouldn't really be doing their job(or the best job, rather), if they weren't doing so though.

If someone believes a good dub hinges upon solely that it's 100% accurate word-for-word adaptation, then Kai fails pretty miserably. That, and by doing so, it doesn't take full advantage of the native language it's being dubbed in. But that's where most of the creative liberties on funi's part come from(and where it should end)--in regards to adapting the original lines-- sometimes by completely rewording/rewriting dialogue(yet still carrying the original intent), or even word-for-word sometimes. It's a careful balancing act. . .and sometimes an iffy line may pass the quality control. . .but hey, it's not like the original japanese dialogue is free from a odd or silly line here or there, give or take. In all honestly, nitpicking about a few choice of words or line here or there is the BEST situation we dragonball fans could be in, as opposed to "back in the day", when there was certainly a TON worth complaining and bitching about, when funi was taking real creative liberties with the story, outright disrespecting the original elements of the story.

I'll admit that when I started watching Kai, I was playing more of the "word-for-word" game, sitting there with a mental scorecard going off in my head, but as time has gone on, I've realized that really isn't the key to a good dub(or enjoying it). There are a lot more factors involved. And really, that's part of the fun, to hear it *adapted* into English(properly, and not liberally adapted I mean). It adds to the feeling of freshness or newness. As long as the dialogue carries the original intent, and sounds true to the character's personalities, it's hardly a matter of concern. Making a carbon copy of the original japanese dialogue is kind of pointless anyway, as, that's what the original version with Steve Simmons wonderful subtitles are there for. The bottom line for me is there are lines I like better in the original japanese version, and then there are lines I like better in the English Kai dub. You can't win either way if you like'em both, lol.

Anyways, that's where I've personally arrived at as far as my opinion. Other than that, I'd just like to give a quick shout-out to you from another old-school fan(though you got a couple years on me as far as being apart of them uber fan subbin' days ). Even though I just recently joined the forum, I came from the Daizex(errm VegettoEX), Planet Namek, Castor Troy Vegeta Insane/Ginga Giri Giri, DBZ Uncensored, Greg's Ultimate DBZ Information Website mold of fan. All you guys turned me from naive toonami fan to HARDCORE JAPANESE, RAGE AT FUNIMATION!!!!!! in about the span of a year between the season 3-4 break of 1999-2000, thanks the political indoctrination machine you guys were running back then. Boy, those were the days, those were the days. . .

The worst invented line is Bulma's "You don't think Vegeta would take us hostage to get Goku back here, do you?"

DERP.

Wait, I thought the worst line was BULL-MOOSE?

I'd say DUDE, MY TRUCK is the worst DERP moment since that is a like a trick pulled out of the old Saban Dub playbook of "Hey, I can see there parachutes. They're OK." But I'm pretty sure that it was a mistake that got left in on the Part 5 set so. . .I think you're probably right about that line. Why this was changed from "I wonder if Vegeta has ever worn our type of clothes?" is kind of baffling.

If this were Facebook I would have so liked this post because it's true. You can't have a 100% accurate dub because if you did it would be a bit boring. You have to spice up the dialogue sometimes. Kai's dub is 90-95% accurate depending on the episode for most of the series. The early Android arc was like 75-80% accurate, so yes I do excuse the Internet connection line. I found it funny, and not lame like the Z dub's dialogue was.

[AgitoZ]

You can't have a 100% accurate dub because if you did it would be a bit boring. You have to spice up the dialogue sometimes. Kai's dub is 90-95% accurate depending on the episode for most of the series. The early Android arc was like 75-80% accurate, so yes I do excuse the Internet connection line. I found it funny, and not lame like the Z dub's dialogue was.

It isn't their job to spice up the dialogue, or as saiyanprimalforce mentioned, rework their interpretation of the character. Little changes like stick out much more due to the faithfulness of the rest of the dub. It doesn't keep Kai from being a good dub, but it keeps it from being a great dub. As VegettoEX mentioned, where is the line drawn for "creative liberties"?

[penguintruth]

Little changes like stick out much more due to the faithfulness of the rest of the dub. It doesn't keep Kai from being a good dub, but it keeps it from being a great dub.

So much this.

Every time I think Kai's dub is really excellent, it hits a snag.

Granted, I appreciate this HUGE improvement from their previous efforts, don't get me wrong, but completely inventing lines like that is too much.

[El Diabeetus]

I'd just cut the line at anything that isn't story altering. The only line I've noticed that's iffy on that regard is the "childhood sweethearts" line in Episode 1 from the narrator. That'd may be true for Chi-Chi's case, but, Goku's a little to oblivious to it to actually make that believable.

Most of the "changes" aren't story altering so I'm okay with them. I'd rather have as close to a 100% accurate as possible dub (along the lines of Death Note, in my personal opinion); but, Kai's dub is very acceptable. I'm happy with it as long as it doesn't go the way toward the way they took it with the original Z dub. There's still things I wish they would've changed to make things a bit more consistent. But, I'll take a good dub over a shitty one. But, I'll list what I'd ideally like for FUNimation to change. It's mainly terminology:

- Tien -> Tenshinhan
- Saiyan Pronunciation ("Say-yan" -> "Sigh-an") They changed Kaio-ken's pronunciation to the proper one and it's the exact same issue that used to exist.
- Tri-Beam -> Kikoho
- Solar Flare -> Taiyo-ken (Be consistent, the only used the latter once I think. Same situation as the Spirit Bomb explanation below.)
- Spirit Bomb -> Genki-Dama (Nothing wrong with this in my opinion, but, is out of place with a majority of the attacks retaining their Japanese names now.)
- Put Chris Ayres' Freeza laugh in Episode 1.
- Correct Krillin's mispronunciation of Kienzan in one of the Saiyan saga episodes, I forget the specific episode.
- Also correct the Dende's line's about brothers and sisters. Like it's fine to probably say male since they're implied to all be male. But just the gender neutral "siblings" could work better and sticks with the technical "no gender" that Toriyama seemed to want with Namekians.
- Hyperbolic Time Chamber -> Room of Spirit and Time

----------------------------------------------------------------

And it has nothing to do with their dub; but, FUNimation should really market the fact that there's an uncut version, with blood, more cussing than Z ever had, better acting (it's entirely subjective; but, most seem to agree) it seems like it'd help their sales.

It's kinda annoying they changed some terms; but, not others. They didn't wanna alienate fans; but, by changing some of the voices, some terms and not FUNimation's fault and they're actually treating DB like a legit anime now. But, the lack of the Falcouner music seems to piss some off. I think they should've re-did most of the terms as listed above instead of going 75% there instead of 95-100%.

[saiyanprimalforce]

If this were Facebook I would have so liked this post because it's true. You can't have a 100% accurate dub because if you did it would be a bit boring. You have to spice up the dialogue sometimes. Kai's dub is 90-95% accurate depending on the episode for most of the series. The early Android arc was like 75-80% accurate, so yes I do excuse the Internet connection line. I found it funny, and not lame like the Z dub's dialogue was.

Well, my point wasn't that a 100% accurate dub would be boring, but more of the fact reworking/rewording the dialogue adds more polish and gleam to what could otherwise be clunky and odd sounding dialogue. It's really a necessity, if you want everything to sound natural and professionally acted. And I want to make clear, I'm not defending the internet connection line, but the idea that creative liberties don't have place in a dub, when in fact, almost every line is a creative liberty, to one degree or another. The key is the balance I mentioned above in my original post. And I don't mean to confuse "creative liberties" with the idea they can go hog wild and make up something that has no basis in the original intent(those days are over, thankfully).

(And btw, thanks for "liking" my post, haha )

You can't have a 100% accurate dub because if you did it would be a bit boring. You have to spice up the dialogue sometimes. Kai's dub is 90-95% accurate depending on the episode for most of the series. The early Android arc was like 75-80% accurate, so yes I do excuse the Internet connection line. I found it funny, and not lame like the Z dub's dialogue was.

It isn't their job to spice up the dialogue, or as saiyanprimalforce mentioned, rework their interpretation of the character. Little changes like stick out much more due to the faithfulness of the rest of the dub. It doesn't keep Kai from being a good dub, but it keeps it from being a great dub. As VegettoEX mentioned, where is the line drawn for "creative liberties"?

But you see, it kinda is there job. They're getting paid to rework the original material into more than competent English dialogue. They would, to me, be doing a disservice to their dub if they weren't. Like, I know some Akira fans complain about the 2001 Pioneer redub because it's so accurate that it sounds awkward sometimes compared to the Original 1989 Orion dub. Even though the Pioneer one is more accurate than the Original one, they probably could have taken a little effort to refine some of the dialogue to sound better on the ears. But, if you believe funimation should leave everything untouched, I guess you and a lot of other poeple dislike how they saturated Freeza with even more polite dialogue then, correct? But yet, you don't see anyone complaining about that, do you? Yet that is taking creative liberties right there, but a great example of doing it properly and respectfully to the both the original intentions, and personality of the character. By simply emphasizing that aspect of Freeza's character, it brings his character out more.

I mean, I think I understand this from the purist perspective's train of logic. Hell, I would've called myself one even just a few years ago. "If it ain't jap, it ain't right!" sort of mentality. I don't know, maybe it's just me, since I'm neither a hardcore anime fan, nor a guy who watches only original japanese versions of anime shows because "no dub can be as good as the original". Kai has been nothing short of EPIC to me. It's a GREAT dub. . .to me. I mean, I could cherry pick apart some things I would prefer, (like King Kai not being given to the announcer VA, Sabat not giving up Yamucha, Solar Flare, Tri-Beam, etc) but at the end of the day(these days, anyway), as long as they aren't outright contradicting any kind of story aspect or character motivation, delivering great VA performances, and the script is solid, I just sit back and enjoy the fuckin' show. Enjoy it for being what it is--properly english dubbed dragonball. If I want the pure, unfiltered version, I'll go back to Z on my dragonboxes as easy as that.

Some of the things people complain about honestly baffle me sometimes. Like, I remember a couple people complaining about that one small, small scene about 18's off-the-cuff remark of "Now, this is offroading!" Which when it came to people's reason to complain, was because it's not in the original. Which, I reply with are you friggin' kidding me? 1)I thought it was clever, funny quip 2)It was perfectly in their character, since it's established in the series, and in the History of Trunks special, that they bicker like brother and sister about the smallest, trivial things. And 3)It was FUNNY! Honestly, whether that small little exchange wasn't as close to the original dialogue in that small snippet or not, it's very far from being some kind of unreasonable, out-of-character exchange. Hell, I loved pretty much everybit of 17 and 18's bratty exchanges in Kai. But, I guess that's just me.

As far as Mike's comment about where the creativity liberty line is drawn--I'd say there's not an exact answer, but more like a balancing act while walking along a tightrope. You don't want to veer too much one way or the other, for fear of crashing and burning, but sometimes its possible to slip up, or put the foot out the wrong way. But in ten years, Funimation has certainly become pretty damn good at being consistent at balancing the best of both sides of the equation. . .98% of the time, anyway

Most of the "changes" aren't story altering so I'm okay with them. I'd rather have as close to a 100% accurate as possible dub (along the lines of Death Note, in my personal opinion); but, Kai's dub is very acceptable. I'm happy with it as long as it doesn't go the way toward the way they took it with the original Z dub. There's still things I wish they would've changed to make things a bit more consistent. But, I'll take a good dub over a shitty one. But, I'll list what I'd ideally like for FUNimation to change. It's mainly terminology:

- Tien -> Tenshinhan
- Saiyan Pronunciation ("Say-yan" -> "Sigh-an") They changed Kaio-ken's pronunciation to the proper one and it's the exact same issue that used to exist.
- Tri-Beam -> Kikoho
- Solar Flare -> Taiyo-ken (Be consistent, the only used the latter once I think. Same situation as the Spirit Bomb explanation below.)
- Spirit Bomb -> Genki-Dama (Nothing wrong with this in my opinion, but, is out of place with a majority of the attacks retaining their Japanese names now.)
- Put Chris Ayres' Freeza laugh in Episode 1.
- Correct Krillin's mispronunciation of Kienzan in one of the Saiyan saga episodes, I forget the specific episode.
- Also correct the Dende's line's about brothers and sisters. Like it's fine to probably say male since they're implied to all be male. But just the gender neutral "siblings" could work better and sticks with the technical "no gender" that Toriyama seemed to want with Namekians.
- Hyperbolic Time Chamber -> Room of Spirit and Time

----------------------------------------------------------------

And it has nothing to do with their dub; but, FUNimation should really market the fact that there's an uncut version, with blood, more cussing than Z ever had, better acting (it's entirely subjective; but, most seem to agree) it seems like it'd help their sales.

It's kinda annoying they changed some terms; but, not others. They didn't wanna alienate fans; but, by changing some of the voices, some terms and not FUNimation's fault and they're actually treating DB like a legit anime now. But, the lack of the Falcouner music seems to piss some off. I think they should've re-did most of the terms as listed above instead of going 75% there instead of 95-100%.

Besides the idea of changing the Saiyan pronunciation(I think it's just been ingrained in my head that way too long, lol), I pretty much agree with your list. And yes, they really haven't marketed the uncut version the best. You see all kinds of ignorant people under youtube comments or even videos trashing Kai like it's a kiddy friendly Z, when in fact it's more "hardcore" than Z ever was, in terms of maturity. It's kind of annoying actually, especially since in this day and age with the internet, it's no to hard to figure out what the deal is.

[El Diabeetus]

I've gone the opposite way, I knew the Say-yan pronunciation forever, but I got so used to saying it as Sigh-an, as that's how I read it and have said it in fandubs/parodies that it's just what I hear now. Hearing Say-yan bothers the hell out of me. It kinda bothers me when I go listen to officially dubbed Dragon Ball since that's what nearly all English dubs pronounce it as. It's no different than the previous Kaio-ken pronunciation issue (Kay-yo Ken to Kai-o Ken) and should be consistent if you ask me.

[TripleRach]

You can't have a 100% accurate dub because if you did it would be a bit boring.

Being accurate doesn't automatically mean being wooden and unnatural. They're not mutually exclusive, unless you're talking about doing a completely 1:1 translation that leaves things in Japanese word order or something. The only creativity you need in the translation process is, "How can I word this to sound like natural English?" When you start adding extra jokes or completely altering lines, then you've gone too far.

FUNimation dubs are certainly good at the sounding like natural English part (especially compared to a lot of other modern dubs). They just need to quit with the cute little "punch up" lines.