Did FUNimation overstep their bounds?

[penguintruth]

Big O and Gundam Wing aired on Toonami the same year DBZ's third season came on, and both utterly trounce DBZ in quality of English dub. I can buy the first two seasons' bad quality was a product of its time, but by the third season, it's unacceptable.

[AgitoZ]

With this in mind, there is a possible point to be made that the quality of TV anime dubs may not have increased were it not for Dragon Ball Z's success bringing in the Toonami wave.

But there's an even point to be made. DBZ brought in the Toonami wave because it was DBZ, not because of the quality of the dub or how it was handled.

[KiddoCabbusses]

Big O and Gundam Wing aired on Toonami the same year DBZ's third season came on, and both utterly trounce DBZ in quality of English dub. I can buy the first two seasons' bad quality was a product of its time, but by the third season, it's unacceptable.

These are both factually incorrect. Gundam Wing premiered on Toonami in 2000. The Big O Premiered on Toonami in 2001. Season 3 premiered in 1999.

To be more precise, Season 3 premiered in September of 1999 while Gundam Wing premiered March 2000. While six months may not be considered by some as a wide window, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole of Season 3 was dubbed in less than that amount of time.

But there's an even point to be made. DBZ brought in the Toonami wave because it was DBZ, not because of the quality of the dub or how it was handled.

I'm not arguing anything about how FUNi's alterations affected the amount it's popularity(Except that the response to the UUEs suggest that Season 1 and 2 did better because of Z's pacing issues, but that doesn't have much to do with anything akin to the writing, music or voice acting.)
My point was that it's unfair to UNIQUELY fault FUNi for doing something that was common practice (perhaps, they may have believed at that time, even common sense) in that era of anime dubbing, especially holding a grudge against them years after the fact in spite of their fundamental shift from those times. Indeed, many folks nowadays are so spoiled by the quality of modern-day anime dubs, they don't recall the times when the -majority- of imported anime was hacked to pieces.
My brining up the "Toonami Wave" was to highlight that, rather ironically, DBZ's dub, considered a hackjob or not, is an important reason why the quality of anime dubbing has increased since it's airing.

[Rocketman]

(Except that the response to the UUEs suggest that Season 1 and 2 did better because of Z's pacing issues, but that doesn't have much to do with anything akin to the writing, music or voice acting.)

It does have to do with FUNi "overstepping their bounds" by altering the holy writ of Japanese Dragonball.

But I'm sure everyone would've instantly adored Gohan wandering around a forest and crying for twenty minutes because it's ~accurate~.

[jjgp1112]

And let's be honest: most of the criticisms you see of DBZ nowadays have shit to do with the dub. Most people complain about the dragged out fights, inconsistent animation, the filler, and the occasionally repetitive story elements. I mean, pretty much every punchline of every Dragon ball Z joke is "But it'll take 20 episodes" or "But they'll stare at each other for 15 minutes beforehand"

[rs_chaosmaster]

Of course they did even us a dub fan i realize this it is hard for me to watch Dubbed Z now compared to Kai but I absolutely despise most of Faulconer's musical tracks the Japanese music is much better!!! Although I do prefer two tracks to Japanese and thats Mystic Gohans Music as well as the history of trunks music dubbed. It was really disappointing that spirit vs spirit was only on the subbed dbz for the dragon boxes and not the dubbed but oh well!!! That is by far the best musical piece in all of DBZ!!! It would not have been hard to silence Stephanie and have that musical score oh well :/!!! Hopefully the Kai music is good it would have to be absolute shit to be worse than the Dubbed score though LOL!!!

[Majin Buu]

In the end, all of us enjoy and its universal no matter what dub, we're getting the same experience, dialogue aside.

We are not getting the same experience, and the dialogue is only one aspect of that. As a fan of the original Japanese version, I would not say that I have gotten the same experience as a dub fan for several reasons. Sub fans and dub fans are not fans of the same Dragon Ball Z.

[rs_chaosmaster]

I don't know if i would take it to that extreme I mean yes their are tons of stuff that is different from subbed and dubbed but as a dubbed fan I enjoy Kai more because it is as close as it will ever be to the Japanese for English Z!!! Well maybe not guess we will find out someday!!!

[Rocketman]

And let's be honest: most of the criticisms you see of DBZ nowadays have shit to do with the dub. Most people complain about the dragged out fights, inconsistent animation, the filler, and the occasionally repetitive story elements. I mean, pretty much every punchline of every Dragon ball Z joke is "But it'll take 20 episodes" or "But they'll stare at each other for 15 minutes beforehand"

Nowadays? I don't think I've ever seen somebody go "DBZ would've been awesome if everybody stared at each other for hours in silence instead of cracking bad jokes" who wasn't already in the subbie legion.

[samuraigundam]

I check this board after a year, and its the same as it ever was.

I personally consider mysef a big fan of DBZ, and I like both the original Japanese dub, and aspects of Funis dub, and by that I mean Faulconers music; It just feels more epic exactly when it should, to me. Thats not to say Kikuchis isnt great, but I just feel Faulconers score properly highlights epic moments that his never did - Gokus first transformation to Super Saiya-Jin is a prime example: Flat in the original, exciting in the dub. I dont think I'm less of a fan because I appreciate those things.

Big O and Gundam Wing aired on Toonami the same year DBZ's third season came on, and both utterly trounce DBZ in quality of English dub. I can buy the first two seasons' bad quality was a product of its time, but by the third season, it's unacceptable.

I've revisited that GW dub lately. The dub VAs were great, but I realized the dialogue for a good amount of episodes was a verbatim translation, and came off odd.

[dbboxkaifan]

So, I wonder, why FUNimation during Majin Boo's arc decided to come up with "Hi, nice day" than "You retard". The Eng dub on the DVD sets is the uncut not censored, but as it looks like, it's pretty censored.

"Darn" was also replaced by "damn" and no "You retard" instead "Hi, nice day".

I suppose "retard" would be too much for FUNimation to handle so "imbecile", "fool", "ignorant", "idiot" or "numbskull" would've done it for the replacement word.

Super Boo didn't get pissed off because Gohan said "Hi, nice day" but due to calling him a retard.

Majin Boo's arc was still the one with FUNimation's most decent DBZ dub out of the previous arcs (if it weren't for Gohan's awful voice I'd say Cell's arc would've also been decent).

samuraigundam @ A dub is: Spanish (Castellano, Catalán, Valenciano, Gallego, Español Latino) Portuguese (Portugal, Brazil), Italian, English, French, German, Turkish, Korean, Chinese / The original is: Japanese Audio

If FUNimation were to re-cast the English dub for the Majin Boo DBZ, it'd actually accurate (as a dub goes as far as being accurate), definitely would be a whole lot better and awesome (if it'd be like the Kai Eng dub).

[AgitoZ]

So, I wonder, why FUNimation during Majin Boo's arc decided to come up with "Hi, nice day" than "You retard". The Eng dub on the DVD sets is the uncut not censored, but as it looks like, it's pretty censored.

"Darn" was also replaced by "damn" and no "You retard" instead "Hi, nice day".

I suppose "retard" would be too much for FUNimation to handle so "imbecile", "fool", "ignorant", "idiot" or "numbskull" would've done it for the replacement word.

Super Boo didn't get pissed off because Gohan said "Hi, nice day" but due to calling him a retard.

Majin Boo's arc was still the one with FUNimation's most decent DBZ dub out of the previous arcs (if it weren't for Gohan's awful voice I'd say Cell's arc would've also been decent).

Although I need to rewatch Boo, if that's what the line was changed to it's not surprising. DBZ had always been uncensored, visually speaking.

[dbboxkaifan]

I've just uploaded a comparison video of Gohan's cussing Majin Boo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1Q6FO_wCU

[Majin Buu]

I personally consider mysef a big fan of DBZ, and I like both the original Japanese dub, and aspects of Funis dub, and by that I mean Faulconers music; It just feels more epic exactly when it should, to me. Thats not to say Kikuchis isnt great, but I just feel Faulconers score properly highlights epic moments that his never did - Gokus first transformation to Super Saiya-Jin is a prime example: Flat in the original, exciting in the dub. I dont think I'm less of a fan because I appreciate those things.

I can't disagree more.

What you call "flat", I call subdued, and thus, more effective than the in your face, big damn heroes feel of the dub version. The original Japanese version manages to get the point across that this is something big without it feeling cheesy and over the top.

Echoing what Penguintruth said, one of the main problems with the dub is that it lacks any kind of subtlety and always has to be excruciatingly obvious with its delivery. That scene perfectly illustrates this.

[kemuri07]

Except that it means quite a lot. Are you really going to try and tell me that attitudes towards anime hasn't changed since 1996? We currently live in an era where Anime is extremely easy to obtain (both to purchase and for free); but, in 1996? Anime wasn't really a known quantity to the mass public, and the anime that were shown on American television (Sailormoon, Samurai Pizza Cats, Voltron) were heavily Americanized. By the time DBZ was released, most people's knowledge of anime only came from Pokemon (another heavily modified anime). It was only really until DBZ's initial success, as well as the rise of Adult Swim, that people started to realize that anime wasn't simply for kids, and was capable of more adult-oriented material.

Except we are talking about little kids who are not thinking about a country of origin. Kids whose counterparts had access to the same DBZ footage in 1996 and did not run them off because it was SOOOO Japanesey, and it is exactly the same now. But Kai does not work as an example for you? Then how about the Pioneer-released movies? Original music, accurate translation to the point that attack names were being pronounced differently than anyone had heard in the dub to that point, and Nozawa singing on American television for crying out loud! It basically WAS Kai... but back in the 90s. And guess what? It worked back then too. I think that is all the proof you need right there that it would have worked... because it did.

And I like The Big Bang Theory, thank you very much...

While I'll ignore the bit about BBT (because it would be too damn easy), your example doesn't exactly disprove my point. Those movies were:
A: released in the hey-day of DBZ's popularity
B: Part of a dub that was itself incredibly Americanized (and in ways, much worse than Funimation's own meddling of the show)

I'm not saying that the difference in culture was so vast that American children would have angrily shut off their television sets at the mere thought of seeing something that wasn't American, and I have no doubt in my mind that DBZ would have drew in a crowd regardless (mostly because Pokemon did spark a level of interest in Anime by then); however, I do not believe that it would have become the phenomenon it became if it wasn't for the fact that it was absolutely accessible to the American public.

Also, let's talk about the kids: We're not talking about 5 year olds watching the show. We're talking about 10-13 year olds--the kind of kids who have been exposed to quite a bit of Americana over the years. So yes, I do think they'd understand the gap in culture that a "more accurate" version of DBZ would create. While I'm not saying this about all preteens/teenagers, I am saying that it wouldn't be surprised if quite a few were alienated by how "japanese" the show is.

But there's an even point to be made. DBZ brought in the Toonami wave because it was DBZ, not because of the quality of the dub or how it was handled.

I'm not arguing anything about how FUNi's alterations affected the amount it's popularity(Except that the response to the UUEs suggest that Season 1 and 2 did better because of Z's pacing issues, but that doesn't have much to do with anything akin to the writing, music or voice acting.)
My point was that it's unfair to UNIQUELY fault FUNi for doing something that was common practice (perhaps, they may have believed at that time, even common sense) in that era of anime dubbing, especially holding a grudge against them years after the fact in spite of their fundamental shift from those times. Indeed, many folks nowadays are so spoiled by the quality of modern-day anime dubs, they don't recall the times when the -majority- of imported anime was hacked to pieces.
My brining up the "Toonami Wave" was to highlight that, rather ironically, DBZ's dub, considered a hackjob or not, is an important reason why the quality of anime dubbing has increased since it's airing.

Well said.

[rs_chaosmaster]

Ok people have a right to their opinions but that person who did that article Japanese voices sound like pussies is a moron!!! I would suggest not even watching it as your intelligence level might go down. I as a dub fan am saying this in all honesty if it wasn't for Gokus VA in the japanese dub I wouldn't mind the Japanese version!!! But to start saying every Japanese VA sounds like a pussy what kind of moron are you??? Oh well guess that's just how some people voice their opinions!!!

Their was one line that made me laugh how Toriyama intended frieza to sound like a smoking Granny and how horrible Ayres voice is for Frieza!! How would he know what the Author intended just trying to support his sad fantasy, Oh Well

[dbboxkaifan]

OK people have a right to their opinions but that person who did that article Japanese voices sound like pussies is a moron!!! I would suggest not even watching it as your intelligence level might go down. I as a dub fan am saying this in all honesty if it wasn't for Goku's VA in the Japanese Audio I wouldn't mind the Japanese version!!! But to start saying every Japanese VA sounds like a pussy what kind of moron are you??? Oh well guess that's just how some people voice their opinions!!!

There was one line that made me laugh how Toriyama intended Freeza to sound like a smoking granny and how horrible Ayres voice is for Freeza!! How would he know what the Author intended just trying to support his sad fantasy, oh well.

FUNimation DBZ fanboys are the worse, they can't reckon the DBZ FUNi dub was an abortion, and be happy with FUNi's DBZ Kai dub, which is, what DBZ FUNi dub should've been.

If I could, I'd thank FUNimation for hiring Ayres to voice Lord Freeza, and Colleen to voice Gohan, it really is a superb English dub! Oh, and yeah, Dameon Clarke did his role as Cell perfectly, too bad he doesn't work/voice for FUNimation any more.

FUNimation's loss but more for the English dub fans because they'll have to stick with Travis (whom voices Cell since the Raging Blast series) for Cell's vocal.

They really should've had Gohan say "You idiot" to Majin Boo (Super Boo), than "Hi, nice day".

[penguintruth]

Ok people have a right to their opinions but that person who did that article Japanese voices sound like pussies is a moron!!! I would suggest not even watching it as your intelligence level might go down. I as a dub fan am saying this in all honesty if it wasn't for Gokus VA in the japanese dub I wouldn't mind the Japanese version!!! But to start saying every Japanese VA sounds like a pussy what kind of moron are you??? Oh well guess that's just how some people voice their opinions!!!

Their was one line that made me laugh how Toriyama intended Freeza to sound like a smoking Granny and how horrible Ayres voice is for Freeza!! How would he know what the Author intended just trying to support his sad fantasy, Oh Well

You mean my article?

Learn to detect sarcasm.

[dbzkfan543]

I'm of the opinion that we need more edited for kids dubs.

That's how you get a wider range of fans, having a way to introduce them to it.

I agree that it is a way to get a wider range of fans, but there should be a purchasable, legal release of both the cut and uncut versions released around the same time. that are CLEARLY LABELED AS SUCH. That way, they can step up once they are mature enough to handle it once they are ready.

Seriously, this is a topic that everyone has their own opinion of the subject you've brought up. I personally hate 4Kids's (aka the former biggest offender for anime editing, who acquired a lot of anime and butchered them all to hell and back) and, heck, even DiC's (of Sailor Moon editing fame, even though I used to love that show in its edited form, despite being a boy {those goddamn skirts} ) guts, but not every edited dub is like that.

[AgitoZ]

I agree that it is a way to get a wider range of fans, but there should be a purchasable, legal release of both the cut and uncut versions released around the same time. that are CLEARLY LABELED AS SUCH. That way, they can step up once they are mature enough to handle it once they are ready.

Add yet another release of the series to store shelves? Further confusing the general masses? No thanks.