Did FUNimation overstep their bounds?

[dprez]

the alien warriors they meet and fight, hearing it all in a language I do not understand does it for me. It gives it a realistic feel. Hearing it spoken by derp de derp white people, talking like I do, just feels...awkward.

Wait. So aliens who somehow are able to all speak Japanese are somehow more realistic than aliens who are able to speak English?

Hell, just talking about realism in regards to DBZ makes my brain hurt.

Dude, that's how manga goes. Everyone speaks the same language. It being something other than English is what does it for me.

[VegettoEX]

Well, there have been plenty of legitimate discussions pointing toward Gohan not having a character AT ALL by that point in the series, so if you subscribe to that viewpoint, him tossing out "retard" isn't all that much of a stretch .

Personally, I always saw it as him being cocky for pretty much only the second time in the series (previously only after his Super Saiyan 2 transformation against Cell and wanting to make him suffer). At this point, he's gonna start shit-talking the tiniest bit.

[Levlik]

Personally, it seems like a shockingly meanspirited thing for Gohan to say given how polite he normally is. Seems more like something Vegeta would say. I mean, there's a difference between say, calling someone a "bastard" and calling someone a "nigger", right? The dub dialogue seems more in character for Gohan.

But changing his dialogue to "Hi, nice day" or something like that kind of undermine's the entire "gag" of the scene being that Gohan is so ridiculously powerful and overconfident that he'd outright insult his opponent in such a harsh way. And then there's Piccolo's hilarious reaction to something Gohan would never do which doesn't really make any sense in any other circumstance.

[penguintruth]

And they aren't even artistically obligated to stay close to Toei's version. If they want to make changes based on artistic decision, they are upholding their integrity

I disagree. Funimation did not create the anime Dragon Ball Z. Toei made it. Licensing is being lent to for money as far as I'm concerned. It isn't Funimation's place to change things wholesale.

If Funimation wants a show where a character spouts "ALLY TO GOOD! NIGHTMARE TO YOU!" then they should animate their own program with a character who would say that. Son Goku would NOT say that, and it's their job to ensure he doesn't.

Funimation cannot be part of the creative process unless they had a hand in the construction of the show.



And let's face it, if Funimation did what it did to DBZ to another show, there would be far less people defending them. Because DBZ's dub is nostalgic for a lot of people, the flaws of the dub are seen as not a big deal, or even as improvements, even at a time when some Funimation staff are embarrassed by the old ways.

[Akumaito Beam]

I kind of have a horse in this particular race with the whole General Blue being a pedophile stuff. That sort of thing is varying degrees of hurtful depending on who you are. You won't find me defending the dub as a quality production but it is kind of nice to see someone go "Woah, wait...what? N-no" and fix it for their adaptation. I personally do feel like if a giant walking sambo sterotype will make people feel awful when watching a cartoon they otherwise derive a lot of joy from there should be some tactful working around the matter. Heck, Funi not making him talk like a brainless caveman was a big step in the right direction.

[Fionordequester]

But changing his dialogue to "Hi, nice day" or something like that kind of undermine's the entire "gag" of the scene being that Gohan is so ridiculously powerful and overconfident that he'd outright insult his opponent in such a harsh way. And then there's Piccolo's hilarious reaction to something Gohan would never do which doesn't really make any sense in any other circumstance.

Well then, how about just saying "dumbass"? That seems like a suitable replacement, right?

[Levlik]

I kind of have a horse in this particular race with the whole General Blue being a pedophile stuff. That sort of thing is varying degrees of hurtful depending on who you are. You won't find me defending the dub as a quality production but it is kind of nice to see someone go "Woah, wait...what? N-no" and fix it for their adaptation. I personally do feel like if a giant walking sambo sterotype will make people feel awful when watching a cartoon they otherwise derive a lot of joy from there should be some tactful working around the matter. Heck, Funi not making him talk like a brainless caveman was a big step in the right direction.

And then there's Killa.

[Akumaito Beam]

I kind of have a horse in this particular race with the whole General Blue being a pedophile stuff. That sort of thing is varying degrees of hurtful depending on who you are. You won't find me defending the dub as a quality production but it is kind of nice to see someone go "Woah, wait...what? N-no" and fix it for their adaptation. I personally do feel like if a giant walking sambo sterotype will make people feel awful when watching a cartoon they otherwise derive a lot of joy from there should be some tactful working around the matter. Heck, Funi not making him talk like a brainless caveman was a big step in the right direction.

And then there's Killa.

I totally meant to bring that up too. Not to mention most black characters you see have white people doing sterotypical urban accents playing them. Yeeeeup, t-that is a point.

I'm typing with a PS3 controller by the way so sorry if I'm a bit short with my replies.

[KiddoCabbusses]

Ultimately, FUNi does care about their fans.

Yes, NOW they do. But it wasn't always the way things are now.

It's been over a decade since FUNi started making DVDs with uncut JP episodes, yet this statement makes it sound like it only happened recently. Combined with the earlier errors involving the broadcasts of other Toonami anime, I seem to get the perception that when it comes to DBZ, you lose your grasp on time.
[Insert a joke about 5 minutes on Namek here.]

I guess I should ask, what more can FUNi do to appease you so they aren't considered these great antagonists anymore? They've already released Dragon Ball Z in the best edition fans of the Japanese version of the series can ask for with the Dragon Box. They dubbed Kai with a more faithful translation and better voice acting, making the show actually worth watching for someone like me who wasn't just interested in "Abridged Remastered Z". And speaking of remastered, their Blu-Rays pretty much fix the biggest and most universal complaints about their last "remastering" attempt. They've pretty much done everything just short of "Redub the show from the ground up using Steve Simmons' translations word for word and having an Linda Young voice Goku instead of Freeza".

I'm pretty sure the Sailor Moon fans are still waiting for Stars to come out at all, in comparison.

And let's face it, if Funimation did what it did to DBZ to another show, there would be far less people defending them.

They did substantially more alterations to Crayon Shin-chan, yet there was never as strong a reaction. The reason there'd be less people defending them is because there'd be general apathy. DBZ is put on a pedestal due to it's popularity.

[Fionordequester]

What's wrong with what Penguin said? All he said was that they were different back then. Nothing about them being great moneygrubbing jerks now.

[Kendamu]

I'm wondering why people get so hung up on FUNi not being accurate to the original anime created by Toei while that anime wasn't accurate to begin with.

I've explained this already. It's Funimation's place to be accurate to the anime as Toei made it. Toei's own flaws are a seperate matter. You need to learn to compartmentalize.

It's their investment, fine, but they have a duty to the integrity of the product, too. Not a legal obligation, but an artistic one.

I'm saying Toei's flaws aren't a separate matter at all, if we are going to compare the two (which some here are doing).

The thing is, they are separate matters. They're not the same company. They're not tasked with the same things. One made a manga into an anime. The other distributed it in the USA. Let's not forget that it's been stated already that Toei doesn't get a free pass for their filler and inconsistencies. Those things are brought up all the time in relation to in-universe discussions. Because of what Toei's done to the anime version, some of us (myself included) very much prefer the manga over anything else.

The discussion here is about FUNimation. Let's not try too much to roll the discussion into "Well, Toei did this and you're not complaining, are you?" We complain about it. We just complain about it where it applies. Right now, it doesn't apply.

[KiddoCabbusses]

What's wrong with what Penguin said? All he said was that they were different back then. Nothing about them being great moneygrubbing jerks now.

The "NOW" in all caps being stressed, for the most part. Also the fact that I don't consider "Over a decade ago" to be "NOW".

[Codarik]

What I don't understand is, how can anyone like Japanese Goku? Here you have the main character having a ton of flaws (we all know what they are), while FUNimation Goku is a goody two-shoes who never wants to fight unless its to protect his friends and/or the Earth, wants to get stronger so he will be able to beat whatever threatens the Earth next and is polite to people, a perfect main character. How can you not like FUNi Goku? In my honest opinion FUNimation did the greater good by changing Goku's character.

[VegettoEX]

Why do you have to like Goku?

I hate every single character in Evangelion, yet love the series.

I don't particularly relate to or identify with Goku myself, either, but still love him and the series he's a part of.

[AgitoZ]

They did substantially more alterations to Crayon Shin-chan, yet there was never as strong a reaction. The reason there'd be less people defending them is because there'd be general apathy. DBZ is put on a pedestal due to it's popularity.

Or maybe because they don't try to hide the fact that the dub script is a complete rewrite.

What I don't understand is, how can anyone like Japanese Goku? Here you have the main character having a ton of flaws (we all know what they are), while FUNimation Goku is a goody two-shoes who never wants to fight unless its to protect his friends and/or the Earth, wants to get stronger so he will be able to beat whatever threatens the Earth next and is polite to people, a perfect main character. How can you not like FUNi Goku? In my honest opinion FUNimation did the greater good by changing Goku's character.

Maybe because all those flaws stop Goku from being incredibly generic and boring?

[Bussani]

What I don't understand is, how can anyone like Japanese Goku? Here you have the main character having a ton of flaws (we all know what they are)

I'm actually surprised to see someone say that as if a character having flaws is a bad thing. I like characters with flaws more than goody two-shoe characters.

[Fionordequester]

Perhaps because everyone in the show loves Goku so much. I can see it giving their grief for him more weight.

[thedarkuniter]

I personally like both English and Japanese interpretations of Goku. Both to me nails Goku's happy-go-lucky personality and laid-back attitude. The Japanese Goku and to a lesser extent the English Kai Goku speaks improperly saying ain't's and such. The only difference are the genders performing the characters. I find it interesting that only in Japan, Goku is performed by a woman ( nothing's wrong with that) but elsewhere, he's performed by a guy.

[Kid Buu]

What I don't understand is, how can anyone like Japanese Goku? Here you have the main character having a ton of flaws (we all know what they are)

I'm actually surprised to see someone say that as if a character having flaws is a bad thing. I like characters with flaws more than goody two-shoe characters.

Same. The reason why I like it better that way is because we don't live in a black & white world where people are "good" and "bad," but rather a world where everyone has flaws and no one is perfect.

[DBZ Mick]

What I don't understand is, how can anyone like Japanese Goku? Here you have the main character having a ton of flaws (we all know what they are), while FUNimation Goku is a goody two-shoes who never wants to fight unless its to protect his friends and/or the Earth, wants to get stronger so he will be able to beat whatever threatens the Earth next and is polite to people, a perfect main character. How can you not like FUNi Goku? In my honest opinion FUNimation did the greater good by changing Goku's character.

Because English Son is generic and a stereotype superhero.

Having flaws makes him more compelling to watch.