Did FUNimation overstep their bounds?

[Rocketman]

While I agree that flaws are good, I feel like there's a pretty big disconnect between the horrible selfish gluttonous wifebeating bastard JP Goku is and the slavering way everybody but Vegeta fawns over him.

[Fionordequester]

Ah, now that's not fair. Goku's not a wifebeater...intentionally.

[KiddoCabbusses]

They did substantially more alterations to Crayon Shin-chan, yet there was never as strong a reaction. The reason there'd be less people defending them is because there'd be general apathy. DBZ is put on a pedestal due to it's popularity.

Or maybe because they don't try to hide the fact that the dub script is a complete rewrite.

I'll give that sometimes they tend to terribly mix the "Japanese" marketing elements with the "Dub rewrite" stuff, but It's not like the Japanese option on their DVDs is inconveniently buried in as a difficult-to-grab Easter egg, or that they used dubtitle subs or a terrible subtitle translation.

Besides that, I don't even really see how that matters much. All that changes is how quickly the complaints start coming. It's not like openness somehow makes dub rewriting magically more or less ethical than it's considered.

I probably should've tried thinking of a more poignant example, but I can't think of any other series in particular that FUNi rewrote as much as they did Shin-chan.

[Attitudefan]

What I don't understand is, how can anyone like Japanese Goku? Here you have the main character having a ton of flaws (we all know what they are), while FUNimation Goku is a goody two-shoes who never wants to fight unless its to protect his friends and/or the Earth, wants to get stronger so he will be able to beat whatever threatens the Earth next and is polite to people, a perfect main character. How can you not like FUNi Goku? In my honest opinion FUNimation did the greater good by changing Goku's character.

Because English Son is generic and a stereotype superhero.

Having flaws makes him more compelling to watch.

It makes him more like a real person, someone you can relate to or, so be it, cringe to.

[Kendamu]

They did substantially more alterations to Crayon Shin-chan, yet there was never as strong a reaction. The reason there'd be less people defending them is because there'd be general apathy. DBZ is put on a pedestal due to it's popularity.

Or maybe because they don't try to hide the fact that the dub script is a complete rewrite.

I'll give that sometimes they tend to terribly mix the "Japanese" marketing elements with the "Dub rewrite" stuff, but It's not like the Japanese option on their DVDs is inconveniently buried in as a difficult-to-grab Easter egg, or that they used dubtitle subs or a terrible subtitle translation.

Besides that, I don't even really see how that matters much. All that changes is how quickly the complaints start coming. It's not like openness somehow makes dub rewriting magically more or less ethical than it's considered.

I probably should've tried thinking of a more poignant example, but I can't think of any other series in particular that FUNi rewrote as much as they did Shin-chan.

I think a lot of the re-writing in that show has mainly to do with regular people (or even anime fans) not getting most of the humor or the humor being based on puns that don't work when translated. Dragon Ball Z doesn't have that excuse except in very few places. It's been proven by the Kai dub that doing a pretty straightforward translation of DBZ is very possible.

Whether it was ethical or not to change Shin-chan is not as straightforward as something that's much easier to translate like DBZ.

[Michsi]

horrible selfish gluttonous wifebeating bastard JP Goku

Funny, I thought I watched the same show in japanese.

the slavering way everybody but Vegeta fawns over him.

He is just in denial. What's the word.....tsundere? also, Vegeta happens to be one of the people who praise him the most

While I'm have only watched a small portion of the Funimation version of the show and agree that some changes were bad, I never got the impression that DBZ was mutated into something completely different. Maybe it's because I was already aware of the japanese Version and had already seen Dragon Ball in japanese and so I could tell where things had been altered.
I think I've mentioned it before, there might have been a risk that the culture shock might have turned some people off and it would not have had the same success. IIrc, the first time they aired Dragon Ball, it flunked and I'm pretty sure nobody would have tried again had DBZ not become as successful as it was.

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

IIrc, the first time they aired Dragon Ball, it flunked and I'm pretty sure nobody would have tried again had DBZ not become as successful as it was.

You're talking about the 1995 dub, right?

I've already pointed out earlier that it aired in the very early morning, a timeslot that INHERENTLY gets less views than an after-school timeslot, and believe that that is the biggest factor to DB's initial failure, not anything "overly Japanese" that may have been present. Which reminds me, wasn't that dub also Americanized to some degree (such as changing zeni to dollars)?

[Kibito_Kai]

you have to admit, the voice she uses for Goku--as an adult--is unnatural in the sense that there is no adult male that sounds like that. The English dub isn't the lone offender there, either...it should be worth noting that literally every single dub ever made for DBZ has Goku being voiced by an adult male....I'm just saiyan.'

You ever thought maybe Goku was never intended to be viewed as just another adult male? He was originally suppose to be Toriyama's version of the Monkey King.


As for Funimation stepping going to far with their alterations to the script, I don't mind it at all... because for me it was just another version of the show. I had the luxary of watching the entire series in it's original form. Put it this way.. it was my Dragonball Kai before there was ever a Dragonball Kai. having said that I can understand why purists would get annoyed.

[Michsi]

I've already pointed out earlier that it aired in the very early morning, a timeslot that INHERENTLY gets less views than an after-school timeslot, and believe that that is the biggest factor to DB's initial failure, not anything "overly Japanese" that may have been present. Which reminds me, wasn't that dub also Americanized to some degree (such as changing zeni to dollars)?

Yes, that might have been a factor but I doubt it the the only reason. The first episodes of DB aren't exactly everyone's cup of tea, what with Bulma peeing herself, nude scenes and Master Roshi, etc. I LOVE DB but if it hadn't been for the 22nd tournament and onward, I wouldn't have cared that much about the series.

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

The first episodes of DB aren't exactly everyone's cup of tea, what with Bulma peeing herself, nude scenes and Master Roshi, etc.

Well, come to think of it, according to Kanzentai's "Intended Endings" guide, the first arc wasn't that popular in Japan either, so I'll give you that.

However, I honestly believe that if it had aired in a more highly viewed timeslot, and had been allowed to continue past episode 13, it would have started to catch on, since it's more action-oriented in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc and later.

[Saiga]

While I agree that flaws are good, I feel like there's a pretty big disconnect between the horrible selfish gluttonous wifebeating bastard JP Goku is and the slavering way everybody but Vegeta fawns over him.

You mean the "horrible selfish gluttonous wifebeating bastard" Goku is in your headcanon.

[Gonstead]

Wifebeating, Haha!

That's more up Vegeta's alley and even then he doesnt resort to that.

[thedarkuniter]

I've already pointed out earlier that it aired in the very early morning, a timeslot that INHERENTLY gets less views than an after-school timeslot, and believe that that is the biggest factor to DB's initial failure, not anything "overly Japanese" that may have been present. Which reminds me, wasn't that dub also Americanized to some degree (such as changing zeni to dollars)?

Yes, that might have been a factor but I doubt it the the only reason. The first episodes of DB aren't exactly everyone's cup of tea, what with Bulma peeing herself, nude scenes and Master Roshi, etc. I LOVE DB but if it hadn't been for the 22nd tournament and onward, I wouldn't have cared that much about the series.

I would still love Dragon Ball even if its all about the crude humor. The first 13 episodes are so funny, then again, I'm a sucker for Dr. Slump's humor which is why I love the Majin Boo saga a lot.

[Akumaito Beam]

While I agree that flaws are good, I feel like there's a pretty big disconnect between the horrible selfish gluttonous wifebeating bastard JP Goku is and the slavering way everybody but Vegeta fawns over him.

Something I miss from the original Dragonball is everyone constantly getting sick of Goku's shit. Even his best buddy Kuririn has pretty often lapses of utter annoyance at Goku's goofy immaturity. If anyone does fawn over Goku it's mostly due to his strength as opposed to everyone calling him some super cool fabulous guy on the merits of his personality.

Son Goku has always been a Homer Simpson or Micheal Scott type character to me. He's really fun to watch but there's no way in hell I'd like to hang out with him if he actually existed.

[Rocketman]

You mean the "horrible selfish gluttonous wifebeating bastard" Goku is in your headcanon.

How many times do you get to break your wife's arm before you get called on it?

[Michsi]

How many times do you get to break your wife's arm before you get called on it?

Once, but when, you know, that's actually what you meant to do.

The only person in that relationship that used violence as an outlet was Chichi

[penguintruth]

Like Chi-Chi isn't violent herself.

[Rocketman]

He breaks her arm and she's the one at fault. Lovely.

[AgitoZ]

He breaks her arm and she's the one at fault. Lovely.

No one's saying that. Goku didn't mean to that anyways, and he's not known to do that. So calling him a "wifebeater" is just grasping at straws. You're station's here, please kindly get off the troll train.

Others are saying Chi-chi shows more signs of domestic abuse than Goku.

Also, what the hell does this all have to do with this thread?

[Rocketman]

No one's saying that. Goku didn't mean to that anyways

He backhanded her.