Firs of all, I'm pretty sure Piccolo and Gohan could still take care of him at that point. Or Toriyama would have given the fighters a way to deal with him.Vegeta being alive, for one. If Goku died, he would have just killed everybody else and been on his merry way.
Vegeta was knocking Gohan out of the way of attacks Piccolo couldn't even see.Michsi wrote:Firs of all, I'm pretty sure Piccolo and Gohan could still take care of him at that point.
And that's where his impressive power up moment stops. Piccolo, together with Krillin's and Gohan's help could knock away Freeza, which was still more than Vegeta accomplished IIrc.Vegeta was knocking Gohan out of the way of attacks Piccolo couldn't even see.
It felt out of place with the light hearted tone of the past few pages and while I didn't get the feeling his obsession was as intense as before, witnessing that animosity towards Goku reappear when it was that part of him that caused them so much problems in the very same arc, bothered me greatly. It's not like I expected him to stop trying to reach Goku's power, but I disliked seeing it again with what felt like a pinch of resentment. GT treated his character better than this ending from this pointof view.I think the idea is that even if Vegeta is still the same grump he always was, he's different, and his rivalry with Goku is much more friendly. I always interpreted that bit as less of a "I'm going to re-devote my whole life to beating you!" and more of a nostalgic, rather rueful, "Yeah, whatever. I'll get you yet."
He could knock away a Freeza who wasn't paying attention to him, big whoop. Kid Trunks knocks away the Fat Buu that's beating down Majin Vegeta too.Michsi wrote:And that's where his impressive power up moment stops. Piccolo, together with Krillin's and Gohan's help could knock away Freeza, which was still more than Vegeta accomplished IIrc.
If Vegeta's power was that much greater than everybody else's he would have managed more than that and Piccolo could not managed to do squat.He could knock away a Freeza who wasn't paying attention to him, big whoop.
Gohan's rage boost is a maybe, but the other Namekians would be useless.Michsi wrote:perhaps a bunch of angry namekians that would have probably loved nothing more than to add a helping hand.
Most likely.Also I repeat, if that would have been the end, than Vegeta would have either stayed dead or gotten killed again.
If he has to handle both Piccolo and angry Gohan than I'm pretty sure even a couple of namakians with a BP of 3000 would have been too much for him.Gohan's rage boost is a maybe, but the other Namekians would be useless.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I agree with you here. I too liked the Kanzenban ending better.Wha-?? I though the extra add-ons in the Kanzenban where perfect (no pun intended). Goku giving Oob the Kinto Un as a way of showing he's really passing down the torch was genius IMO.
I also like the narration box better in the Kanzenban where it basically says "There will be more challenges and opponents to overcome but it'll be okay because earth has some incredible guys" over the Tankobon's "Don't worry if these idiots fuck up again the Dragon Balls will make everything normal again. Derp!"
And what really made the Kanzenban ending awesome IMO was giving the final line of the series to Vegeta: "Sooner or later, Kakarrot, I WILL show you defeat... Hmph!"
All these years and Vegeta still wants to defeat Goku. Will he ever learn?
Some (most?) people consider Namek and Freeza to be one arc. Some people even go further and combine the Saiyan and Freeza arcs into one--probably because of the connection between them that you've mentioned. So maybe it's a matter of personal perspective that the later arcs aren't as connected.kemuri07 wrote:I am also of the belief that the perfect ending to DBZ would have been the end of the Freeza arc. Within the entirety of the first three arcs (Saiyan, Namek, Freeza) there's a connection between each of them that really isn't apparent in either the Cell or Buu saga.
I only separate the two because that's how I viewed it when I was a child: The Saiyan and Namek saga each comprised a single season, and Funimation's intial dub of the Freeza saga is the third season. But, I agree with the latter option--it's all one big story arc, and I do believe that the ending would have been significantly stronger had it ended with Goku defeating Freeza.Bussani wrote:Some (most?) people consider Namek and Freeza to be one arc. Some people even go further and combine the Saiyan and Freeza arcs into one--probably because of the connection between them that you've mentioned. So maybe it's a matter of personal perspective that the later arcs aren't as connected.kemuri07 wrote:I am also of the belief that the perfect ending to DBZ would have been the end of the Freeza arc. Within the entirety of the first three arcs (Saiyan, Namek, Freeza) there's a connection between each of them that really isn't apparent in either the Cell or Buu saga.
Hugely agree with this. To add Goku also becomes the legendary SSJ.kemuri07 wrote:I am also of the belief that the perfect ending to DBZ would have been the end of the Freeza arc. Within the entirety of the first three arcs (Saiyan, Namek, Freeza) there's a connection between each of them that really isn't apparent in either the Cell or Buu saga.
1. Goku and Company encounter Raditz who explains Goku's origins. Goku is killed in battle, and Piccolo takes Goku's son, Gohan, to train. Vegeta and Nappa intercept a conversation between Piccolo and a dying Raditz, learning of the Dragon Balls existence.
2. The Saiyans arrive on earth, killing most of the defending Z warriors. Goku returns from his training in Heaven, and engages both Nappa and Vegeta. Goku is heavily wounded, and Vegeta retreats to heal himself. The surviving gang head out to Namek in order to resurrect their dead friends.
3. Krillin and Gohan arrive on Namek, however, they run into Freeza, who was responsible for the extinction of the Saiyans. Vegeta also arrives on Namek in order to gain the Dragonballs for his own needs.
4. After a deadly game of cat and mouse, Krillan, Gohan, and Vegeta finally face-off against Freeza. Later, Goku takes on Freeza and by becoming the Legendary Super Saiyan, is able to defeat Freeza.
On its own, the first three arcs work as a movie within themselves--complete with a beginning, middle, and end. More importantly, Goku goes through a specific character arc during this period. Whereas Goku's entire arc in DB is about him becoming the strongest on earth, Goku's arc in DBZ is a bit more complex: He proves that a lower-class Saiyan can beat the odds, and manages to avenge his entire race. Goku defeating Freeza, while ultimately perishing during the battle, would have made for a bittersweet, but powerful ending.
Thinking about it now, Goku isn't the only one that comes full-circle within these arcs:
Gohan - Starts out as the complete opposite of Goku--meek and mild--yet ends the Freeza saga as a far more confident and fierce warrior.
Piccolo - Piccolo begins as an antagonist, yet slowly develops feelings for the Earth, as well as serving as a "father-figure" (though I do love the fact that TFS makes a good point to comment how Goku is essentially absent in Gohan's life) for Gohan. More importantly, Piccolo realizes his identity and his place in the world.
. I agree. The thought honestly makes me uncomfortable. There's too much good stuff in the other arcs.Drayenko wrote:When I think about DB ending in the Freeza saga... it's just eww. I don't like it. It's too dark for DB, I just can't imagine Goku staying dead... it just Death Note all over again
Would it have been a "great idea?" Yes, but probably for another manga, I mean DB is Shonen not Seinen... whatever.
No. I know he is above Piccolo in strength ( though I'm convinced not by much, given that Goku also thought it might have been Piccolo that killed Freeza) and you cleary forgot Gohan. With Piccolo and a rage-boosted Gohan, he'd be clearly overwhelmed. Might as well been the reason, why he didn't start killing around in the first place.Also, Vegeta would totally massacre everyone left alive. No contest. He's above Piccolo, who is above 1,000,000 so Namekians at 3,000 would be worth shit. They'd be a liability.
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