Dragon Ball Z's ending

[DBZ Mick]

When I think about DB ending in the Freeza saga... it's just eww. I don't like it. It's too dark for DB, I just can't imagine Goku staying dead... it just Death Note all over again .

Would it have been a "great idea?" Yes, but probably for another manga, I mean DB is Shonen not Seinen... whatever.

I agree with Rocketman.

Like I mentioned above...

Personally, I see how it ends at the end of the Freeza as being fine.

Vegeta leaves Earth to find Goku and what they do is up to our imagination.

There's too much good stuff in the other arcs.

I think there is good stuff too but there is a somewhat decline in quality and storytelling...

*The Jinzoningen are a joke. They don't do anything that makes them a threat- for pete's sake they practically beg to be beaten and go joy riding in that van. Maybe if they were more like their future counterparts.
* The Super Saiyan legend is ripped to shreds when anybody can become one
* Gohan's whole pacifist attitude to Cell before becoming SSJ2. What happened to the Gohan from the Saiyan-Freeza arcs...
* Vegeta in general until his Boo arc redemption
* The human characters get pushed to the side
* Toriyama's humour is either lacking in the whole Jinzoningen/Cell arcs or it's a bit over-indulgent in parts of the Boo arc.

[Saiga]

Oh, please. The human characters (sans Kurilin) were pushed to the side in the Namek saga for cripes sake. And all they did in the Saiyan saga was get killed. The super saiyan legend is only a legend. Yeah, I didn't like his pacifist attitude either but SS2 Gohan makes up for it. And the reason the androids are a joke is because Toriyama's former editor kept making him change the villain around.

After the Freeza arc things start getting real good, and Boo arc is where it's at its best.

[Rocketman]

After the Freeza arc things slide downhill so fast you can't believe it. Only Vegetto stands above the ocean of crap.

[DBZ Mick]

After the Freeza arc things start getting real good, and Boo arc is where it's at its best.

I like the Boo arc, but to say it's the best, that would be pushing it.

The human characters (sans Kurilin) were pushed to the side in the Namek saga for cripes sake.

Yes. But they still had their moments to shine- especially in Dragonball.

Well except Yamucha, poor Yamucha, wish Toriyama gave the guy some kind of break...

And the reason the androids are a joke is because Toriyama's former editor kept making him change the villain around.

True enough, but that's how things are.

Yeah, I didn't like his pacifist attitude either but SS2 Gohan makes up for it

While I also like SSJ2 Gohan, I kinda find the whole fight anti-climatic. At least with Freeza, it was unpredictable, but with Cell it was all Gohan was just whopping him (although it was cool to see Cell so afraid of a 9 year old kid).

The super saiyan legend is only a legend.

One that was well set-up and executed.


Think we are dragging this off-topic... maybe another thread should be created to discuss this further (especially as I really am very much over-due a refreshing of both Cell/Jinzōningen and Boo arcs- especially ones accurately translated but I'm getting the rest of the manga for Christmas)

[hleV]

it was cool to see Cell so afraid of a 9 year old kid

Physically 11-year-old, officially 10-year old kid.

[Saiga]

It's all subjective whether the quality improved or declined, but the Freeza arc was my least favorite arc overall.

And the humans didn't get ANY moment to shine in Saiyan/Freeza arcs, Tenshinhan got one in the Cell arc though. Even in Dragon Ball Kurilin only really had moments to shine, except for Tenshinhan's first appearance. The humans getting the shaft isn't even exclusive to Z.

I really wouldn't care much for DBZ if it ended at the Freeza saga, to me, the Cell and Boo Arcs are absolutely essential.

And yes, this is getting quite off topic.

EDIT: I'm also getting the manga for Christmas, what a coincidence.

[DBZ Mick]

Physically 11-year-old, officially 10-year old kid.

Wouldn't he physically be 10 based on being in the Room of Spirit and Time but in the proper reality of things 9? The Boo saga confirms he's 16.

Isn't the whole being 11 is a dub or filler screw-up?

[Saiga]

Physically 11-year-old, officially 10-year old kid.

Wouldn't he physically be 10 based on being in the Room of Spirit and Time but in the proper reality of things 9? The Boo saga confirms he's 16.

Isn't the whole being 11 is a dub or filler screw-up?

Yes, yes and yes.

[hleV]

Physically 11-year-old, officially 10-year old kid.

Wouldn't he physically be 10 based on being in the Room of Spirit and Time but in the proper reality of things 9? The Boo saga confirms he's 16.

Isn't the whole being 11 is a dub or filler screw-up?

Yes, yes and yes.

No, there's an age guide by Herms, I believe. Gohan officially is 16 at the beginning of the Boo arc, but a month (or so) later, during the tournament, he's 17 already (and physically 18).

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Old post of mine:

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai held May 7th, Age 756
Gohan is conceived late July/early August, Age 756
Gohan is born very early May, Age 757
Gohan turns 1 in early May, Age 758
Gohan turns 2 in early May, Age 759
Gohan turns 3 in early May, Age 760
Gohan turns 4 in early May, Age 761
Raditz invades Earth on November 28th, 761
Gohan turns 5 in early May, Age 762
Vegeta and Nappa arrive on Earth on November 3, 762 Age
Everyone lands on Namek on December 18th, 762 Age
Almost everyone lives through Namek's destruction on December 24th, 762 Age
Gohan turns 6 in early May, Age 763
Kuririn and Yamcha are revived on May 3rd, Age 763
Tenshinhan and Chaozu are revived on September 10th, Age 763
Gohan turns 7 in early May, Age 764
Goku returns to Earth in August, Age 764
Gohan turns 8 in early May, Age 765
Gohan turns 9 in early May, Age 766
Gohan turns 10 in early May, Age 767
The 24th Tenkaichi Budoukai is held on May 7th, Age 767
The Jinzoningen appear on May 12th, Age 767
Goku and Gohan enter the RoSaT for less than 24 hours (a year inside) on May 16th, Age 767
Gohan exists the RoSaT still at age 10 on May 17th, Age 767, but is closer to age 12 physically
The Cell Games are held on May 26th, Age 767
Gohan turns 11 in early May, Age 768, but is closer to age 12 physically
Gohan turns 12 in early May, Age 769, but is closer to age 13 physically
Gohan turns 13 in early May, Age 770, but is closer to age 14 physically
Gohan turns 14 in early May, Age 771, but is closer to age 15 physically
Gohan turns 15 in early May, Age 772, but is closer to age 16 physically
Gohan turns 16 in early May, Age 773, but is closer to age 17 physically
Gohan enters Orange Star High and has wacky adventures with Videl as Saiyaman during April, Age 774
Gohan turns 17 in early May, Age 774, but is closer to age 18 physically
The 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai is held on May 7th, Age 774
Buu is released and builds a house on May 7th, Age 774
Satan befriends Buu and Gotenks ego is born May 8th, Age 774
Vegetto decides killing Buu is too boring and defuses of his own free will, Buu blows shit up and then dies due to an infection of Vegetto's invincible ki on May 9th, Age 774

*** I would like to note that this age progression list still works with the Daizenshuu's October 12th date for Raditz' arrival, for those who want to deal with the books printed facts (wrong as they may be). But, as Herms has said, that date is impossible according to the manga's narration of Nappa and Vegeta arriving before a year has passed, so I used his fixed date from the "Stronger Loving Timeline".

[Saiga]

I like how you have the line about Gohan having wacky adventures with Videl.

[dbboxkaifan]

Personally, I see how it ends at the end of the Freeza as being fine.

Dimps game Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit included two endings (films/videos), one on how the DBZ series would end with the Freeza arc and the other with Cell's arc.

Special BL 1 Video - Freeza: http://youtu.be/xi6j3656ljc
Special BL 2 Video - Cell: http://youtu.be/4Fd49G86v9U

I loved the Freeza arc and wished DBZ/DBK would've ended with such, but after seeing Kai's going with Cell I can't complain 'cos I really like it now.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Frankly, whereas I once felt cheated by the ending of DB, I think it's a somewhat acceptable ending. It characterizes Goku's ever-present longing for new challenges and it doesn't seem out-of-character for him to just nonchalantly leave his family and fly off with this random kid. I don't like the Kanzenban ending, because 1) with the Kinto'un part, it makes it out that Oob is Goku's successor, when we previously had that comment by Vegeta saying something like, "I know you, Goku. This isn't about protecting the Earth", followed by Goku asking Oob to promise him to fight him one day, which confirms Vegeta's suspicious. And 2) it completely shits on Vegeta's character development that had been built up ever since the late Cell arc, with him stealing Toriyama's goodbye message with a strongly Cell arc-Vegeta statement of "I will defeat you someday, Kakarrot. Hmph."

The only thing I like about the Kanzenban ending is rewriting the thing about them relying on the Dragon Balls to help the Earth to relying on themselves and their power to help the Earth. Something like that.

I think that, despite the Freeza arc seeming at face-value like a nice ending, with Vegeta's dying speech, Goku becoming the legendary Super Saiyan, the whole circle deal of killing the reason he was sent to Earth in the first place and then ending up dying in Namek's explosion, it would've been a pretty crappy ending and it wouldn't have tied up any loose ends. Most importantly, the build-up of Gohan and his potential that would eventually culminate in the Cell arc.

The Cell arc would've been a pretty piss-poor ending too. Leaving Gohan as the new hero is terrible because he's just not a fighter, and it's also right after he's already proved how terrible is by getting his father killed and still having to rely on Goku to finish off Cell. I'm not being biased, but the best successor to Goku would be Piccolo, because he's not an Earthling or a Saiyan, but he still cares about fighting. He's not going to stop training because he wants a normal life, he's not going to obsess over training hybrid kids who don't have nearly as much heart for battle as him to force him to be his successors and he's not going to let the bad guy get stronger and kill millions of innocents for the sake of a good fight.

The Boo arc ending isn't great, but I think it patches things up better than the Freeza and Boo arcs. And without the Cell and Boo arcs, I doubt DB would be any near as popular as it is now.

[Drayenko]

And I totally agree... well, I don't know about the popularity, it was supposed to be really famous by the Freeza arc in Japan (right?), but I don't know how it would have affected it worldwide...

[DBZ Mick]

it would've been a pretty crappy ending and it wouldn't have tied up any loose ends

What loose ends?

Piccolo finds redemption
Goku's arc is complete
Gohan grows to be a strong willed little boy

Vegeta perhaps still with his desire of becoming a SSJ goes out looking for Goku.

The rest get wished back alive.

Everyone lives happily ever after.

[Saiga]

Piccolo as Goku's successor is honestly a terrible idea. Piccolo becoming the guardian instead of Dende would be more fitting, but not directly Goku's successor.

[GreggMays64]

Freeza was my favorite ending by far. But I love the way DBGT ends the Dragon Ball story more than DBZ simply because it is almost like the Namek arc. Goku becomes the legendary Super Saiyan (Super Saiyan 4), the final villain is a guy who has something to do with the show and not someone who wants revenge on Goku over a different arc, the end has it up to the viewers to decide whether or not Goku is dead, and best of all Goku after like almost 100 years is left as a legend of some kind. Dragon Ball has always been about the life of Goku and the people around him. The way DBGT ended it made it seem like Goku was a meaningful person who had a meaningful life of some kind.

[Michsi]

I might be biased here too, but I agree about Piccolo fitting the role of main protector of earth better, though I wouldn't use the word succesor either.

As Piccolo Daimao stated, his dedicateded enough to fighting, but he also more level headed and commonsensical than Goku. (Guardian would have been a terrible idea, for the same reason he didn't want to leave with the other namekians, he hated such a peacefull, boring life and he didn't even consider it after he fused with Kami)

But this would be a purely logical choice. Gohan is also a sentimental choice, being Goku's son and all and the word succesor fits here better. Yes, he isn't that crazy about fighting, but I believe it was the Cell Saga that cemented the notion that the kid dislikes it and the Buu Saga where we see that he isn't dedicated to this lifestyle at all.
However, if the story would have ended with the Freeza saga, Gohan taking up Goku's place would have been believable.

[Piccolo Daimao]

it would've been a pretty crappy ending and it wouldn't have tied up any loose ends

What loose ends?

Piccolo finds redemption
Goku's arc is complete
Gohan grows to be a strong willed little boy

Vegeta perhaps still with his desire of becoming a SSJ goes out looking for Goku.

The rest get wished back alive.

Everyone lives happily ever after.

I explained why. Gohan's potential would've been built up, only to not go anywhere and culminate in a later arc, as we see in the Cell arc. And if the Freeza arc had concluded the series with Vegeta still alive, that would've been even worse. You'd have a non-reformed past villain either knocking about Earth with no objective other than whine about Goku being dead and getting to defeat Freeza as the Super Saiyan, or he'd just blow up Earth and fly into space to do whatever.

[Rocketman]

I explained why. Gohan's potential would've been built up, only to not go anywhere

Being able to knock Freeza around 13 months after Raditz doesn't count?

Goku trumped Gohan's potential by becoming the unbeatable Super Saiyan anyways.