Series-specific or language-specific?

[Li'l Lemmy]

While listening through the Japanese track, sometimes we'll hear a character "double" something in the same sentence.

Example Simmons translation: "That was close, that was close!"

Ah, damn. I know there's more examples than just that one, but I can't think of any at the moment . . . but all the same, it I suppose it doesn't hurt to ask the Japanese-speaking populace: Is this merely something that's just "normal" in Dragonball, or is it a quirk of the Japanese language itself?


(Li'l Lemmy, who wants to learn the language someday when he has more time.)

[kenisu3000]

It seems from my experience to be a common Japanese thing to double phrases in the same sentence. "Warii warii" ("Sorry, sorry") is one example, or maybe "Ii zo ii zo" ("Good, good")... we do that often too if you think about it (like saying "okay, okay" when trying to calm a person down), but I will admit the Japanese have some of the weirdest-sounding double-phrases...

[Bejiita]

Or 'zuutto', Gotenks sais this to Buu when he comes out of the Time chamber as SSJ3 and he's saying he's much, much stronger than before. He says zuuto about 4 times.

Or when he says 'Ora ora ora Majin Buu!' As in 'Hey hey hey(or 'oi')'.

Or 'hai hai!'

[Li'l Lemmy]

It seems from my experience to be a common Japanese thing to double phrases in the same sentence. "Warii warii" ("Sorry, sorry") is one example, or maybe "Ii zo ii zo" ("Good, good")... we do that often too if you think about it (like saying "okay, okay" when trying to calm a person down), but I will admit the Japanese have some of the weirdest-sounding double-phrases...

So there they are. I knew that there were other ones that just I wasn't thinking of . . . and the worst part is, I've begun to inadvertently double things myself in everyday conversation. People in my house are starting to wonder.

Or 'zuutto', Gotenks sais this to Buu when he comes out of the Time chamber as SSJ3 and he's saying he's much, much stronger than before. He says zuuto about 4 times.

Or when he says 'Ora ora ora Majin Buu!' As in 'Hey hey hey(or 'oi')'.

Or 'hai hai!'

I noticed that! I heard him use the "zuutto" word three or four times when he was bragging about how strong he'd become, and when I listened to the arrangement of his sentence compared to how Mr. Simmons translates it into English ("incredibly incredibly incredibly" near the end of the translation, whereas "zuutto zuutto zuutto" is towards the start of Gotenks' sentence), it made me realize just how different Japanese grammar must be from ours. It fascinates me, to a degree.

EDIT: Bejita, somehow you made me think of Gotenks and his Ultra Boo Boo Attack. I think that scene was hilarious.

Gotenks: Here goes, dearie!
Piccolo: Ha-ai!

[Jerseymilk]

XDDDDDDDDDDDD I loved that part. Poor Piccolo had his dignity handed to him on a platter all during that fight.

[Bejiita]

It's the smile Piccolo has on his face when he says it!

It cracked me up.

And the Japanese grammar is quite confusing, but isn't any other foreign language with word placements different to English?

Things in Japanese are said the other way around, so if you were, for example, looking for a control pad we would say 'where is the pad?' with 'pad' being at the end, in Japanese it would be 'pad wa doko desu ka', which is roughly 'the pad where is?, so translated to make sense, the words get spun around for us to be read easier, like the part you reffered to about 'zuutto'.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Things in Japanese are said the other way around, so if you were, for example, looking for a control pad we would say 'where is the pad?' with 'pad' being at the end, in Japanese it would be 'pad wa doko desu ka', which is roughly 'the pad where is?, so translated to make sense, the words get spun around for us to be read easier, like the part you reffered to about 'zuutto'.

I could be mistaking an intermediate ability for something more, but you appear fairly knowledgeable in the mechanics of Japanese grammar and pronounciation, Bejita. Do you even need the friggin' subtitles to watch DBZ?

Somewhere between on-topic and off-topic: I think I'll take advantage of the apparent skill of everyone who has posted so far and use this opportunity to bring up another aspect of the language I can't seem to grasp: Why is it that sometimes we'll hear the Japanese senyu speaking in English? I know some of the attacks are spoken in English simply because it's fun or "cool" (according to EX), but what about when a character will insert random English into a sentence for no reason?

An example would be just after SSJ2 Gohan swoops in to deflect a blast Cell had thrown towards Vegeta. When Cell notices Gohan's bleeding arm, he says something that Daimao translates into . . .

"Well, well, well . . . this is an unexpected harvest."

Except that we clearly hear Cell open the sentence with the English pronounciation of "well," which I'm pretty sure has its own Japanese counterpart. When I first heard that, it left me with a WTF?! reaction. Perhaps it goes by the same token of being cool?

(EX, feel free to point out if I'm swinging the conversation in an inappropriate direction. My goal was to avoid cluttering the board with another language thread too similar to this one.)

[B-kun]

Because.. it's cool. And generally neat to see and hear (hell, in the Sailor V manga, there's a panel where Minako yells "BUT!!" in English letters.

I don't think there's an actual REASON, other than it's generally cool to see and hear. If you watch sentai seies, they use a LOT of English (In "Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger", "nonsense", "Change Standby!", "Roger!", "Got you!", etc. are common. And the narrator (Piccolo's seiyuu, no less) uses GREAT English when doing the "S.P.D! Special Police Dekaranger!" thing and giving the ep titles)

... My goodness, it appears I babbled.

[Bejiita]

Things in Japanese are said the other way around, so if you were, for example, looking for a control pad we would say 'where is the pad?' with 'pad' being at the end, in Japanese it would be 'pad wa doko desu ka', which is roughly 'the pad where is?, so translated to make sense, the words get spun around for us to be read easier, like the part you reffered to about 'zuutto'.

I could be mistaking an intermediate ability for something more, but you appear fairly knowledgeable in the mechanics of Japanese grammar and pronounciation, Bejita. Do you even need the friggin' subtitles to watch DBZ?

Somewhere between on-topic and off-topic: I think I'll take advantage of the apparent skill of everyone who has posted so far and use this opportunity to bring up another aspect of the language I can't seem to grasp: Why is it that sometimes we'll hear the Japanese senyu speaking in English? I know some of the attacks are spoken in English simply because it's fun or "cool" (according to EX), but what about when a character will insert random English into a sentence for no reason?

An example would be just after SSJ2 Gohan swoops in to deflect a blast Cell had thrown towards Vegeta. When Cell notices Gohan's bleeding arm, he says something that Daimao translates into . . .

"Well, well, well . . . this is an unexpected harvest."

Except that we clearly hear Cell open the sentence with the English pronounciation of "well," which I'm pretty sure has its own Japanese counterpart. When I first heard that, it left me with a WTF?! reaction. Perhaps it goes by the same token of being cool?

(EX, feel free to point out if I'm swinging the conversation in an inappropriate direction. My goal was to avoid starting a too-similar language thread.)

Many times you'll hear the Japanese VA's say things in English, I would say this is just for the fun of it. Or because Toriyama actually wrote it in the manga. Many times you'll hear 'Let's Go!' or Goku might say 'Sankyuu!!' (or in English 'Thank you!').

Even Kaio-Sama says 'Beri beri naissu ga!' (Very very nice!) after Goku beats Buu, and one of the funniest ones I've heard(not that they are intended to be funny, but to me it's is funny!) is the first appearance of Roshi when he jumps of the Turtle and says 'Good afternoon!'. Or when Goku's on he's way to Namekand he pulls out a drink from the freezer and says 'Bulma's dad's Sport Drink!'

Even in the Great Saiyaman saga in the High School the blond teacher with glasses is clearly reading in English from the text book, I actually thought when she'd make Gohan stand up and read we'd hear him speak in English, but he didn't...

Oh, and I'm not really some fluent Japanese speaker, I just know a few bits and bobs.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Because.. it's cool. And generally neat to see and hear (hell, in the Sailor V manga, there's a panel where Minako yells "BUT!!" in English letters.

I don't think there's an actual REASON, other than it's generally cool to see and hear. If you watch sentai seies, they use a LOT of English (In "Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger", "nonsense", "Change Standby!", "Roger!", "Got you!", etc. are common. And the narrator (Piccolo's seiyuu, no less) uses GREAT English when doing the "S.P.D! Special Police Dekaranger!" thing and giving the ep titles)

I didn't understand the reasoning for it (though apparently there isn't any), but I did think it was cool to hear DBZ characters pepper their dialogue with occasional English, particularly with the Japanese "accent" I pick up now and then . . . or is that just me?

... My goodness, it appears I babbled.

What, are you kidding me? B-kun, kindly look to the post above your own.


Oh, and . . .

Many times you'll hear the Japanese VA's say things in English, I would say this is just for the fun of it. Or because Toriyama actually wrote it in the manga. Many times you'll hear 'Let's Go!' or Goku might say 'Sankyuu!!' (or in English 'Thank you!').

So we have something of a concensus, then: It's just for fun. Well, what better reason could there be for a series whose existence is based upon the very same reasoning?

I don't have any manga, but I've seen a few pages with English thrown here and there in spots. It seems Toriyama-sensei did have a penchant for sticking in words of a foreign language into his comic, and apparently even that was carried over the the anime. Though when I first saw English in DBZ, I thought it was something FUNimation was doing to make the viewers "less confused".

Oh, and I'm not really some fluent Japanese speaker, I just know a few bits and bobs.

Could've fooled me!

[Bejiita]

Because.. it's cool. And generally neat to see and hear (hell, in the Sailor V manga, there's a panel where Minako yells "BUT!!" in English letters.

I don't think there's an actual REASON, other than it's generally cool to see and hear. If you watch sentai seies, they use a LOT of English (In "Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger", "nonsense", "Change Standby!", "Roger!", "Got you!", etc. are common. And the narrator (Piccolo's seiyuu, no less) uses GREAT English when doing the "S.P.D! Special Police Dekaranger!" thing and giving the ep titles)

I didn't understand the reasoning for it (though apparently there isn't any), but I did think it was cool to hear DBZ characters pepper their dialogue with occasional English, particularly with the Japanese "accent" I pick up now and then . . . or is that just me?

... My goodness, it appears I babbled.

What, are you kidding me? B-kun, kindly look to the post above your own.


Oh, and . . .

Many times you'll hear the Japanese VA's say things in English, I would say this is just for the fun of it. Or because Toriyama actually wrote it in the manga. Many times you'll hear 'Let's Go!' or Goku might say 'Sankyuu!!' (or in English 'Thank you!').

So we have something of a concensus, then: It's just for fun. Well, what better reason could there be for a series whose existence is based upon the very same reasoning?

I don't have any manga, but I've seen a few pages with English thrown here and there in spots. It seems Toriyama-sensei did have a penchant for sticking in words of a foreign language into his comic, and apparently even that was carried over the the anime. Though when I first saw English in DBZ, I thought it was something FUNimation was doing to make the viewers "less confused".

Oh, and I'm not really some fluent Japanese speaker, I just know a few bits and bobs.

Could've fooled me!

Heh heh...I do know the Hiragana and Katakana alphabets, the only way I figured out learing Kanji was by memorising the Kanji used in songs like Dan Dan, and even the Japanese Pokemon openings helped me back in the day. I actually learned that Japanese wasn't all that hard to learn when I found the Kana alphabet as another option to my name my Chao on my Dreamcast memory card(was it a VHU or something?) and started learning letters.

I don't know why Funimation do not usually used the the same words when it is said as English in the original. Mainly on the last episode, I don;t even remember what Goku said on the dub but just as he gets he's power back from the 3rd wish, just before he repels it he says 'Thank You, Dragonballs'. He didn't say it in the dub though...

[Li'l Lemmy]

Heh heh...I do know the Hiragana and Katakana alphabets, the only way I figured out learing Kanji was by memorising the Kanji used in songs like Dan Dan, and even the Japanese Pokemon openings helped me back in the day. I actually learned that Japanese wasn't all that hard to learn when I found the Kana alphabet as another option to my name my Chao on my Dreamcast memory card(was it a VHU or something?) and started learning letters.

So there's different "alphabets," then. You say it isn't all that hard to learn, but I can't imagine having to learn and understand more than one alphapet for a single language . . . but then, I haven't ever tried, either. Could you elaborate on the necessity of multiple alphabets? Am I right in assuming that there's something along the lines of a "beginner's" alphabet, and that the others could be more advanced versions for the more experienced? . . . or do I have it all wrong?

Kanji in Dan Dan? You mean those symbols that pop up all over the place during the GT intro? You memorized all of them?!

I don't know why Funimation do not usually used the the same words when it is said as English in the original. Mainly on the last episode, I don;t even remember what Goku said on the dub but just as he gets he's power back from the 3rd wish, just before he repels it he says 'Thank You, Dragonballs'. He didn't say it in the dub though...

The dub line? Something along the lines of. "Woo-hoo! It's back, I can feel it! Thanks guys . . . wow."

[Mr. Robot]

Three alphabets:

Katakana--Used for foreign words, company names, and for emphasis.

Hiragana--Used for certain words, verb and adjective endings, etc.

Kanji--used for most verbs, adjectives and nouns.

Kanji are not really an "alphabet"--they are literally chinese characters. If you have ever seen chinese, you know that their words are pictures which have pronunciations not apparent from the written form.

Some Japanese texts, notably comics (including Dragon Ball) do however have little hiragana over kanji, called furigana, indicating correct pronunciation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know a lot of Japanese.

[Bejiita]

Heh heh...I do know the Hiragana and Katakana alphabets, the only way I figured out learing Kanji was by memorising the Kanji used in songs like Dan Dan, and even the Japanese Pokemon openings helped me back in the day. I actually learned that Japanese wasn't all that hard to learn when I found the Kana alphabet as another option to my name my Chao on my Dreamcast memory card(was it a VHU or something?) and started learning letters.

So there's different "alphabets," then. You say it isn't all that hard to learn, but I can't imagine having to learn and understand more than one alphapet for a single language . . . but then, I haven't ever tried, either. Could you elaborate on the necessity of multiple alphabets? Am I right in assuming that there's something along the lines of a "beginner's" alphabet, and that the others could be more advanced versions for the more experienced? . . . or do I have it all wrong?

Kanji in Dan Dan? You mean those symbols that pop up all over the place during the GT intro? You memorized all of them?!

I don't know why Funimation do not usually used the the same words when it is said as English in the original. Mainly on the last episode, I don;t even remember what Goku said on the dub but just as he gets he's power back from the 3rd wish, just before he repels it he says 'Thank You, Dragonballs'. He didn't say it in the dub though...

The dub line? Something along the lines of. "Woo-hoo! It's back, I can feel it! Thanks guys . . . wow."

Most of the symbols in Dan Dan are Hiragana, with some Kanji put in there, any Kanji in the song will have smaller letters in Hiragana above it for the kids that don't know the symbol.

There are over 2000 Kanji or something like that, so learning it is a joke, unless you are actually going to move to Japan.

Examples, ok, Saiya-Jin I don't have a tool to view Japanese text on this PC, so I'll use this movie 10 poster...



Now in the yellow box i made it says 'Saiya', this is Katakana, the easy elphabet, next to it in the red one says 'Jin', this may look simple enough, but it is a Kanji symbol, probably one of the easiest, or Ichi(one) is easier maybe. It means People, person or man. The next yellow box is more Katakana or reads 'Burorii', or in other words, Brolli.

This is how the basic layout of the 2 alphabets are, this is the Hiragana one, so it's harder than the Katakana (kana for short). Notice the Japanese language doesn't use certain letters, like V, which is why Vegeta is called Bejiita. The letter 'f' is actually kind of said as an 'h', that's why sometimes when you hear 'Freeza' it's sounds a bit like 'huuriiza'. It is pronounced without putting your lower teeth against your lower lip. Also, 'n' is said without touching the roof of your mouth with your toungue, that's why when you hear Gohan yell Piccolo-San, it sound like piccolo saa! They sort of silence the n. And don't foget there is no letter 'L', R'' is used instead, eg. Piccolo, Pikkoro.

[El_Diablo]

It's a little bit more complicated than that, but essentially correct

[gogetaSS]

I don't understand why the Japanese don't abolish Kanji, it just makes life harder for everyone writing and learning it. If you are translating something DB related though, just have a Hirigana and Katakana list to hand, put everything together and you can mostly guess what character it is. And remember that "ー" makes a long vowel sound, eg. Be- ji - ta / Be - jee - ta.

[El_Diablo]

Because then they'd have a lot of words with exactly the same sounds and no way to tell them apart.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Actually, Bejiita, you can make a V with an U and a small a, i, u, e, or o.