Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Perfect · Post by **Perfect** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:45 am

Piccolo Daimao wrote:I doubt it was in Toriyama's mind to draw connections between Boo curing the little boy's blindness and Jesus, and I don't draw connections to it either. And even if that were the case, doesn't it look weird comparing a magical demon who causes death and destruction to the founder of Christianity?

And I thought the Dabra thing was obvious. Although red skin, horns, fangs, tail and strange powers are common features of the stereotypical Devil design in not just Christianity, but other religions as well (correct me if I'm wrong).

If I recall correctly, the demon/devil staple pretty much evolved from Judaism and Christianity; the staple being the stereotypical image we see. However, that's not to say either of those religions invented the sentient, because they didn't. It's merely just that image that's evolved from those two belief systems that's become a worldwide view for the most part. Whether or not Toriyama was actually referencing to Satan or just what he'd think a demon king would look like is anyone's guess, but I wouldn't scowl at anyone for making that assumption; given how plausible/possible it is.

Eire · Post by **Eire** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:47 am

Meanwhile in Japan
Apart from position of Buddhism in Japan I was explained that Christianity is for Japanese pop-culture like Buddhism for Western. The source of cool words and motives that can make sick if taken seriously.

Also didn't Goku and Chi-Chi have a wedding ceremony in church? That would be plausible, since Western-style are more popular and cheaper than traditional Japanese ones.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:08 pm

Perfect wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:I doubt it was in Toriyama's mind to draw connections between Boo curing the little boy's blindness and Jesus, and I don't draw connections to it either. And even if that were the case, doesn't it look weird comparing a magical demon who causes death and destruction to the founder of Christianity?

And I thought the Dabra thing was obvious. Although red skin, horns, fangs, tail and strange powers are common features of the stereotypical Devil design in not just Christianity, but other religions as well (correct me if I'm wrong).
If I recall correctly, the demon/devil staple pretty much evolved from Judaism and Christianity; the staple being the stereotypical image we see. However, that's not to say either of those religions invented the sentient, because they didn't. It's merely just that image that's evolved from those two belief systems that's become a worldwide view for the most part. Whether or not Toriyama was actually referencing to Satan or just what he'd think a demon king would look like is anyone's guess, but I wouldn't scowl at anyone for making that assumption; given how plausible/possible it is.

Oh, OK. Thanks for the information. I guess I just assumed that those common features of the stereotypical Devil design were present in other religions.

Eire wrote:Also didn't Goku and Chi-Chi have a wedding ceremony in church? That would be plausible, since Western-style are more popular and cheaper than traditional Japanese ones.

I'm not sure about Eastern countries, but in Western countries, many non-religious people get married in church on the basis of cultural tradition seperate from religion.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:05 am

Piccolo Daimao wrote:
Eire wrote:Also didn't Goku and Chi-Chi have a wedding ceremony in church? That would be plausible, since Western-style are more popular and cheaper than traditional Japanese ones.
I'm not sure about Eastern countries, but in Western countries, many non-religious people get married in church on the basis of cultural tradition seperate from religion.

Other then western clothes, they had wedding outside on meadow...... We also didn't saw anyone who wed them, so who knows.

Yeah, Daimao is right. Marriage in church is classic, as it have tradition at atmosphere. But because the divorce rate is pretty high nowadays and weddings under Church are difficult with administration and there is this religious bullshit course before it, most of people are going for civil or private ones. LIKE GOKU AND CHICHI

Eire · Post by **Eire** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:31 am

Western, Western thinks that church weddings are nostalgic. In East it's just considered fancy and romantic, mostly due to Hollywood movies.

Oh, OK. Thanks for the information. I guess I just assumed that those common features of the stereotypical Devil design were present in other religions.

They were. Concept of Oni evolved long before Christianity come to Japan. Also Chinese and Tibetan demons looks pretty alike, having nothing in common with Christianity. Besides, Christian stereotypical image of Devil dates back from Middle Ages, not earlier.

Perfect · Post by **Perfect** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:36 am

Eire wrote:Western, Western thinks that church weddings are nostalgic. In East it's just considered fancy and romantic, mostly due to Hollywood movies.

Oh, OK. Thanks for the information. I guess I just assumed that those common features of the stereotypical Devil design were present in other religions.
They were. Concept of Oni evolved long before Christianity come to Japan. Also Chinese and Tibetan demons looks pretty alike, having nothing in common with Christianity. Besides, Christian stereotypical image of Devil dates back from Middle Ages, not earlier.

Dabra looks nothing like an Oni. It's the fact renaissance paintings are mainly derivatives from Judaism and Christianity. While those features may have existed long before then, the depiction we see of Satan and demons in general are quite clearly different from ancient oriental lore. As I previously stated that the aforementioned religions did not invent that sentient. You also have to take in the stylistic and artistic visuals from each work to really understand the evolution of the "creatures".

http://www.hdgamewall.com/wallpaper/oni-10.jpg An Oni resembles more of a troll, like those two aloof guards Goku met in Hell in those brief filler installments.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/ ... /satan.jpg I mean, that's pretty much Dabra right there.

Eire · Post by **Eire** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:28 am

The second picture has very little, if anything, to do with Christian imagination of devil. Seriously, that's just XX century popculture product that lost nearly all of devil features- starting from the fact that in Christian tradition devil was so human-alike that with good shoes and hat he could be mistaken with one. Symbols like horns and tails are pretty universal for beast in most of the cultures, so they were easy adopted, while goat legs and hoofs, wings and stunning beauty of the most powerful ones are now quite forgotten.

Perfect · Post by **Perfect** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:55 am

Eire wrote:The second picture has very little, if anything, to do with Christian imagination of devil. Seriously, that's just XX century popculture product that lost nearly all of devil features- starting from the fact that in Christian tradition devil was so human-alike that with good shoes and hat he could be mistaken with one. Symbols like horns and tails are pretty universal for beast in most of the cultures, so they were easy adopted, while goat legs and hoofs, wings and stunning beauty of the most powerful ones are now quite forgotten.

Ahuh, no. The "Christian Devil" changed appearance and was subjected to multiple interpretations as sects of Christianity branched off the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic church. Literally, that's how some protestants pictured Satan to be in his truest form (As opposed to how he'd walk among the humans, being the most beautiful creature on the outside, but ugliest on the inside).

There's literally been thousands of visual interpretations, but that's the one that's stuck around as a "pop-cultural icon". In other words, a stereotypical devil or rather, demon. There's been many illustrations to enforce this over the past hundreds and hundreds of years. Dating back from the middle ages in Europe to the BC era, to hell, even now. Demons had taken on the forms of pretty much anything, from hybrid animals and humans to well, flying green/red creatures with wings, horns and tridents.

http://www.bookteacher.org/Inferno.gif
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lueex44DPT1qggdq1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... devil).JPG
http://endtimesjournal.files.wordpress. ... gement.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sv3L1TTFkXA/T ... yohboy.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... angels.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 854%29.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _devil.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... iatour.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous ... tz7jX1w%3D
http://www.2-clicks-swords.com/images/i ... rident.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Jo7lJoQhtjw/T ... 041009.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/432 ... 95e683.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/ ... 307a4z.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... devil).JPG

If we look at oriental folk lore, we see similar features, but not the same overall look.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2510/p1018743wj5.jpg

Though my point was to show, while he is also interpreted as looking human, he's also interpreted as looking like the guy dressed in the photo I showed. Also note that while that stereotypical image adheres to Satan mainly, Satan does heir from the monotheistic religions of Judaism and Christianity in themselves. Demons on the other hand originate far beforehand, in which they're subject to even more interpretation. Also, regardless of whether or not you believe the "pop-cultural" devil look to be too far diverged to be in relation to Christianity, Satan still adheres to that look being that that's usually how he's stereotypically represented. Satan is mainly present in the three main monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, so therefore simply by the fact that's where he heirs from, he's still in relation to those religions. Though he's mainly associated with Christianity for some reason, that's where many people draw their conclusion that the image can only be in relation to that particular religion, that'd be inaccurate unless you include every religion he's either in at all, or just mainly.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:37 am

Don't know how Asian audience sees it, but before the Buu saga started to air in TV, I played Super Butouden 3 and as I stumbled upon Dabura in it, I thought:
''What the hell is this devilman doing here?!!'' It looked clearly as devil to me and also pretty much alien in Dragon Ball at that time.

Like playing Mario and the boss in this level is Fredie Krueger.

Kanzenshuu

Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

Re: Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences