Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Saiga]

I should be clearer, I would also think saying they are the worst of all if going too far, but a lot of these numbers just make absolutely no sense to me. I think it would be nice if he had posted reasons for each number being what it was (Vegeta being at 9,000,000 and Piccolo at 15,000,000 during the Trunks saga to begin with).

Piccolo is implied to be over Vegeta here, who was stated to have kept on training.

I just like having Piccolo insanely high at this time due to how insanely high he is 3 years later.

I don't even remember anything about anyone's power levels being implied at that point (except for Trunks, Goku, Freeza and Cold), but the second reason is a very good one. Could you tell me the quote that implies Piccolo > Vegeta please? Also it wasn't just Piccolo being higher than Vegeta, but Vegeta being so high as well.

[Pantalones]

I always took that fight in a different matter primarily because of Vegeta's actions. Vegeta avoided Zarbon until he had distracted him by throwing sand in his eyes and then started spamming ki blasts like there was no tomorrow. To me that doesn't scream overwhelming difference in power, but rather close enough for Vegeta to employ another strategy in the beginning of the fight instead of his usual head-on one.

Ah, okay. I'm not really familiar with the manga version of the Freeza saga (or the original anime's version, really... mostly just Kai. Which is supposed to be closer to the manga, though I'm not 100% sure how close.)

I know he did the same "dodging around before suddenly starting to attack and beat the crap out of him" thing against Zarbon the first time, too, but the actual crap-beating seemed a lot more effective in their second fight. I guess I could buy a 1000-point or 1500-point difference between them (so they'd be on a similar level, relative to each other, as they were in their first fight before Zarbon transformed--Vegeta's clearly stronger but Zarbon isn't quite helpless), but 100 just seems too small for one brief diversion to give Vegeta that much of an advantage. I guess I just don't think 100 points is that significant of a difference by the time the levels get up into the tens of thousands.

But yeah, 26,000 may be too low if you think Vegeta needed the sand-throwing distraction to beat Zarbon as quickly and easily as he did. I still wouldn't put him much higher than 28,000, and I'd say 29,000 is about the highest he can go before the power levels stop making much sense with the outcome of the fight (at 29,900 he should have been pretty much even with Vegeta... even taking the sand into account he clearly wasn't, basic weak ki blasts and punches were doing some pretty significant damage to him and that suggests to me that Vegeta was a good bit stronger.)

Of course, there are parts of the "official" power levels that don't make sense anyway (~4000 Nappa somewhat keeping up with >8000 Goku?), but I'd try to avoid making more of them when it comes to power levels that aren't already stated.

[Kaboom]

Maybe Vegeta's just a better fighter? That was his one true biggest advantage over both Dodoria and Zarbon, after all. He's had lots of practice and has been honing his skills lately, while the two of them have gotten lazy and complacent as Freeza's lap dogs. So it's only natural that he'd still dominate Zarbon in a fight even when their powers were almost equal.

[dbgtFO]

But yeah, 26,000 may be too low if you think Vegeta needed the sand-throwing distraction to beat Zarbon as quickly and easily as he did. I still wouldn't put him much higher than 28,000, and I'd say 29,000 is about the highest he can go before the power levels stop making much sense with the outcome of the fight (at 29,900 he should have been pretty much even with Vegeta... even taking the sand into account he clearly wasn't, basic weak ki blasts and punches were doing some pretty significant damage to him and that suggests to me that Vegeta was a good bit stronger.)

I disagree, simply because I don't see the problem with Vegeta damaging a distracted Zarbon to that extent at almost equal powers.
As you can see from my list, I also have Raditz at his official value of 1,500(which I forgot to list as official apparently) and he got significantly damaged by Gohan who had a battle power lower than his due to being distracted, so I don't think it's impossible for Zarbon to be that close to Vegeta.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Even when Vegeta sensed Zarbon following him, he'd already formulated a plan about how to defeat him, claiming that he'll be too sure of himself after their last fight and that he'll come at him off-guard. If Zarbon was easy pickings, then he wouldn't even need to care about whether or not Zarbon came at him off-guard; he could just kill him right off the bat.

But we saw that Vegeta had to use such a cheap shot as throwing dirt in Zarbon's eyes before quickly attacking him from behind and spamming ki blasts like there was no tomorrow. Then he relishes at how effective his preemptive attack was.

Chapter: 268 (DBZ 74), P8.1-5
Context: Vegeta thinks Zarbon’s strength has fallen from the pre-emptive attack and brags about his own increase in power.
Vegeta: “Looks like my preemptive attack had an effect…Your stamina’s fallen quite a bit, hasn’t it? Zarbon, your death is close.”

[dbgtFO]

Even when Vegeta sensed Zarbon following him, he'd already formulated a plan about how to defeat him, claiming that he'll be too sure of himself after their last fight and that he'll come at him off-guard. If Zarbon was easy pickings, then he wouldn't even need to care about whether or not Zarbon came at him off-guard; he could just kill him right off the bat.

Huh? I've never heard of that quote before.. it seems, it's another thing the danish version missed, but yeah that is another good indicator.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Even when Vegeta sensed Zarbon following him, he'd already formulated a plan about how to defeat him, claiming that he'll be too sure of himself after their last fight and that he'll come at him off-guard. If Zarbon was easy pickings, then he wouldn't even need to care about whether or not Zarbon came at him off-guard; he could just kill him right off the bat.

Huh? I've never heard of that quote before.. it seems, it's another thing the danish version missed, but yeah that is another good indicator.

I took that from Viz; I'm not sure about the original.

[CatouttaHell]

I don't even remember anything about anyone's power levels being implied at that point (except for Trunks, Goku, Freeza and Cold), but the second reason is a very good one. Could you tell me the quote that implies Piccolo > Vegeta please? Also it wasn't just Piccolo being higher than Vegeta, but Vegeta being so high as well.

Chapter: 336 (DBZ 142), P6.1-2
Context: after Piccolo says that only those with confidence in their abilities should come battle the androids
Vegeta: “Don’t make me laugh. Aren’t you’re the one with the least confidence?
Piccolo: “What was that? You want to try me?”

Implies that Piccolo is > Vegeta at this stage of the game. Piccolo never talks trash unless he knows he can back it up.

The fact that Vegeta didn't dare take him up on that speaks volumes too IMO.

Yeah I was using a 10x multiplier for all SSjins for this list so Vegeta and Piccolo ended up being too high at this time probably.

Normally I just have Vegeta around 2,800,000, maybe a bit more, and Piccolo around 4 or 5 million.

[allfornot2]

Chapter: 336 (DBZ 142), P6.1-2
Context: after Piccolo says that only those with confidence in their abilities should come battle the androids
Vegeta: “Don’t make me laugh. Aren’t you’re the one with the least confidence?
Piccolo: “What was that? You want to try me?”

Implies that Piccolo is > Vegeta at this stage of the game. Piccolo never talks trash unless he knows he can back it up.

The fact that Vegeta didn't dare take him up on that speaks volumes too IMO.

Yeah I was using a 10x multiplier for all SSjins for this list so Vegeta and Piccolo ended up being too high at this time probably.

Normally I just have Vegeta around 2,800,000, maybe a bit more, and Piccolo around 4 or 5 million.

Personally, I took that line to mean that they were closer to even rather than either one really having an edge. Were I making a list, which I'm not as I don't have nearly enough know-how to do so, I'd put Vegeta at maybe a couple thousand higher than Piccolo.

[Rocketman]

Piccolo never talks trash unless he knows he can back it up.

How many times does Vegeta talk trash when he knows he's outmatched?

[hleV]

Didn't Piccolo talk to Raditz back, even though he knew he was outmatched? Could be the similar scenario with Piccolo talking back to Vegeta. He's just not of a kind to stay quiet when others talk shit about him, which not necessary means he's stronger.

[Saiga]

Didn't Piccolo talk to Raditz back, even though he knew he was outmatched? Could be the similar scenario with Piccolo talking back to Vegeta. He's just not of a kind to stay quiet when others talk shit about him, which not necessary means he's stronger.

Yeah, he threatened to kill Raditz and told him to beat it IIRC. He was probably just bluffing against Vegeta.

[CatouttaHell]

Personally, I took that line to mean that they were closer to even rather than either one really having an edge. Were I making a list, which I'm not as I don't have nearly enough know-how to do so, I'd put Vegeta at maybe a couple thousand higher than Piccolo.

A couple thousand doesn't really mean much when characters are in the millions. I mean it's basically the difference between a guy who can bench 250 pounds and a guy who can bench 250.1 pounds.

Vegeta would probably try to take Piccolo up on his offer if they were about even IMO.

How many times does Vegeta talk trash when he knows he's outmatched?

Vegeta didn't dare to take Piccolo up on his offer when he dared him to try him. There's a big difference between, say, insulting an MMA fighter and actually offering to fight him.

Vegeta talked trash against both Perfect Cell and Freeza, who many people argue weren't suppressed against him and were clearly putting out Ki that was above him from the moment they started to fight.

Didn't Piccolo talk to Raditz back, even though he knew he was outmatched? Could be the similar scenario with Piccolo talking back to Vegeta. He's just not of a kind to stay quiet when others talk shit about him, which not necessary means he's stronger.

Well Piccolo was still supposed to be the main villain at that point so he had a very different attitude.

That was right after the 23rd TB in terms of manga pacing, and we all know how different that Piccolo was from Freeza/Cell/Boo, hell, even late Saiya-jin arc Piccolo.

[Rocketman]

Vegeta didn't dare to take Piccolo up on his offer when he dared him to try him.

Because in the same small panel, Goku intervenes and the subject is dropped.

Vegeta talked trash against both Perfect Cell and Freeza, who many people argue weren't suppressed against him and were clearly putting out Ki that was above him from the moment they started to fight.

I don't recall this. I remember him trash-talking to goad Cell into taking the Final Flash, and telling Freeza to transform because he would anyway, but not when he was completely outmatched and knew it (in both of those cases, he thought his hand was stronger).

[Piccolo Daimao]

To be honest, CatouttaHell, I think you're over-analyzing that quote too much. Not to mention all the other insignificant quotes.

Vegeta's being a dick, as usual, to Piccolo, saying that he's not confident against the Androids. Piccolo, not one to just take abuse like that, challenges him, regardless of whether or not he thinks he can defeat him. Then Goku intervenes before any shit breaks loose and the subject is dropped.

So what if Piccolo was bluffing? Loads of other warriors talk trash, and it happens in real-life too. "Being Piccolo" doesn't excuse him from an ability to retaliate when someone insults him for no reason.

[lash]

Neither were at full power, nor knew the other's full power anyway. All you could conclude from that confidence statement is Piccolo(Trunks arc) > Vegeta(Namek)

[Fox666]

Nail: 42,000.*
-near death: 10.

Piccolo: 130,000.
-Merged with Nail: 1,300,000.

That's funny

[dbgtFO]

Nail: 42,000.*
-near death: 10.

Piccolo: 130,000.
-Merged with Nail: 1,300,000.

That's funny

It is?

[Rocketman]

Piccolo going from 3000 to 130,000 in the same time as Goku going from 9000 to 90,000? I agree, that's hilarious.

[dbgtFO]

Okay.