Did Funimation put just as much effort in? (Not Sub vs Dub)

[Ringworm128]

Now before I start yes I know that the Funimation dub is pretty bad when you compare it to the original version but lets ignore that. Funimation when they first did DBZ redid pretty much everything scripts, voices, music etc. So in a way Funimation put just as much effort in as Toei did if not more. Think about it not only did they rewrite all the scripts but they also did a whole music score and did a lot of re-imagining of the characters voices (i.e a deep gruff stubborn voice to show Vegeta's prideful yet sinister attitude as opposed to the smooth talking smug voice Vegeta had in the original). They even made whole new characters (i,e Freeza going from polite gentlemen to sadistic joker type villain. They even did edits in their early dub which takes a bit of effort.They pretty much made an entire new show unlike Toei who simply copied of the manga changed a few things and added in a lot of filler. So whats do you think. Please try to look at this from how much they did not from how it turned out.

[Adamant]

Putting effort into a dub of a foreign media involves getting the same tone, idea and concepts across so the dub watchers will get an experience as close to that of the original audience as possible. It does not involve making shit up.

[GreggMays64]

I thought the voices were very nice once they reached the Majin Boo arc.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

...you realize that Toei had to actually animate the show, right?

Is animating an entire show really considered incidental to you? "Just make the manga and toss some filler in" is hardly nothing. It requires storyboarding, inking, painting. They were on a schedule where this show was rarely off the air any given week through the entire run, while Funimation(who only had to do dub work) had massive hiatuses throughout the show's original US run. You act as though Funimation is the only one of the set to make their own score, when obviously the manga did NOT come with a score pre-packaged. Comparing the "effort" that goes into Kikuchi's orchestral score to the "effort" that goes into the synth soundtrack whose main point is to "have sound at all times", you can't just say "both made a score, and thus are equivalent".

The idea that Funimation put "effort" into Dragonball is laughable. We're talking about a company that outsourced its own job, voicework, before finally bringing it in-house after the show became a hit. It outsourced home video, too. It succeeded from a promotional perspective largely due to being pulled behind the weight that was Cartoon Network's highly successful and well-marketed Toonami block. Saying that Funimation put effort in at all is worthy of a stifled chuckle, claiming that they actually put in more effort than Toei is downright laughable.

[xXInfinite026Xx]

...you realize that Toei had to actually animate the show, right?

This. My thoughts exactly.

[xzero]

The idea that Funimation put "effort" into Dragonball is laughable. We're talking about a company that outsourced its own job, voicework, before finally bringing it in-house after the show became a hit. It outsourced home video, too. It succeeded from a promotional perspective largely due to being pulled behind the weight that was Cartoon Network's highly successful and well-marketed Toonami block. Saying that Funimation put effort in at all is worthy of a stifled chuckle, claiming that they actually put in more effort than Toei is downright laughable.

You're not really being fair to Funimation. Outsourcing was, at the time, the only practical economic move it could make. It was just starting up as a company at that point and it owned one particularly lucrative property license. To profit off that and build the company up, outsourcing was a viable option.

As far as effort, I'd say Funimation did indeed put effort into the show. No, not as much as Toei because you can't discount the challenges of animating and adapting it from the manga, but an effort was made. The problem, of course, is that the effort went toward an Americanization rather than a dub. So it was a misguided/misdirected effort, but it took work all the same. The original dub can't be given a free pass on the grounds of "it was their first property" or "they didn't know what they were doing," especially in light of the fact that it's readily apparent now that the current powers that be at Funimation (Sabat being a big one) were fully aware of the show's problems and seemingly disagreed with the decisions at the time. But it's incorrect to say that no effort went into the production on Funi's end.

[JulieYBM]

...you realize that Toei had to actually animate the show, right?

Is animating an entire show really considered incidental to you? "Just make the manga and toss some filler in" is hardly nothing. It requires storyboarding, inking, painting. They were on a schedule where this show was rarely off the air any given week through the entire run, while Funimation(who only had to do dub work) had massive hiatuses throughout the show's original US run. You act as though Funimation is the only one of the set to make their own score, when obviously the manga did NOT come with a score pre-packaged. Comparing the "effort" that goes into Kikuchi's orchestral score to the "effort" that goes into the synth soundtrack whose main point is to "have sound at all times", you can't just say "both made a score, and thus are equivalent".

Not to mention the four hour sessions spent on each episode where the directors and actors all worked together in the studio, together, to create their best performances. FUNimation couldn't even be bothered to have the actors play off each other. Of course, that's a monetary issue and a time issue but it still goes back to effort placed into making their dub...which just isn't anywhere near the amount Toei Animation placed into creating the entire four TV series', seventeen films, and multiple specials.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Not to mention the four hour sessions spent on each episode where the directors and actors all worked together in the studio, together, to create their best performances. FUNimation couldn't even be bothered to have the actors play off each other. Of course, that's a monetary issue and a time issue but it still goes back to effort placed into making their dub...which just isn't anywhere near the amount Toei Animation placed into creating the entire four TV series', seventeen films, and multiple specials.

That was hardly a DBZ thing though, anime dubs barely EVER have the actors record together, it's pretty much always done seperately due to ADR complexity or something. The only time I can recall actors recording together off the top of my head is for parts of the second Naruto film.

[OutlawTorn]

To whoever thinks FUNimation didn't put any effort into the show and truly believes it, please get an accurate perspective on the whole ordeal. Whether good or bad, and effort is still an effort.

As far as outsourcing the voice acting goes, do you think the Japanese voices are attached to Toei? If they were, why would there be issues of some of the actors possibly being too expensive to reprise their roles for Kai?

Before we damn FUNimation entirely, let's consider the possibilities which may have existed during the Saban era. We don't know if many of the cuts and changes were made were because of television practices or whether they were dictated by Saban.

As has been previously mentioned, it is hardly fair to blame FUNimation for not having the entire cast together at the same time in a recording session. Ensemble recording is a common practice when creating a new product, but in the case of imported animation, lines are recorded separately in order to best match the mouth movements of the characters on the screen. Getting the performance and the timing right can be a time consuming process, so I think they both get equal credit for effort here, as they involve two different procedures. Let's not let a bias against FUNimation cloud the issue here.

For the record, such looping of dialogue is also performed with many movies due to the noise created by the equipment rendering the native sound recording unusable.

Localization is also something which isn't limited to FUNimation. There are instances where an exchange can be translated completely accurate yet the pun is lost in translation. I have seen comments saying Krillin should have been called "Kurillin" so the pun would have at least been preserved. It might have been preserved for people fluent in Japanese but the average viewer wouldn't get the joke that it referred to the Japanese word for chestnut.

If I quoted a punchline of: "Father Charles goes down and ends battle" and left it at that or even in a Jeopardy-like way giving at least the category of Music, would anybody really get that it is a mnemonic which represents the order of sharp keys on a musical staff? Of course not, it's ludicrous to believe otherwise.

So, I think FUNimation put in quite a bit of effort in regards to DBZ, I've even seen comments in the past that some fans of the Japanese version felt felt the title card during the Saban era were superior to the Japanese title cards. The quality of their efforts may have been rather mixed but it's painfully clear that effort was put into the property and they apparently haven't ruined Dragon Ball forever because Toei hasn't blocked renewing their license.

[JulieYBM]

Not to mention the four hour sessions spent on each episode where the directors and actors all worked together in the studio, together, to create their best performances. FUNimation couldn't even be bothered to have the actors play off each other. Of course, that's a monetary issue and a time issue but it still goes back to effort placed into making their dub...which just isn't anywhere near the amount Toei Animation placed into creating the entire four TV series', seventeen films, and multiple specials.

That was hardly a DBZ thing though, anime dubs barely EVER have the actors record together, it's pretty much always done seperately due to ADR complexity or something. The only time I can recall actors recording together off the top of my head is for parts of the second Naruto film.

I can't think of a less damning-sounding way of putting it, but it's still a sign cheapness and not putting the same level of effort in as the original creats did. Not recording together is hardly the first indicator of how penny-pinching the dubbing industry is, though.

[Ashura]

You know, most Japanese shows -- unlike US prelay shows which record dialogue before animation -- are recorded separately. From what I recall, most record to the completed footage instead of before... a single or two people at a time. That's one of the key reasons the lipflaps were so bad for a long-long time.

I know there's a couple shows which record the other way around -- and I'm not sure if DBZ was one of them -- but it's really more common over there to do it one person at a time.

[cRookie_Monster]

Almost everyone I knew that worked on the dub put their heart and soul into it, doing what they believed was right to the extent that they could. Even Barry, though many disagree with his decisions.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I can't think of a less damning-sounding way of putting it, but it's still a sign cheapness and not putting the same level of effort in as the original creats did. Not recording together is hardly the first indicator of how penny-pinching the dubbing industry is, though.

I know, I just felt like I should point it out though since it's hardly a FUNi or DBZ thing, that's all. I can definitely agree on how cheap the industry overall is though, in a manner of speaking.

And believe it or not, despite me being one of the rare dub fans here, I agree that the Japanese had to put more effort in it. I mean, they had to actually make the show, FUNi just had to take the materials and work with it. So the Japanese putting in more effort is kind of a no-brainer answer to me. Now which should put more effort as in like...passion, like loving their work, into it, is something that's harder to answer.

[thedarkuniter]

I say both sides equally put in effort when it comes down to the show, saying that Funimation didn't put any effort isn't true at all. Granted, the Japanese side of things have to animate stuff, etc., but Funimation also puts effort in licencing a product, putting out home releases, dubbing the show, translating the credits into English and so on.

[OutlawTorn]

I don't think anybody is trying to take away from the effort the Japanese put into the creation and production of the Dragon Ball anime series, but even arguing those semantics falls under "sub vs. dub" in this case as every single dub falls under the same category, with Toei having created the actual footage and soundtrack first.

Not recording together is hardly the first indicator of how penny-pinching the dubbing industry is, though.

Unless we're in the industry, we don't really know what goes into the process. But really, when you think about working to sync up dialogue to existing animation, it really is one of those "one line at a time" type of situation and, as such, you can't have a scene being played out as if it is a table read.

Call it penny-pinching if you want, but when all of these actors are being paid for by the hour it's incredibly cost inefficient to have half a dozen (or more) sitting around while you're already working with on.

[JulieYBM]

You know, most Japanese shows -- unlike US prelay shows which record dialogue before animation -- are recorded separately. From what I recall, most record to the completed footage instead of before... a single or two people at a time. That's one of the key reasons the lipflaps were so bad for a long-long time.

I know there's a couple shows which record the other way around -- and I'm not sure if DBZ was one of them -- but it's really more common over there to do it one person at a time.

We know from pictures, blog posts, and behind-the-scenes video that Dragon Ball (and One Piece) is recorded in group sessions. Going by testimony from the actors the video games are solo sessions, though.

[MarcFBR]

The record at once is the preferred method of recording, but the way the Japanese do it tends to sour the point of doing it that way.

Often things are rushed through with only one or two takes, issues are ignored, etc.

[TheGreatness25]

I'd say FUNimation put in effort. It's easy to translate something and keep music and not do anything except translate and have the characters read off the voices. For better or worse, FUNimation did try. They made their own music instead of using the original score. I'd say that's trying. They desperately tried matching the mouth flaps of the characters, unlike some other animes, and unlike the original Japanese version somethings, actually. Their straying from the dialog is not a lack of trying, it's an attempt to adapt the show into American media, which was successful. Look how gigantic the show became. It was a different formula for back then and they did what they had to. So yes, I think they tried their asses off.

[AgitoZ]

Their straying from the dialog is not a lack of trying, it's an attempt to adapt the show into American media, which was successful. Look how gigantic the show became.

That's not why it became successful. It became a success because it's DBZ.

[Ringworm128]

Putting effort into a dub of a foreign media involves getting the same tone, idea and concepts across so the dub watchers will get an experience as close to that of the original audience as possible. It does not involve making shit up.

No that's what putting effort into translating is about. The dub of DBZ may have been inaccurate to the original but that doesn't change the fact they did what they did someone still had to do all the music, script changes etc.