Episode of Bardock: Giant On-Going Manga + Anime Discussion

[Attitudefan]

Toriyama has evolved & changed Dragon Ball's original point, style. Originally, it was a comedy-adventure-fantasy style series, with Goku & friends looking for Dragon Balls. Eventualy, it become more serious and became took an action-fighting-kill-the-evil-multitransforming-guy style. Originally, the art style was more rounded. Eventually, the characters became more squared. See?

It is somewhat true in regards to what you say but at the same time it isn't. VEGETA_DTX explained it best in his posts so I won't bother repeating what he said. I would like to add that, when it became a story of aliens and intergalactic travel the title was put under a new name, a new product, Dragonball Z.

I believe that the art style in Dragon Ball Z is varying much more on the per-episode basis than on per-saga basis

That is true! The change becomes quite more noticeable after the invasions of the Saiyans. There was a cycle that was in Dragonball early on but it was much more consistent and drawn much better than opposed to later on.

Episode 1 of DBZ compared to Episode 128:

Same art studio.





Same Saga. Pick, which one is better? Proportion, style?

[JulieYBM]

Same art studio.


Same Saga. Pick, which one is better? Proportion, style?

Uh, not really. Yamamuro Tadayoshi was a part of Shindou Productions during Dragon Ball Z. Shindou Mitsuo was the animation supervisor up until the Artificial Humans arc, when Yamamuro took over that role. Yamamuro is the animation supervisor (as well as a key animator) for the Dragon Soul opening animation, but he had no influence over that screen cap from Dragon Ball Z you posted. He neither drew it or supervised it so that comparison isn't really fair at all.

[Attitudefan]

I wasn't trying to say the same animator at all! The same art studio is for the above pictures with Son Goku!
But it is Vegeta, from the same saga (well one IS from an opening but it is supposed to be him during the Saiyan arc). It is supposed to compare the two from present day and from before!

Anyways, use these for proper comparison:






I would like to point out how the Anime from '89 is almost the exact same as the manga! The new style does not look like it at all!


But you do see the change over time:

[AgitoZ]

Same Saga. Pick, which one is better? Proportion, style?

I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

It'd be one thing if both were just actual still images, but they're not. Both are screencaps of animation, which I usually like to see in motion. One is meant for much more movement (Kai opening), the other is a static talking shot (Z). It's apples and oranges, really.

But if it's based only on composition (is that the word?), then, yeah, I like the one from Z. But really it's all personal preference. I'm biased to the rounded style of early DBZ, but I wouldn't call the other bad.

[jjgp1112]

Most of these comparisons are just really unfair

[Attitudefan]

Same Saga. Pick, which one is better? Proportion, style?

I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

It'd be one thing if both were just actual still images, but they're not. Both are screencaps of animation, which I usually like to see in motion. One is meant for much more movement (Kai opening), the other is a static talking shot (Z). It's apples and oranges, really.

But if it's based only on composition (is that the word?), then, yeah, I like the one from Z. But really it's all personal preference. I'm biased to the rounded style of early DBZ, but I wouldn't call the other bad.

True, true. I should have went with another image but I digress... I was lazy to upload my own screencaps.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Did Jouji Yanami sound a lot different to anyone else as the narrator in this? I thought I'd noticed this before but was having to do my comparison by memory, but now that I'm watching a little of subbed Kai while poking around my DVDs, I can't help but notice that there he sounds just as young as he did back int he Z days. It just sounded a lot more guttural to me in EoB, maybe his age is finally catching up with him?

[JulieYBM]

His performance is Dragon Ball Kai felt a lot softer than what he did for Dragon Ball Z. I think his Episode of Bardock performance had a lot more of the strength he did back in Dragon Ball Z.

[Raykugen]

I would like to point out how the Anime from '89 is almost the exact same as the manga! The new style does not look like it at all!

Just because that's not their objective ._. they use the last style used on Dragon Ball Z, in other words, the better (you can also think that's not the better) it's the most modern and detalied style and they want with everything look at the same style.

[Attitudefan]

I would like to point out how the Anime from '89 is almost the exact same as the manga! The new style does not look like it at all!

Just because that's not their objective ._. they use the last style used on Dragon Ball Z, in other words, the better (you can also think that's not the better) it's the most modern and detalied style and they want with everything look at the same style.

Well that's a darn shame!

[KiddoCabbusses]

His performance is Dragon Ball Kai felt a lot softer than what he did for Dragon Ball Z. I think his Episode of Bardock performance had a lot more of the strength he did back in Dragon Ball Z.

I feel as though most of the Kai performances were soft, undermined and didn't have the same strength and character they had back in Z.
On the other hand, Episode of Bardock sounded more on-par. Masako Nozawa's voice being deeper may not suit Gohan all the time, but up until Bardock had to do a Super Saiyan scream it actually worked well for him. (The scream kinda seemed like it lacked blood-curdling umph, though.)
And Chilled, well, was Freeza redux.

[Gyt Kaliba]

His performance is Dragon Ball Kai felt a lot softer than what he did for Dragon Ball Z. I think his Episode of Bardock performance had a lot more of the strength he did back in Dragon Ball Z.

I feel as though most of the Kai performances were soft, undermined and didn't have the same strength and character they had back in Z.
On the other hand, Episode of Bardock sounded more on-par. Masako Nozawa's voice being deeper may not suit Gohan all the time, but up until Bardock had to do a Super Saiyan scream it actually worked well for him. (The scream kinda seemed like it lacked blood-curdling umph, though.)
And Chilled, well, was Freeza redux.

I dunno, I mean it's been a few months since I last watched some DBZ subbed (really need to get back to it soon) and I don't recall him sounding quite like he did in Episode of Bardock, so maybe my memory is messing with me.

And yeah, Chilled was definitely pretty much Nakao's Freeza voice, but I'm never gonna complain about more Nakao heh.

[Raykugen]

I would like to point out how the Anime from '89 is almost the exact same as the manga! The new style does not look like it at all!

Just because that's not their objective ._. they use the last style used on Dragon Ball Z, in other words, the better (you can also think that's not the better) it's the most modern and detalied style and they want with everything look at the same style.

Well that's a darn shame!

It's your opinion, the style of toriyama get better along the series, and using the most done style is the better they can do.

[samuraix123]

I don't know if I'm aloud to ask on here but does anyone know where I can download subtitles for episode of bardock?

[Attitudefan]

It's your opinion, the style of toriyama get better along the series, and using the most done style is the better they can do.

I wouldn't say better but different.

[AgitoZ]

And yeah, Chilled was definitely pretty much Nakao's Freeza voice, but I'm never gonna complain about more Nakao heh.

That's just what Nakao sounds like. I wouldn't call the performance the same though, Chilled is definitely much more childish, the inflections are much more exaggerated, and Nakao definitely sounds like he's having fun in the role.

It's your opinion...

No kidding.

...the style of toriyama get better along the series, and using the most done style is the better they can do.

I don't know what you exactly mean by the last part, but honestly I gotta disagree with the first point, or at least somewhat.

I would say the art style for the 23rd Budokai-Saiyan arc is Toriyama at his best. Later on it doesn't get bad, but once we got to the Boo arc it definitely got lazy. As the story went on the art style definitely got much more stylized and by the Boo arc it got too stylized. The roundness and cleanliness of his earlier artwork was gone.

But on the other hand, I definitely like Toriyama's much more recent artwork. Even if the proportions having got a bit...odd. The characters are now more rounded and he definitely took a step back from the stylization. I'm sure being on a weekly schedule affected him and now he's getting back in form.

[Attitudefan]

I would say the art style for the 23rd Budokai-Saiyan arc is Toriyama at his best. Later on it doesn't get bad, but once we got to the Boo arc it definitely got lazy. As the story went on the art style definitely got much more stylized and by the Boo arc it got too stylized. The roundness and cleanliness of his earlier artwork was gone.

I agree 100%

Anyways, there is an odd picture of Goku in the Buu arc and his eyes are way too far apart!

[Android 50]

I can't believe they compressed 3 mangas worth of content into a 20 minute episode. I thought it would be at least a 45 minute special.

It was so rushed and they also made it a little kiddish. Why would they do that? I mean it makes sense that they may be trying to reach out to a younger audience because the old fans are loyal, but what sense does it make? The kids can't read Dragon Ball anyway because of the nudity and the sexual references.

I'm sure if they made this one like their earlier movies, it would have been so much better. People would actually be talking about it a whole lot more.

Dragon Ball has always been a kiddy manga/tv show. Its why it was on almost every kids channel block in every country. Just what os so sexual or mature about Dragon Ball? Bulma showing her tits twice out of the entire series?

Now if this were Bastard!! then I might agree.


As for the new art style I cannot get used to it and have been looking at it ever since 2003 or 2004 in the Budokai video games. I always remember questioning why Gohan's hair was so brown in those videos. But one thing I loved was the animation in those game intros. They were great and hyped you up to play the game A LOT better than the old DBZ games from the 90s did.

[Gyt Kaliba]

And yeah, Chilled was definitely pretty much Nakao's Freeza voice, but I'm never gonna complain about more Nakao heh.

That's just what Nakao sounds like. I wouldn't call the performance the same though, Chilled is definitely much more childish, the inflections are much more exaggerated, and Nakao definitely sounds like he's having fun in the role.

Yeah, it's just the voice that's pretty much the same, didn't mean to say that he was playing them the same. Particularly when Chilled was screaming 'Kuso!' later on, it was in a pretty un-Freeza manner. The politeness in Freeza's mannerisms isn't present in Chilled at all.

[Perfect]

I can't believe they compressed 3 mangas worth of content into a 20 minute episode. I thought it would be at least a 45 minute special.

It was so rushed and they also made it a little kiddish. Why would they do that? I mean it makes sense that they may be trying to reach out to a younger audience because the old fans are loyal, but what sense does it make? The kids can't read Dragon Ball anyway because of the nudity and the sexual references.

I'm sure if they made this one like their earlier movies, it would have been so much better. People would actually be talking about it a whole lot more.

Dragon Ball has always been a kiddy manga/tv show. Its why it was on almost every kids channel block in every country. Just what os so sexual or mature about Dragon Ball? Bulma showing her tits twice out of the entire series?

Now if this were Bastard!! then I might agree.


As for the new art style I cannot get used to it and have been looking at it ever since 2003 or 2004 in the Budokai video games. I always remember questioning why Gohan's hair was so brown in those videos. But one thing I loved was the animation in those game intros. They were great and hyped you up to play the game A LOT better than the old DBZ games from the 90s did.

You have to realize censorship's changed in Japan over the past decade. When Goku/Trunks' penis showing quite a lot innocently was prevalent back then because it wasn't a big deal, nowadays it is for some liberal douche bag reason (Referring to Kai). Who really cares though, it's not too big of a deal since DBZ's on DVD in its entirety. You'd also have a lot of sexual references and "dirty laundry" in early Dragon Ball, whereas later it'd just be action with some gore on the side. Whether or not it's acceptable to a certain culture or society isn't necessarily based upon the criteria of what's being presented, but the standards and regulations of said country. What's for children in one country, may not be in another; demographics are tricky that way sometimes. For example Dragon Ball, even with a censored dub, uncut on DVD has a TV14 rating, thus a higher demographic in terms of older target audiences, as opposed to TVPG DBZ. Plus what may have been acceptable 10 years ago to children in certain countries may not be the same today. So when there's always a different target audiences with certain TV shows, namely anime, it's not always a kiddie show. Granted an adult shouldn't have a problem watching a kid's show from japan during the 80s and 90s anyway. :p