Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Personally, I like to think that Piccolo roughly doubled his power to match Goku's 8,000. It fits nicely with Nail's 42,000... Though I admit even that jump is a fairly big stretch seeing how they were only there for like 6 days and Piccolo didn't even do most of Kaio's actual training, did he?

[lash]

Piccolo's definitely stronger than Nail, but much stronger than multiple near death powerup 100x gravity 90K Goku? While only being on 10x gravity for 6 days? I know Toriyama isn't the best with logic...but that's just borderline insanity if you ask me. But it's not my numbers so...you're free to do what you like!

[CatouttaHell]

There's no logic behind power increases. Characters are as powerful as Toriyama wants them to be. Piccolo could be anywhere from 60,000 to 400,000 realistically.

I don't recall this. I remember him trash-talking to goad Cell into taking the Final Flash, and telling Freeza to transform because he would anyway, but not when he was completely outmatched and knew it (in both of those cases, he thought his hand was stronger).

He was talking trash to True Form Freeza and to Initial Perfect Cell despite the fact that he clearly couldn't land a single hit on them.

[lash]

There's no logic behind power increases. Characters are as powerful as Toriyama wants them to be. Piccolo could be anywhere from 60,000 to 400,000 realistically.

And there'd be no reason to have Piccolo over 90K Goku.

[Kaboom]

That's the thing, though. Plot-determined power boosts always still have some sort of in-universe logic behind them, even if it's made up on the spot. That's just common sense. Saiyan healing boosts were a great example of this for the period of the series in question. So are things like new transformations, and the Room of Spirit and Time, and fusions, and so forth.

"Just training" is a VERY weak premise for supposedly massive power gains, and that's all Piccolo had going for him between his death and being revived and transported to Namek. Only about a week of training, at best. There's nothing special at work there to account for the giant increase.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I put Piccolo post-Kaio training at 55k. That's because I interpret Nail's statement to imply that Piccolo's stronger than him. However, I do think that putting him at something like 100k is a bit overkill, because although he could be stronger than Nail, I don't think there's any reason to have him that high. 55k is ridiculous enough; 100k is beyond ridiculous.

[Rocketman]

He was talking trash to True Form Freeza and to Initial Perfect Cell despite the fact that he clearly couldn't land a single hit on them.

Can you give me quotes? I really don't remember any time Vegeta trash talked either of them after he knew he was completely outmatched.

[dbgtFO]

He was talking trash to True Form Freeza and to Initial Perfect Cell despite the fact that he clearly couldn't land a single hit on them.

Can you give me quotes? I really don't remember any time Vegeta trash talked either of them after he knew he was completely outmatched.

This is truth.

Versus Freeza:
Vegeta talks trash.
Freeza shows his superiority.
Vegeta stops talking trash and even starts crying.

Versus Cell:
Vegeta talks trash.
Cell's ki goes above Vegeta's.
Vegeta stops talking trash.
Then..
Vegeta talks trash after succesfull Final Flash.
Cell regenerates.
Vegeta stops talking trash.

[Gogeta8001]

Hey Guys! I thought it would be cool if I made my own Power Level series here on Daiz. I`m gonna try to be as close to the Manga and Daiz as I can. BTW I might switch between the Japanese and Funi dubs for the characters names so bare with me.

Saiyan Saga

Farmer Vs Raditz
Farmer With Shotgun: 5
Raditz (Supressed): 1,200

Goku & Piccolo Vs Raditz
Son Goku (With Weights): 334
Son Goku (Without Weights): 416
Kamehameha: 900
Piccolo (With Weights): 322
Piccolo (Without Weights): 408
Makankosappo: 1,200
Piccolo (With Weights, Post Fight): 329 (Yes, somehow he got stronger after the fight)
Son Gohan: 1
Son Gohan (Angry, 1st Time): 700
Son Gohan (Angry, 2nd Time): 1,100
Raditz (Supressed): 1,200 (I guess his full power is 1,500 according to the Daiz)
Raditz (Weakened): 800

Other Characters
Kuririn: 206
Master Roshi: 139
Yamcha: 177
Chiaotzu: 145
Tien: 250
Kami: 290
King Yemma: 2,000

Z-Fighters Vs Nappa
Son Gohan (Post-Training): 981
Son Gohan (Angry): 2,500
Masenko: 2,800
Kuririn (Post-Training, Supressed): 1,083
Kuririn (Post-Training): 1,770
Piccolo (Post-Training, Supressed): 1,220
Piccolo (Post-Training): 3,500
Chiaotzu: 610
Yamcha: 1,480
Tien: 1,830
Saibamen (Each): 1,200
Nappa (Supressed): 4,000

Goku Vs Nappa
Nappa (Full Power): 7,500
Goku (Supressed): 5,000
Goku (Full Power): 8,200
Kaioken: 12,300

Goku, Gohan, Krillin, Yaijorbe Vs Vegeta
Goku: 8,200
Kaioken x2: 16,400
Kaioken x3: 24,600
Kaioken x3 Kamehameha: 29,600
Kaioken x4: 32,800
Kaioken x4 Kamehameha: 37,800
Son Goku (Crippled): 5
Vegeta: 18,000
Galick Gun: 30,000
Oozaru Vegeta: 180,000
Vegeta (Injured): 10,000
Vegeta (Mortally Injured):1,000
Vegeta (Crippled): 10
Son Gohan (Zenkai): 2,000
Son Gohan (Injured): 500
Son Gohan (Oozaru, Injured): 5,000
Yaijorbe: 970
Kuririn: 1,770
Genkai Dama: 300,000
Weakened Genkai Dama: 9,000

Namek Saga

On To Namek!
Freeza`s Soliders (Each) : Under 1,000
Warrior Nameks (Each): 3,000
Son Gohan (Zenkai): 3,000
Kuririn: 2,000
Vegeta (Zenkai): 24,000
Cui: 19,000
Dodoria: 22,000
Zarbon: 23,000
Zarbon (True Form): 27,000
Vegeta (2nd Zenkai): 30,000

Z-Fighters Vs Ginyu Force
Son Gohan (Potential Unlocked): 14,000
Kuririn (Potential Unlocked): 13,000
Vegeta: 30,000
Guldo: 5,000
Recoome: 40,000
Burter: 41,000
Jeice: 40,000
Son Goku (Supressed): 5,000
Son Goku (Full Power): 90,000

Z-Fighters Vs Captain Ginyu
Son Goku: 90,000
Kaioken x2: 180,000
Son Goku (In Captain Ginyu`s Body, Injured): 2,000
Captain Ginyu: 120,000
Captain Ginyu (In Goku`s Body): 25,000
Son Gohan (Zenkai): 24,000
Kuririn: 23,000 (He somehow got stronger between these 2 fights)
Vegeta (Injured, 3rd Zenkai): 200,000
Nail: 42,000
1st Form Freeza: 530,000

Freeza Saga

Z-Fighters Vs Freeza
Son Gohan (2nd Zenkai): 110,000
Son Gohan (2nd Zenkai, Angry): 1,100,000
Son Gohan (3rd Zenkai): 140,000
Son Gohan (3rd Zenkai, Angry): 1,400,000
Kuririn: 23,000
Vegeta (3rd Zenkai): 480,000
Vegeta (4th Zenkai): 2,000,000
Piccolo (Post Training, With Weights): 220,000
Piccolo (Post Training, Without Weights): 240,000
Piccolo (Fused With Nail, With Weights): 1,100,000
Piccolo (Fused With Nail, Without Weights): 1,200,000
1st Form Freeza: 530,000
2nd Form Freeza (Supressed): 1,060,000
2nd Form Freeza (Full-Power): 1,150,000
3rd Form Freeza: 1,400,000
Final Form Freeza (1%): 1,500,000
Final Form Freeza (2%): 3,000,000

Goku Vs Freeza
Son Goku (Zenkai): 3,000,000
Kaioken x2: 6,000,000
Kaioken x10: 30,000,000
Kaioken x20: 60,000,000
Kaioken x20 Kamehameha: 80,000,000
Genkai Dama: 100,000,000
Final Form Freeza (2%): 3,000,000
Final Form Freeza (4%): 6,000,000
Final Form Freeza (50%): 75,000,000

Super Saiyan Goku Vs Freeza
Son Goku: 3,000,000
SS Son Goku: 150,000,000
Angry Kamehameha: 20,000,000
Freeza (50%, Weakened By The Genkai Dama): 60,000,000
Freeza (100%, Weakened By The Genkai Dama): 120,000,000
Freeza (With Half A Body): 10,000,000

Well, I hope you liked it. If you think I made a mistake, feel free to correct me.

[Perfect]

Refer to: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =6&t=14197

[Gogeta8001]

Okay Thanks!

[Kaboom]

No need; merged with the power levels thread now!

[Gogeta8001]

And I guess I'll make Power Levels for the Andriod-Cell Sagas.

BTW the formulas I'm using are SS= 50x Base, ASS= 1.5x SS, USS= 1.9x SS, SS, SS2= 5x SS (MSS is the same thing as MSS only the user can control their emotions much easier.) And if you didn't know
SS: Super Saiyan
ASS: Ascended Super Saiyan
USS: Ultra Super Saiyan
MSS: Mastered Super Saiyan
SS2: Super Saiyan 2

Trunks Saga

Trunks Vs Freeza & co.
Trunks (Heavily Supressed): 5
Trunks (Full-Power): 3,250,000
SS Trunks: 162,500,000
Freeza's Soliders: Under 1,000
Mecha Freeza (1%): 2,000,000
King Cold: 75,000,000

Other Characters
Son Goku: 3,500,000
SS Son Goku: 175,000,000
Son Gohan: 700,000
Yamcha: 500,000
Tien: 800,000
Krillin: 600,000
Vegeta: 2,900,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 4,000,000

Android Saga

3 Years Later
Son Goku (Post Training): 8,200,000
SS Son Goku (Post Training): 410,000,000
Kamehameha: 425,000,000
SS Son Goku (Heart Disease): 20,000,000
Vegeta: 8,400,000
SS Vegeta: 420,000,000
Big Bang Attack: 430,000,000
Android 19: 120,000,000
Andriod 19 (After Absorbing The Kamehameha): 300,000,000
Dr.Gero: 130,000,000
Piccolo (Post-Training, With Weights): 160,000,000
Piccolo (Post-Training, Without Weights): 170,000,000
Yamcha (Post-Training): 2,000,000
Krillin (Post-Training): 4,000,000
Son Gohan (Post-Training): 6,000,000
Tien (Post-Training): 8,000,000
Trunks (Post-Training): 8,000,000

Vegeta Vs Andriod 18
Vegeta: 8,400,000
SS Vegeta: 420,000,000
Andriod 18: 440,000,000

Cell Saga

Piccolo Vs Imperfect Cell
Piccolo (With Weights): 160,000,000
Piccolo (Merged With Kami, With Weights , Supressed): 260,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 250,000,000
Kamehameha: 270,000,000

Piccolo vs Andriod 17
Piccolo (With Weights, Supressed): 400,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights, Supressed): 420,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights, Full-Power): 450,000,000
Hellzone Grenade: 460,000,000
Andriod 17: 445,000,000

Imperfect Cell Arrives
Imperfect Cell (Post Absorbing Humans): 600,000,000
Piccolo: 450,000,000
Makosen: 500,000,000
Andriod 17: 445,000,000
Andriod 18: 440,000,000
Andriod 16: 600,000,000
Hell Flash: 630,000,000
Semi Perfect Cell: 2,000,000,000
Tien: 8,000,000
Kikoho (Each): 800,000,000

Vegeta and Trunks Vs Semi-Perfect/Perfect Cell
Vegeta (Post RoSaT Training): 42,000,000
SS Vegeta :2,100,000,000
ASS Vegeta :3,150,000,000
Final Flash: 5,000,000,000
Trunks(Post RoSaT Training):40,000,000
SS Trunks 2,000,000,000
ASS Trunks : 3,000,000,000
USS Trunks: 3,800,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell: 2,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Supressed): 3,500,000,000
Perfect Cell (Supressed, Buff): 5,250,000,000

Cell Games Saga

Goku & Gohan Emerge From The Room Of Spirt!
Son Goku (Post Training): 240,000,000
MSS Son Goku (10%): 1,200,000,000
Son Gohan (Post-Training): 250,000,000
MSS Son Gohan (10%): 1,250,000,000

The Cell Games!
Mr.Satan: 9.2
MSS Son Goku (50%): 6,000,000,000
MSS Son Goku (100%): 12,000,000,000
Warp Kamehameha: 20,000,000,000
MSS Son Gohan (50%): 6,250,000,000
MSS Son Gohan (100%): 12,500,000,000
SS2 Son Gohan: 62,500,000,000
Father-Son Kamehameha: 120,000,000
Cell Jr.'s (Each): 7,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Supressed): 6,100,000,000
Perfect Cell (Less Supressed): 12,100,000,000
Perfect Cell (Less Supressed against Gohan): 12,600,000,000
Perfect Cell (Full-Power): 30,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Extremly Buff): 57,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 70,000,000,000
Solar Kamehameha: 130,000,000,000
Solar Kamehameha (Distracted by Vegeta): 100,000,000,000
Vegeta (Post 2nd RoSaT Training): 170,000,000
SS Vegeta: 8,500,000,000
Trunks (Post 2nd RoSaT Training): 160,000,000
SS Trunks: 8,000,000,000
Piccolo (Post RoSaT Training, With Weights): 2,500,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 3,000,000,000
Yamcha: 2,000,000
Krillin: 4,000,000
Tien: 8,000,000

And that's a wrap! Gonna do a Buu Saga Power Level later.

[Gogeta8001]

And finnaly the Buu Saga

Formulas i'm using. SS= 50x Base, SS, SS2= 5x SS, SS3= 7x SS2

Fusion Formulas

Regular Fusion (Fusion Dance): A + B x 80 (A and B have to be at the same power or it won't work)

Potara Fusion: A + B x (Varies). The reason why it varies is because Potara fusion works no matter how far off A and B are. So let's take Goku and Vegeta for an example. Their fairly close in power but Goku is stronger than Vegeta so the fusion multiplier won't be as great (it will probably be around 77x rather than 80x). That's why Goku didn't want to fuse with Mr. Satan because that would have made him weaker since their way far off in power. Also, Goku and Vegeta got a extra 3x in their Fusion due to a "rivarly boost" that wasn't included in the normal fusion technique.

*Note the SS2 transformation can be used from MSS to SS2 or it can go SS straight to SS2

SS: Super Saiyan
MSS: Mastered Super Saiyan
SS2: Super Saiyan 2
SS3: Super Saiyan 3


Great Saiyaman Saga

The Otherworld Tournament
Freeza (1%): 3,000,000
King Cold: 90,000,000
Super Perfect Cell (Supressed): 20,000,000,000
Son Goku (Post-Training): 1,200,000,000
MSS Son Goku: 60,000,000,000
Super Kaioken: 90,000,000,000
Pikkon (With Weights, Supressed): 10,000,000,000
Pikkon (With Weights, Full-Power): 50,000,000,000
Pikkon (Without Weights, Full-Power): 59,000,000,000
Olibu: 700,000,000

7 Years Later
Mr. Satan (Post-Training): 9.3
Videl: 9.4
Son Gohan: 180,000,000
MSS Son Gohan: 9,000,000,000
Son Goten: 3,000,000
SS Son Goten: 150,000,000
Trunks: 3,100,000
SS Trunks: 155,000,000
Vegeta (Post-Training): 750,000,000
SS Vegeta: 37,500,000,000

World Tournament Saga
Son Goku: 1,200,000,000
Vegeta: 750,000,000
Son Gohan: 180,000,000
MSS Son Gohan: 9,000,000,000
SS2 Son Gohan: 45,000,000,000
Son Goten: 3,000,000
SS Son Goten: 150,000,000
Trunks: 3,100,000
SS Trunks: 155,000,000
Piccolo (Post-Training, With Weights): 9,000,000,000
Piccolo (Post-Training, Without Weights): 10,000,000,000
Kaioshin: 4,000,000,000
Kibito: 600,000,000
Kuririn: 900,000
Yamcha: 500,000
Andriod 18: 440,000,000
Videl (Post-Training): 9.5
Mr. Satan: 9.3
Spopvich (Supressed): 9.2
Spopvich (Full-Power): 9.8
Yamu: 9.6

Babidi Saga

Vegeta Vs Pui Pui
Vegeta: 750,000,000
Pui-Pui: 17,000

Goku Vs Yakon
Son Goku: 1,200,000,000
MSS Son Goku: 60,000,000,000
Yakon: 500,000,000

Gohan Vs Dabura
MSS Son Gohan: 9,000,000,000
Dabura: 10,000,000,000

Majin Buu Saga

Majin Buu Awakens!
Majin Buu: 800,000,000,000
Dabura: 10,000,000,000
SS2 Son Gohan: 45,000,000,000
Kaioshin: 4,000,000,000

Goku Vs Majin Vegeta
Son Goku: 1,200,000,000
SS Son Goku: 60,000,000,000
SS2 Son Goku: 300,000,000,000
Majin Vegeta: 1,200,000,000
SS Majin Vegeta: 60,000,000,000
SS2 Majin Vegeta: 300,000,000,000

Majin Vegeta Vs Majin Buu
SS2 Majin Vegeta: 300,000,000,000
Final Explosion: 1,000,000,000,000
Majin Buu: 800,000,000,000
Majin Buu (Angry): 1,200,000,000,000

Goku Vs Majin Buu
Son Goku: 1,200,000,000
SS Son Goku: 60,000,000,000
SS2 Son Goku: 300,000,000,000
SS3 Son Goku: 2,100,000,000,000
Majin Buu: 1,200,000,000,000

Gotenks Vs Majin Buu
Gotenks: 488,000,000
Majin Buu: 1,200,000,000,000

The Buu's Split!
Good Buu: 1,200,000,000,000
Evil Buu: 2,800,000,000,000
Super Buu: 4,000,000,000,000

Gotenks Vs Super Buu
Son Goten (Post RoSaT Training): 15,000,000
Trunks (Post RoSaT Training): 15,000,000
Gotenks: 2,400,000,000
SS Gotenks: 120,000,000,000
SS2 Gotenks: 600,000,000,000 (He never used this form)
SS3 Gotenks: 4,200,000,000,000
Super Buu: 4,000,000,000,000

Mystic Gohan Vs Super Buu
Mystic Gohan: 6,000,000,000,000
Super Buu: 4,000,000,000,000
Super Buu: (SS3 Gotenks + Piccolo): 8,209,000,000,000
Super Buu: (Goten + Trunks + Piccolo): 4,009,030,000,000
Tien: 100,000,000 (Yes, after 7 years of non-stop training, he got this strong)
Kikoho: 10,000,000,000

Vegito Vs Super Buu
Vegito: 450,450,000,000
SS Vegito: 22,522,500,000,000
Super Buu (Gohan + Goten + Trunks + Piccolo, Supressed): 400,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gohan + Goten + Trunks + Piccolo, Full-Power): 10,009,030,000,000

Goku Vs Kid Buu
SS3 Goku: 2,100,000,000,000
SS2 Vegeta: 187,500,000,000
Kid Buu (Supressed): 2,000,000,000,000
Kid Buu (Full-Power): 7,500,000,000,000 (Used when trying to prevent the Genkai Dama)
Super Genkai Dama: 100,000,000,000,000

10 Years Later
Son Goku (Post-Training): 100,000,000,000
Oob (Scared): 1,000,000
Oob (Enraged): 100,000,000,000
Son Gohan: 30,000,000,000 (Got weaker during these 10 Years)
Son Goten (Post Training): 1,000,000,000 (Trained a lot during these 10 years)
Trunks: 300,000,000 (Didn't train as much as Goten)
Pan: 2,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights, Post-Training): 50,000,000,000
Vegeta (Post-Training): 70,000,000,000
Kuririn: 100,000
Andriod 18: 440,000,000

And that ends my power levels for DBZ! Gonna do a GT power level or power levels for the DBZ Movies next.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

BTW the formulas I'm using are SS= 50x Base, ASS= 1.5x SS, USS= 1.9x SS, MSS= 2x SS, SS2= 5x SS.

Formulas i'm using. SS= 50x Base, MSS= 2x SS, SS2= 5x SS, SS3= 7x SS2

I was going to comment on the lists, but stopped once I realized you weren't using the official multipliers and treated the "full power" Super Saiyan as a different form that grants a different boost despite Goku saying he's just using regular SS...so nevermind, carry on.

[Gogeta8001]

Where did he say that?

And there's no official multipliers. The whole SS2 being 2x SS and SS3 being 4x SS2 was just stated in the Super Exciting Guide.

They made a lot of mistakes so I woudn't trust them.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The x50 multiplier stemmed from guidebooks as well, how do you know that wasn't a typo that was just never caught and reprinted over and over again? Maybe Super Saiyan should be x60 or x75, but in order to cover up their mistake, they just ran with that number... as long as it was over x40, it wouldn't really contradict the manga. Anyway, the Super Exciting Guides are official and provide supplemental information to the series. NOTHING is ever perfect, and the humans that compile the information are prone to making mistakes, as did Toriyama when writing the manga itself. That doesn't mean you should discount everything stated because of a couple of errors. Its your choice if you don't want to believe the info or not, but to me it just seems silly to ignore official info that has no contradictions and can work with whats shown in the series, plenty of people in this thread of shown the multipliers have no reason to be tossed out.

Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P10.3, P13.1-4
Context: Goku just achieved Super Saiyan Grade III for the first time.
Gohan: “Ab-absolutely incredible power! You’ll definitely be able to defeat Cell like this!”
[ ]
Goku: “I can’t win like this…Probably not…[ ] With my muscles swelled up like this, my power greatly increases, but it kills my speed. Huge power doesn’t mean anything if I can’t hit my opponent…And it uses up energy at too intense a rate. Balance-wise, regular Super Saiyan is best. I know that well enough…”

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P7.2-7
Tenshinhan: “…Hey, Goku and Gohan were Super Saiyans just now, right? But even so, they were very…how do I say this?...Natural-feeling…”
Piccolo: “…I think there’s no doubt that they were Super Saiyans…However, they’ve trained so that they can exist in that state at an ordinary, everyday level…”
Trunks: “S-so then…When they fight, they’re [perform] an ev-even more tremendous transformation…!”
Vegeta: “Are you an idiot?...You don’t seem to think things over…They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

[Kaboom]

Aside from not sticking to the official multipliers, I do really like your list overall. The top powers escalate at a quick but steady rate rather than suddenly exploding by hundreds of folds at a time with no real reason. Plus you don't buy into the whole "Base Saiyans >>>>> Piccolo" thing!

[Saiga]

Why does Tenshinhan suddenly get to 8,000,000? The other humans are also ridiculously high, but the Shin Kikoho being 800,000,000 each blast is just absurd!

EDIT: And how does Kurilin go from 4,000,000 to 900,000? Yamcha from 2,000,000 to 500,000? Tenshinhan at 100,000,000? That's just insane!

[Gogeta8001]

They got weaker after the Cell Games because all of them (except for Tien) stopped training.

And knowing Tien, all he does is train so 100,000,000 would be a reasonable amount