The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[CatouttaHell]

Yakon vs Cell?

It's not a very popular opinion (especially here) but I'd say Yakon would beat any form of Cell except for possibly SPC.

Dabra believed Base Vegeta and Base Goku had enough power to fill the other half of the Boo Ball that SSjin 2 Gohan filled half of, and it turned out he underestimated them greatly...

Since Yakon was on par with Base Goku (or at least Base Goku suppressed to Base Vegeta's level) he's an absolute beast IMO.

Yajirobe vs (the H-word)?

Yajirobe snaps his neck with the air current he generates by getting into a fighting stance.

Mister Satan is just a regular human, I doubt he'd even be able to do shit against the Bear Bandit.

Okay another one.
M2 Rild vs Majoob

Since Majoob only took him of guard in his base form with a powerful ki blast, how will he fare against a much more powerful Rild who made Goku his bitch?

Super Oob is above SSjin 3 Goku, I don't see how he can possibly lose.

The fight would only be a problem if Rild is in his final form, and even then he can probably just blow the planet up.

[Silkman3003]

What about^

Super 17(post 10x kamehameha+ki blasts from A 18) vs Syn Shenron?

Scenario 1: Both have no knowledge

Scenario 2: Full knowledge for both.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yakon vs Cell?

Cell pwns. I think Yakon's only around base Goku, who's nowhere near Super Saiyan levels of power. Cell wouldn't even need to power up with an aura, so Yakon wouldn't get the opportunity to suck his light energy from him. But if he did, just to show off, then Cell would do what Goku did and overload him with ki to explode him.

Tarble vs. Kuririn from Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

Tarble's a low-level Saiyan runt. Kuririn has far surpassed even the strongest average elite-Saiyan level, so he'd stomp.

[Senzu_Bean]

Daizenshuu 7 says this about Yakon:

Called a demonic beast, he's a monster which even Kaioshin is afraid of.

Of course Kaioshin could be afraid of Yakon itself and not Yakon's power but everyone but the [Super]Saiyans made a big deal out of Yakon, specially Dabra. It really looked like to me that Yakon was supposed to be second strongest guy around besides Dabra.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think it's evident that the reason Kaioshin was so afraid of runts like Pui Pui and Yakon was because he was just super-cautious of anyone associated with Bobbodi. Which isn't a surprise, since his magically weaker father (Bibbidi) wielded enough magic to create a monster (Boo) that killed Kaioshin's older and stronger comrades, and his magically stronger son (Bobbodi) has even the King of the Demons (Dabra) under his control. So he wanted to be safer than sorry by ganging up on Bobbodi's minions rather than one of them potentially getting themselves killed and contributing energy to Boo's resurrection.

[Senzu_Bean]

I don't recall Kaioshin ever been afraid of Pui Pui or Babidi. He was cautious about Babidi but Pui Pui never got a single reaction from Kaioshin other than him warning Vegeta to be careful. On the other hand he was clearly frightened by Yakon as he was with Dabra.

[Hellspawn28]

Okay another one.
M2 Rild vs Majoob

Since Majoob only took him of guard in his base form with a powerful ki blast, how will he fare against a much more powerful Rild who made Goku his bitch?

Majubb was strong enough to fight Super Bebi Vegeta 2 and he almost won. Super Bebi Vegeta 2 is stronger then any form of Rild. Majubb wins easily.

[In Brightest Day]

Tarble vs. Kuririn from Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

Tarble's a low-level Saiyan runt. Kuririn has far surpassed even the strongest average elite-Saiyan level, so he'd stomp.

Tarble was able to survive and escape from both Abo & Kado. Wouldn't that suggest he's probably grown far stronger than a Saiyan elite? Unless Abo & Kado are idiots, which I guess would continue the running theme of Frieza's goons being incompetent power reliant fools.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Unless Abo & Kado are idiots, which I guess would continue the running theme of Freeza's goons being incompetent power reliant fools.

They seem idiots to me!

[CatouttaHell]

I don't recall Kaioshin ever been afraid of Pui Pui or Babidi. He was cautious about Babidi but Pui Pui never got a single reaction from Kaioshin other than him warning Vegeta to be careful. On the other hand he was clearly frightened by Yakon as he was with Dabra.

Kaioshin was worried about Pui-Pui, and Babidi himself was confident he could take the Saiya-jins down.

Even if you just believe Kaioshin was scared for the sake of Vegeta and co, remember he already admitted they were stronger than him from the get-go, he simply didn't know how powerful they were yet.

Base Goku > Yakon > Base Vegeta > Mystery Fighter (Stage 3) > Mystery Fighter (Stage 2) > Pui-Pui > Base Goku (Estimated) > Kaioshin

[Senzu_Bean]

I don't recall Kaioshin ever been afraid of Pui Pui or Babidi. He was cautious about Babidi but Pui Pui never got a single reaction from Kaioshin other than him warning Vegeta to be careful. On the other hand he was clearly frightened by Yakon as he was with Dabra.

Kaioshin was worried about Pui-Pui, and Babidi himself was confident he could take the Saiya-jins down.

Even if you just believe Kaioshin was scared for the sake of Vegeta and co, remember he already admitted they were stronger than him from the get-go, he simply didn't know how powerful they were yet.

I don't agree with that and I would appreciate if you actually address directly whoever disagree with you instead of bad-mouthing them in other sites.

Kibito & Shin are looking for Goku and they only have a vague idea that he is a Super Saiyan and killed Freeza. During the Tenkaichi Budokai they found out that Gohan is also quite powerful himself. That is their only idea of Goku & co. before the events inside of Babidi ship take place and I don't think it contradicts what you quoted.

Someone, please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fox666]

Interestingly Kaioshin only actually recognized that the saiyans are superior to him because of the Super Saiyan 2:

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.5
Context: after Vegeta and Goku talk about Dabra not being that great
Kaioshin: “Un-unbelievable. Is this ‘Super Saiyan’ thing really this great?...Come to think of it, it was quite hard to stop Son Gohan from moving after he became a Super Saiyan…And even that might not have been his full power…”

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…”

Of course Kaioshin doesn't seems to know the difference from regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2, so he calls it just Super Saiyan.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Tarble vs. Kuririn from Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

Tarble's a low-level Saiyan runt. Kuririn has far surpassed even the strongest average elite-Saiyan level, so he'd stomp.

Tarble was able to survive and escape from both Abo & Kado. Wouldn't that suggest he's probably grown far stronger than a Saiyan elite? Unless Abo & Kado are idiots, which I guess would continue the running theme of Freeza's goons being incompetent power reliant fools.

Yeah, Abo and Kado could've been idiots and relied too much on their scouters. They're just remnants of Freeza's empire, after all. Or they could've been cocky, held back against Tarble, dropped their guard and/or escape. There are more conclusions to come than just the single-minded "Tarble survived and escaped from Abo & Kado in an unseen clash; therefore he's really strong".

Of course Kaioshin doesn't seems to know the difference from regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2, so he calls it just Super Saiyan.

Well, Goku was the first one to name the Super Saiyan stages (which became the official guidebook terms for them). Beforehand, it was just "beyond Super Saiyan" or "a Super Saiyan who has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall", with Gohan himself just naming Super Saiyan 2 simply "Super Saiyan" when he transformed during his match with Kibito.

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?”
Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!”
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”
Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…”
Goku: “…Stop it?”

Also, is it just me, or is it uncharacteristically show-offy for Gohan to just go SSj2, an unknown (to Kibito) level above what Kibito has asked to transform into, right after he'd been iffy about doing so and only proceeded to because of Piccolo? It just seems to be a contrived plot device, for drama and an excuse for Spopovich and Yamu to absorb his ki. It also appears to be coupled with another contrived (IMO) plot device from an out-of-character action: Piccolo backing down in his match against Kaioshin. I'm kind of going off-topic here, but I think it was uncharacteristic of Piccolo because, even though he has God inside him, he didn't appear to change that much after the fusion (practically going back to his normal self after his first fight with Cell) and I don't see him just throwing a fight before he's even got a chance to test his opponent's power on the basis of "He can read my mind (even though other non-god guys like Goku can do so), therefore he could be the Dai Kaioshin, so I don't want to disrespect him by potentially hurting him in a fight he entered into in a first place". It just seems to be more of Toriyama's tiredness and weakening in the story around this point in DB coming through.

Anyway, back on-topic. I don't think any of them, in-universe, seem to know the visual difference between regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2. Goku and Vegeta apparently didn't question why Gohan wasn't in Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra, with Goku and Vegeta only respectively commenting that he'd been slacking off and was stronger when he was a kid.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

And remember that they were specifically talking about his strength when he fought Cell, his anger and how Gohan seemed unable to summon upon that power from rage now.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…
Note (via Savage): I think it's worth mentioning here that Goku didn't cite what had very recently happened at the Budokai (SSJ2), but instead talks about Gohan's strength when he faced Cell. So, Gohan's full power was the issue here, not Gohan's access to his strongest transformation.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Furthermore, Bobbodi said that he barely saw the difference when Goku went from SSj and SSj2 before he fought Boo.

[Hellspawn28]

Captain Ginyu, Jeice, Burter, and Recoome vs. Commander Nezi, Bizu, Ribet, and Natt

Rules:

- Equal strength
- Captain Ginyu can't steal bodies.
- The Sigma Force can't fuse into one

Which elite mercenary team wins?

[mysticboy]

Captain Ginyu, Jeice, Burter, and Recoome vs. Commander Nezi, Bizu, Ribet, and Natt

Rules:

- Equal strength
- Captain Ginyu can't steal bodies.
- The Sigma Force can't fuse into one

Which elite mercenary team wins?

The Ginyu Force would stomp if Guldo was there.

[Fox666]

Anyway, back on-topic. I don't think any of them, in-universe, seem to know the visual difference between regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2. Goku and Vegeta apparently didn't question why Gohan wasn't in Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra, with Goku and Vegeta only respectively commenting that he'd been slacking off and was stronger when he was a kid.

I suppose they can tell how strong he is based on his Super Saiyan form, if they compare to his previous self.

But they can tell the difference clearly (even if we can't). I suppose the Ki might also be different, tempestuous or something. It appears to me that they don't care much about the Super Saiyan 2. One example is when Goku was explaining it to Babidi, and Babidi replied "Vegeta did the same" or something on that line.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Anyway, back on-topic. I don't think any of them, in-universe, seem to know the visual difference between regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2. Goku and Vegeta apparently didn't question why Gohan wasn't in Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra, with Goku and Vegeta only respectively commenting that he'd been slacking off and was stronger when he was a kid.

I suppose they can tell how strong he is based on his Super Saiyan form, if they compare to his previous self.

But they can tell the difference clearly (even if we can't). I suppose the Ki might also be different, tempestuous or something. It appears to me that they don't care much about the Super Saiyan 2. One example is when Goku was explaining it to Babidi, and Babidi replied "Vegeta did the same" or something on that line.

Perhaps power-wise, they call tell whether or not someone should be in their regular Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 form, but I'm unsure about whether they can visually. As I said, Goku and Vegeta apparently didn't question why Gohan wasn't in Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra.

And I don't think that they don't care much about Super Saiyan 2. It's obviously important, otherwise they wouldn't use it. Bobbodi was just saying that Vegeta transformed, just like Goku (they share the same traits of SSj2 and are about the same power), but he still died.

[Fox666]

Even if we can't see a logical reason for not transforming in Super Saiyan 2, it appears the characters does.

It wasn't just Gohan who didn't transform in Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura or Boo. Gotenks didn't used it either. Not to mention Goku and Vegeta inside Evil Boo. I guess it is not different from Grade II which Goku, Vegeta and the others discarded it during the Cell Game.

It appears there is some mental stress and energy consumption regarding these forms. I can at least tell why Gohan might not like it since last time he used it in a fight the result was his father dying.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Even if we can't see a logical reason for not transforming in Super Saiyan 2, it appears the characters does.

It wasn't just Gohan who didn't transform in Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura or Boo. Gotenks didn't used it either. Not to mention Goku and Vegeta inside Evil Boo. I guess it is not different from Grade II which Goku, Vegeta and the others discarded it during the Cell Game.

It appears there is some mental stress and energy consumption regarding these forms. I can at least tell why Gohan might not like it since last time he used it in a fight the result was his father dying.

It still doesn't make sense within the story. I really don't want to get into another debate about Gohan's SSj/SSj2 in the Boo arc.

Gotenks didn't use it against Boo because he deliberately wanted to "look cool" and show off against Boo, which he did effectively with the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack. That was good enough to blow Boo to smithereens, so there's no need to use SSj2. Not to mention that SSj3 was the big thing that he wanted to hold off using until the last minute, so regular SSj and Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack would be enough of a cool time-staller.

Goku and Vegeta, for whatever reason, transformed into only regular Super Saiyan, but perhaps they didn't really plan on fighting Boo. Goku immediately tried to destroy Boo from the inside. And while you mention SSj2, you forget that he didn't use SSj3 either. And that wasn't about how long it took for him to transform or something like that, since most of the time, long power-ups transformations are for dramatic purposes. See Goku's Kaio-ken x3 the first time against Vegeta. He takes a while to charge it up, but later when Vegeta is charging up his Galick Gun, he instantly turns it on.

Same with Goku's SSj3. He takes a long while to transform the first time we see it against Fat Boo, but later when he fights Kid Boo, he instantly turns it on.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

In the manga, SSJ2 (& 3) always had lightning. Also, IIRC, Daizenshuu mentions that Gohan became SSJ2 only against Cell, Kibito, and Broli.