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Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:12 pm

I dunno. It still makes sense to me if you go with the somewhat nastier, more underhanded explanation that God lied when he said he'd only be the source of the power-up. Even at the end of the Cell arc, Piccolo up and decides he's just going to live at God's palace, a place he would previously have loathed to visit, in order to spend all of his time with Mr. Popo instead of the one person he sacrificed his life for: Gohan. And seven years later we see he's still constantly giving advice on godhood to his successor.

My perspective is almost what TeamFourStar did with Nail: "Oh, I'm in your head, but I'll probably go away... or will I?" I'm almost making a joke out of it as Toriyama probably never even had this thought, but, at the same time, there is just so much evidence that God just totally possessed Piccolo that it's almost laughably cruel. He got a new, young body that was much more powerful and was able to give up all of his godly responsibilities yet still pull the strings in an administrative role! Piccolo just got duped. It was probably God who planted the thought in his head to assimilate with him. And then, just to completely sell the lie, he added in all this indecision about giving up his individuality, so Piccolo wouldn't get wise. :lol:
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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Fox666 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:16 pm

Piccolo still gained all knowledge of Nail and Kami which should affect his decisions and behavior.

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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:31 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:I dunno. It still makes sense to me if you go with the somewhat nastier, more underhanded explanation that God lied when he said he'd only be the source of the power-up. Even at the end of the Cell arc, Piccolo up and decides he's just going to live at God's palace, a place he would previously have loathed to visit, in order to spend all of his time with Mr. Popo instead of the one person he sacrificed his life for: Gohan. And seven years later we see he's still constantly giving advice on godhood to his successor.

My perspective is almost what TeamFourStar did with Nail: "Oh, I'm in your head, but I'll probably go away... or will I?" I'm almost making a joke out of it as Toriyama probably never even had this thought, but, at the same time, there is just so much evidence that God just totally possessed Piccolo that it's almost laughably cruel. He got a new, young body that was much more powerful and was able to give up all of his godly responsibilities yet still pull the strings in an administrative role! Piccolo just got duped. It was probably God who planted the thought in his head to assimilate with him. And then, just to completely sell the lie, he added in all this indecision about giving up his individuality, so Piccolo wouldn't get wise. :lol:
I don't think God would just lie like that. Or maybe it was just a little white lie that he didn't think would matter much, as Piccolo would still mostly be Piccolo. Like God, Nail didn't appear to really affect Piccolo that much, with the only apparent changes being that his almost mentor-like relationship with Dende (perhaps this was part of the reason he decided to stay at God's Palace, maybe to coach Dende as his, or God inside him's, successor) and respectful relationship with the Great Elder remained. I think it was maybe an unexpected effect of two split beings returning to one whole being.

And besides, why would Piccolo want to live with Gohan? I don't see Chi-Chi letting him anyway. I think Piccolo just wanted to stay at God's Palace because, not only God inside him feeling like it was home to him, but that it was much more convenient and stable than living in the mountains. Beforehand, Piccolo didn't really have a choice. He used to be Piccolo Daimao, the evil to God's good, bent on world domination, so a solitary life planning ways to do so and kill Goku would've suited him fine. Now, he's changed and is less asocial.
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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:43 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:Like God, Nail didn't appear to really affect Piccolo that much
But hasn't the thrust of this conversation been about Piccolo doing things that seem to be entirely out-of-character for him, but which happen to be much more in-character for God? So why so steadfastly assert that God did not have an impact on him? All joking about secretly evil divine machinations and possessions aside, what other plausible explanation is there besides Piccolo taking on a pretty large portion of God's personality?
And besides, why would Piccolo want to live with Gohan?
I never said live with Gohan. But he couldn't have chosen a farther away place from him unless he went into outer space. If he was to be less asocial as you claim, why is he choosing to stay with the two people that actual Piccolo never had a connection with? Wow. Just realized that. Both of them are people closely connected to Piccolo's assimilated beings. Now it's all starting to come together! God didn't have any machinations from the get-go. It was only after he got inside and found Nail that the two conspired to plot a coup, and only with the force of those two personalities combined were they able to subjugate Piccolo to their wills! 8)
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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:48 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:Like God, Nail didn't appear to really affect Piccolo that much
But hasn't the thrust of this conversation been about Piccolo doing things that seem to be entirely out-of-character for him, but which happen to be much more in-character for God? So why so steadfastly assert that God did not have an impact on him? All joking about secretly evil divine machinations and possessions aside, what other plausible explanation is there besides Piccolo taking on a pretty large portion of God's personality?
It didn't say that God didn't have an impact on him. I'm saying that I don't think he had as much of an impact on him as you guys are saying. Some people (not necessarily referring to anyone on this forum) are genuinely saying that, after the merging, it was as if Piccolo was more like God than Piccolo, despite Piccolo, after Goku naming him "Kamiccolo", telling him, "Don't merge the names too! I'm mostly Piccolo anyway. Just call me that."
Gaffer Tape wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:And besides, why would Piccolo want to live with Gohan?
I never said live with Gohan. But he couldn't have chosen a farther away place from him unless he went into outer space. If he was to be less asocial as you claim, why is he choosing to stay with the two people that actual Piccolo never had a connection with? Wow. Just realized that. Both of them are people closely connected to Piccolo's assimilated beings. Now it's all starting to come together! God didn't have any machinations from the get-go. It was only after he got inside and found Nail that the two conspired to plot a coup, and only with the force of those two personalities combined were they able to subjugate Piccolo to their wills! 8)
OK then, my mistake. But I don't think Piccolo really thought or cared about the distance when they can both just fly over there. It's just a convenient location that, due to God inside him, he's grown comfortable with, and it's better than knocking about in the mountains.

Just to clarify, I'm not necessarily and wholly disagreeing with you. I think Nail and God had an influence on Piccolo. Just not as much as some people claim.
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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:53 pm

Well, I'm not sure how seriously I am taking this. I am mostly treating it as a comical "alternate character interpretation," but I do have to say that the more I consider it, the more it makes sense. It's certainly not a "canonical" explanation, but given Piccolo's behavior in the Buu arc, it honestly makes more sense than anything else.

And of course God would say that to Goku when called Kamiccolo. He had to keep his coup a secret. What else would he say? "Just call me God because I've totally taken over Piccolo's brain, and you'll never see that sap again. Muahahahaha! Er. Ahem. I mean, just call me Piccolo. I'm mostly him anyway... I swear." :wink:
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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Michsi » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:36 am

Some people (not necessarily referring to anyone on this forum) are genuinely saying that, after the merging, it was as if Piccolo was more like God than Piccolo, despite Piccolo, after Goku naming him "Kamiccolo", telling him, "Don't merge the names too! I'm mostly Piccolo anyway. Just call me that."

What I'm saying is that there are situations where his behaviour is closer to that of Kami. The greatest example is, as I have already pointed out, his attitude towards King Kai compared to Kaioshin. And surprisingly the Daizenshu 7 seems to back this up. And the Kaioshin himself sorta hinted at this.
I have no doubt that he is mostly Piccolo, but there is a difference in personality and I don't think it's subtle.
With Nail, there was no change whatsoever, all he gained was memories and power. His merger with Kami however, is an entirely different story.

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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Senzu_Bean » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:54 am

I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that by the time Cell was defeated Piccolo was mostly not Piccolo at all and a completely different character. Before Piccolo merged (Metafusion, right?) with either Nail or his other half he didn't really care by anyone besides himself and Gohan. After merged with Nail he started to care about Dende and he became more calm and tranquil. Looking at his facial expressions before and after is like day and night, in my opinion. His demoniac look is no longer present. Then after merged with his other half his character really changed. His attitude towards his fellow warriors changed to the point I would say he actually cares about them. Heck, he even cares about the people of the Earth when Majin Buu is killing them. That is why after the Cell Games I don't think it's unreasonable to Piccolo stay at the Heavenly Realm. There is more up there to his currently self than there is on Earth.

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Re: Piccolo lost power during the Majin Boo saga?

Post by Fox666 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:05 am

Piccolo cared when Freeza killed Dende. He cared about Goku during his fight with No.19, among other occasions. At the point Piccolo arrivel on Namek he was already a good guy.

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