Did Vegeta eventualy reach SSJ3?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What do you think? Did he reach it at the end of Z/manga? Maybe he had it in GT, but didn't get the chance to show it? Or even at his fight with Goku in DBO?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't think he ever reached Super Saiyan 3. He had opportunities to unveil Super Saiyan 3 in GT if he had it, but never did.

[Saiga]

In canon? Yes.

In GT? No, he's not Goku. He was only allowed to reach SS4 to give Goku a power up (come on, SS4 Gogeta was only a palette swap of SS4 Goku).

[TheDevilsCorpse]

(come on, SS4 Gogeta was only a palette swap of SS4 Goku).

...his hair spiked differently...

[Son_Gohan]

It's doubtful. I think his way of training is what restricts his potential.

Toriyama did mention there being a limit to physical training in the Super Exciting Guide, which is really the only thing Vegeta shows to devote himself to. There's no indication at the end of him broadening his method of training. Therefore I don't see much changing in those 10 years. He wouldn't be able to reach SSj3 or even come close.

[Saiga]

(come on, SS4 Gogeta was only a palette swap of SS4 Goku).

...his hair spiked differently...

It did? I couldn't notice. On the other hand, SS4 Goku's hair spikes differently from time to time anyway.

[DBZ Mick]

Goku only reached it in the afterlife, so somehow I doubt Vegeta did...

[Mystic Gohan]

Nope. Vegeta doesn't unfortunately get the same oppotunities as goku to go to afterlife and have nearly limitless energy and stamina, but you know whatever.

[Kaboom]

My pet theory is that Super Saiyan 3 is something beyond what is normally feasible for a living mortal Saiyan, and requires special circumstances to "unlock." Goku achieved it while sporting a heavenly body in the afterlife, and Gotenks achieved it by being a magical Fusion who can seemingly pull power out of thin air.

So unless Vegeta has something similar going for him to generate all that extra power and push him beyond the normal limits of his own body, I don't think he'd be able to attain Super Saiyan 3 on his own.

[Krakabeast]

So unless Vegeta has something similar going for him to generate all that extra power and push him beyond the normal limits of his own body

His undying saiya-jin pride and arrogance?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It did? I couldn't notice. On the other hand, SS4 Goku's hair spikes differently from time to time anyway.

Gogeta's top spikes go upward:


Goku's go crazy:


These are from Budokai 3, but its the same in the series...though Goku's spikes are hardly ever consistent, its generally the same idea behind it.

[SonGokuh]

I think he could have achieved it considering that he knew that it existed and what it looked like, after some time.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He had opportunities to unveil Super Saiyan 3 in GT if he had it, but never did.

Yes but Vegeta & Gohan didn't go SSJ2, and Goten & Trunks didn't use Fusion... There are a lot of things that we saw before, but didn't see in GT to have Goku beat everyone.

[hleV]

I'm certain he did. In fact, I believe that at the end of DB he already had SSJ3 achieved. IHMO Vegeta wouldn't have entered the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai if he didn't think he could have won.

[Piccolo Daimao]

No, I believe that he saw the disadvantages of SSj3 when alive from Goku vs. Kid Boo. If Goku couldn't even charge up enough power to finish off Kid Boo (who was roughly even with him) in one final attack, then it's inherently flawed. I don't think that SSj3 can ever be mastered, since it's a form that's best suited for when you're dead or a magical fusion, and using it when alive goes beyond its limits. Only regular SSj can be mastered.

So, no, I don't think Vegeta eventually reached SSj3. I don't think he even tried, but either way, I believe it's impossible to do so unless you're dead or a magical fusion.

Basically what Kaboom said.

[Saiga]

That theory always seemed a little flawed to me - why would the form even exist if only dead/magical people can obtain it and they can't even use it properly?

[Piccolo Daimao]

That theory always seemed a little flawed to me - why would the form even exist if only dead/magical people can obtain it and they can't even use it properly?

I don't understand. It's simply a form that is beyond the limits of a living mortal Saiyan, but within that of a dead Saiyan or a magical fusion consisting of two Saiyans that are even stronger than the sum of their parts. Goku still retained it because he'd achieved it when he was dead, but it went beyond his normal capabilities when he was back in his living body.

And dead Goku and Gotenks could use it properly. Only the latter had it drain his time limit.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku in Movie 13 could also use it properly, ande Movie 13 is placed some time after Boo arc. Alive Goku in Boo arc couldn't use it properly because his alive body wasn't used to it, but it seems that after some time, he managed to use it properly.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Goku in Movie 13 could also use it properly, ande Movie 13 is placed some time after Boo arc. Alive Goku in Boo arc couldn't use it properly because his alive body wasn't used to it, but it seems that after some time, he managed to use it properly.

Many people don't include DBZ Movie #13 in their manga canon, which is what we're (or should be) talking about. Arguably, there are other things wrong in that movie, like SSj3 Goku appearing stronger than Ultimate Gohan and SSj3 Gotenks.

The movies aren't necessarily supposed to make much sense or fit into the manga canon anyway. The DB movies just take the events of the main series and then mix it up. Almost none of them fit into the manga canon timeline. We have all kinds of Saiyans coming out of the woodwork, which contradicts the established plot point that only Goku, Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa were left after Freeza's killing of the Saiyans (and when Trunks becomes a SSj, Vegeta seems damn sure that there can't be any other Saiyans but him, Goku and Gohan). Goku temporarily transforms into some kind of pseudo-Super Saiyan in DBZ Movie #4. Dende's God of Earth in DBZ Movie #6. And so on.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Many people don't include DBZ Movie #13 in their manga canon, which is what we're (or should be) talking about. Arguably, there are other things wrong in that movie, like SSj3 Goku appearing stronger than Ultimate Gohan and SSj3 Gotenks.

The movies aren't necessarily supposed to make much sense or fit into the manga canon anyway. The DB movies just take the events of the main series and then mix it up. Almost none of them fit into the manga canon timeline. We have all kinds of Saiyans coming out of the woodwork, which contradicts the established plot point that only Goku, Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa were left after Freeza's killing of the Saiyans (and when Trunks becomes a SSj, Vegeta seems damn sure that there can't be any other Saiyans but him, Goku and Gohan). Goku temporarily transforms into some kind of pseudo-Super Saiyan in DBZ Movie #4. Dende's God of Earth in DBZ Movie #6. And so on.

I also don't include the movies in my manga canon, and I'm full aware of their incosistences. However, I use anime-only elements if they make sence, and Movie 13 having Goku using SSJ3 properly makes sence, at least for me.

@TheDevilsCorpse Is there a SSJ4 Vegeta pic like the Goku & Gogeta you posted? They look awesome.